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Old 05-17-2006, 08:54 AM #1
BunkerBomb#o1
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Markup % question

Ok, i've been in the paintball industry for about 2 years now and I always thought stores owners and online stores made a killing off high end guns. Recently though I discovered that they aren't making as much as they seem to be. What is the general percentage of markup on high end markers? How much would a store owner make off of a $1700 dollar gun as compared to like a $1300, would the profit be about the same or do they make more $$ the higher the msrp is?
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:03 AM #2
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If you've been in the industry for two years, wouldn't you already know?

As it's been said 1 x 10^9999999999999999999999 times before, the chance of a store owner telling you their markup (which would require them to basically tell you what their wholesale price is...and most distributors would have a problem with that), is similar to the number above except it would look more like 1 / (10^9999999999999999999999 )%.

If you actually get REAL numbers from someone who has a REAL store, then I would buy a lottery ticket because you have the magic touch.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:26 AM #3
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Let's put it this way--gun sales aren't what keeps the lights on in a paintball store. They're just a way to get you to buy paint and air.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:34 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy
Let's put it this way--gun sales aren't what keeps the lights on in a paintball store. They're just a way to get you to buy paint and air.

thats why i love the ions even after the price drop--you don't make much on the gun (and god knows it comes back for repairs) but it gives guys a very affordable marker that will throw alot more paint
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:21 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy
Let's put it this way--gun sales aren't what keeps the lights on in a paintball store. They're just a way to get you to buy paint and air.
Exactly. People whine about guns being marked up ridiculous %, but in reality, a bottle of lube or a barrel plug is our highest marked up item.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:59 AM #6
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It's all about the paint in paintball. That's why I don't sell guns or even have a pro shop, it is not worth the headaches, kids and parents can cause. If I had a dollar for every time I had a kid bring me back a gun that had the internals in improper order I would be rich. I love paintball and paintballers but players who refuse to learn their gun are a pain in the rear. I can tell you from a retail perspective...not in the paintball industry...retail stores try to average %25, this means that some products depending upon price may be marked up at %8 and some at %40. There is no solid guidline in retail, only a bottom line average. My boss was just lecturing me the other day because my gross dollars rock, but my markup percentage sucks. What can I say, I like hooking the customer up with a good deal.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:02 PM #7
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Why not charge a dollar for every time you have a kid bring back a gun that had the internals in improper order. That is where money can be made....service, repairs, paint, airfills and service.

With wholesale prices what they are on guns and big ticket equipment the only way to make money is on paint and service. Which is why I do not understand why so many fields ARE NOT fpo.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:12 PM #8
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Why don't you ask the guys in your sig? ;-)
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:07 AM #9
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My field isn't FPO because I don't care about the $$$ as long as I get the money back I pay NSERA every year, it's all good, paintball and owning a field is just a hobby for me. I just want to help the growth of the sport.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:16 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanPaintballOwner
My field isn't FPO because I don't care about the $$$ as long as I get the money back I pay NSERA every year, it's all good, paintball and owning a field is just a hobby for me. I just want to help the growth of the sport.
Man, every time I hear somebody say that, I cringe. The hobby fields and stores make it difficult for the professional stores and fields to turn a profit.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:45 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy
Man, every time I hear somebody say that, I cringe. The hobby fields and stores make it difficult for the professional stores and fields to turn a profit.
The only thing I will say about non-fpo stores is this.

As a player, a current business owner with a seperate full time job, and a future field owner (anyone selling 3 acres in marysville ohio, please pm me ), I think there is definatly an attraction to fields that are not FPO.

What needs done, however, is a $10 fee to bring your own paint. Even with that, I love having the chance to burn my old tourney paint. This way, everyone is happy. I'd much rather pay $10 to bring my old mixed up paint than $50 for a case.

Thats not to say I don't support or purposely don't go to fields that are FPO, but as long as money is changing hands I don't see a problem with BYOP.
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Old 05-18-2006, 02:37 PM #12
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I don't have a problem with BYOP fields, in fact I think they're needed for the stores to survive. The fields around here do the BYOP surcharge for open games, and FPO for special events and closed games. It seems to work well.

What I have issues with are the fields and stores that aren't being built as full-fledged businesses, but rather an discount outlet for the hobbiest--the guys that sell things for just slightly above cost.

I can understand the want to hook friends up or just have a place to play, but in the long term it hurts paintball more than it helps. Margins get cut to nothing and eventually the guy who makes his living in paintball has to move on to something else to cover his mortgage. Additionally, the full-time businesses are more likely to reinvest in their businesses, giving the customer more value for their dollar. Who wouldn't want to spend an extra $10-20 to play on turf or on a lighted field? For that matter, wouldn't you rather your local pro shop carried a larger selection of markers that you could look at before you buy?
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Old 05-18-2006, 02:47 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy
I don't have a problem with BYOP fields, in fact I think they're needed for the stores to survive. The fields around here do the BYOP surcharge for open games, and FPO for special events and closed games. It seems to work well.

What I have issues with are the fields and stores that aren't being built as full-fledged businesses, but rather an discount outlet for the hobbiest--the guys that sell things for just slightly above cost.

I can understand the want to hook friends up or just have a place to play, but in the long term it hurts paintball more than it helps. Margins get cut to nothing and eventually the guy who makes his living in paintball has to move on to something else to cover his mortgage. Additionally, the full-time businesses are more likely to reinvest in their businesses, giving the customer more value for their dollar. Who wouldn't want to spend an extra $10-20 to play on turf or on a lighted field? For that matter, wouldn't you rather your local pro shop carried a larger selection of markers that you could look at before you buy?
Absolutely, which I think is the worst part about online business.

Take a PM6 for example.. I'm kinda interested in getting on.. But I've never seen one, never shot one, never held one, nothing.. I'd personally rather see it and feel it and even pay more for it for that assurance to buy it in person
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:10 PM #14
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Most people come in our store and ask tons of questions hold the guns and then go home and order off the internet. Most small businesses cannot afford to keep high end markers in stock. We look up prices for people, chase down parts and go the extra 20 miles just to find out a couple of days later that they bought it on the internet after they told us to order it for them. Now we make people pay up front.
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:35 PM #15
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Well I certainly understand not ordering parts/markers without payment, but I would hope as courtesy and good business practice that you still answer questions and allow them to touch the merchandise etc.

I have been to places where shop owners have a genrally bad attitude, and I wouldn't support them for that reason.
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:45 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanPaintballOwner
It's all about the paint in paintball. That's why I don't sell guns or even have a pro shop, it is not worth the headaches, kids and parents can cause. If I had a dollar for every time I had a kid bring me back a gun that had the internals in improper order I would be rich. I love paintball and paintballers but players who refuse to learn their gun are a pain in the rear. I can tell you from a retail perspective...not in the paintball industry...retail stores try to average %25, this means that some products depending upon price may be marked up at %8 and some at %40. There is no solid guidline in retail, only a bottom line average. My boss was just lecturing me the other day because my gross dollars rock, but my markup percentage sucks. What can I say, I like hooking the customer up with a good deal.

Yea, the store/field iwork at used to fix guns for free. But after 3 hours, they would sitll have nothing accomplished, and all the guns still sitting in the tech room waiting to be fixed. And whoever jsut fixed those guns for 3 hours made his money, but the store got nothing for it.


my suggestion is charge like $5 everytime you make a repair on a gun (including order of internals) say they have a broken noid, charge them the retail price of a noid, and charge $5 extra.


its a way to even out so to say.
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:48 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramit
Most people come in our store and ask tons of questions hold the guns and then go home and order off the internet.
Ah, but those can turn out to be more profitable than selling the gun. Our local stores offer free labor on guns sold through their store, otherwise it's $25 per hour. I'd recommend a $25/hr bench fee for repairs/installs with parts bought from you or $35/hr for parts bought elsewhere. With that kind of pricing, it won't belong before you make more off that Ion than you would have if they'd bought it from you.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:19 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike
Well I certainly understand not ordering parts/markers without payment, but I would hope as courtesy and good business practice that you still answer questions and allow them to touch the merchandise etc.

I have been to places where shop owners have a genrally bad attitude, and I wouldn't support them for that reason.

We still answer all questions with a smile on our face and allow them to touch the merchandise . And yes we also charge to repair the guns they just bought off of the internet. It is just annoying hearing them say how much they are supporting us but yet still buying off the internet instead of locally.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:55 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy
I don't have a problem with BYOP fields, in fact I think they're needed for the stores to survive. The fields around here do the BYOP surcharge for open games, and FPO for special events and closed games. It seems to work well.

What I have issues with are the fields and stores that aren't being built as full-fledged businesses, but rather an discount outlet for the hobbiest--the guys that sell things for just slightly above cost.

I can understand the want to hook friends up or just have a place to play, but in the long term it hurts paintball more than it helps. Margins get cut to nothing and eventually the guy who makes his living in paintball has to move on to something else to cover his mortgage. Additionally, the full-time businesses are more likely to reinvest in their businesses, giving the customer more value for their dollar. Who wouldn't want to spend an extra $10-20 to play on turf or on a lighted field? For that matter, wouldn't you rather your local pro shop carried a larger selection of markers that you could look at before you buy?

I think your very wrong, I don't sell any equipment and I live in a small town area where the majority of all paintballers were outlaw balling before I seperated from the military and opened the field. I simply offer the players a place to play and they in turn by their paint from me/ or the local shop --35 miles away-- So I think by saying my field is hurting the sport, you are so wrong!!! My player base grows every month, but not with players who are verterans of the sport but new players. I am growing the next generation of players, field owners with attitudes like yours piss me off! You ever met the average joe and asked him, "Have you ever played paintball before?" He responds: No, it is to expensive. I solve that problem, get that guy hooked, and next thing you know he is showing up in your shop to buy your equipment and playing at your field to have better competition and field quality. Sum of the story is you should change your outlook on fields like my own. However, everyone is titled to have their own opinions, I just thought I would put my 2 sense in. Havn't been playing paintball for 10 years to have a buisness that hurts the sport.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:59 PM #20
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1 More thing, my field, also takes field trips to other fields. DO you know if there are any established paintball fields in Terre Haute IN?
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:04 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramit
We still answer all questions with a smile on our face and allow them to touch the merchandise . And yes we also charge to repair the guns they just bought off of the internet. It is just annoying hearing them say how much they are supporting us but yet still buying off the internet instead of locally.
Something occurred to me while reading your post. You and I both know how much they are actually saving, you and I both know that if you charge $25-$35/hr teching these guns you will easily more than make up for that loss.


I think its time for me to go ahead and pay for private store/field owner access, because I feel silly dancing around these issues..
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