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Old 05-13-2006, 05:42 PM #43
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im done in the politics thread because it makes me too angry
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Old 05-13-2006, 05:43 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobkiller123
because they were being persicuted and punsihed and wanted a way out where the could have their belifes and be free an not have to worry about anyone punishing them for it, anyways yea me > you lol
Dur Dur Dur

You seem to go from thread to thread saying people are wrong but never providing any "facts" to back up anything you say.

So me and the rest of the ST politics forum > you.
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Old 05-13-2006, 05:45 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobkiller123
im done in the politics thread
Glad to hear it.
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:21 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scumquat1
Why don't you take 30 seconds and re-read what I said. Then tell me where I stated that I want to take away any of the nutty perfesser's rights. You really should try to stop making things up out of whole cloth. It makes you look silly.
Oh please, you said he's a tremendous hypocrite for paying taxes in America and and criticizing it at the same time. This means you are either for him leaving America, or stop paying taxes and recieving benefits from a state-supported institution all because he dislike's American foriegn policy. Using my incredible powers of inference, I deduced you support him leaving America over not paying taxes. But no really, I'm asking for forgiveness for making such an absurd inference. Do the christian thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scumquat1
My God, you have a lot of trouble with reading comprehension. He's not just criticizing some politician for ****ing something up somewhere somehow. He's criticizing everything about this country and everything that forms its foundation. That being the case, he is a tremendous hypocrite for staying here and supporting what he thinks is the world's biggest problem: America.
Am I typing in english? Did you not understand what I JUST said? He's criticizing the way America's been interfering in the middle east and how many problems our policies have caused. He's not advocating the destruction of the country, he's advocating a change in policy and its his right as an American to say such things. I don't even know what your arguing. Do you want him to stop excersizing his 1st amendment constitutional right? Do you want him to stop paying taxes and taking state money before he criticizes anymore? It's ironic that you object to his abhorrence of American foriegn policy and him excersizing his rights to criticize the government, yet where you take offense to his statements is where you somehow read that he hates the foundations of American society; now, are we talking about the same foundations of freedom of speech and ability to criticize your government, here?
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:38 PM #47
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link please. Patriot missles are anti-aircraft missles. And please define what you mean by "newspapers" There are a LOT of newspapers in the world.
sorry, tomohawks then. to see how they missed youll have to buy farenheit 9/11. i have a feeling u dont like michael moore but he does report the truth sometimes.

for the air war, normally i would tell you to go **** off and do your own reading. but i dont blame you for not knowing, everytime ive read the story its been on page 18 of the A section.


BYLINE: ROBERT BURNS; AP Military Writer

DATELINE: WASHINGTON

BODY:
The Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps have flown thousands of missions in support of U.S. ground troops in Iraq this fall with little attention back home, including attacks by unmanned Predator aircraft armed with Hellfire missiles, military records show.

News reports and the public have focused mainly on ground action by the Army and Marines, but a variety of U.S. aircraft are striking targets in Iraq daily. They include frontline Air Force and Navy fighters as well as Marine Corps attack planes. American and allied refueling, transport and surveillance planes also are flying.

AP news. if u search lexis nexis there are hundreds of articles.
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:41 PM #48
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I thought everyone knew it was common practice for air support of the ground troops?
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:32 PM #49
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ok, i should have pasted the whole article.

anyways, these are not missions related to ground troop movement. these are airstrikes on random houses suspected of housing terrorists. thats all. or blanket bombings of a village. if you think air support is anything but that then i got a sandbox to sell you in florida.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:04 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaRama
ok, i should have pasted the whole article.

anyways, these are not missions related to ground troop movement. these are airstrikes on random houses suspected of housing terrorists. thats all. or blanket bombings of a village. if you think air support is anything but that then i got a sandbox to sell you in florida.
And the tanks that they destroy? Bunkers? Enemy combatants? Air support is bigger than just surgical terroist terminations.
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Old 05-14-2006, 02:00 PM #51
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Originally Posted by 25bps
We never finished our argument about this. It was in the Tookie thread right before you left. Let's assume a house is full of 1000 7 year olds. A man walks in, ties them all up, proceeds to rape them, and afterwards he kills them through various tortuous means: making them drink draino, burning them alive, dismemberment, etc, etc. All beg for their lives to be spared. He deserves to just carry on with his life as if nothing ever happened?

Edit: and yes, I realize you said they don't deserve to die, but I really don't know how you can justify one persons right to punish another and then say that killing them is crossing the line.
I don't object to killing people sometimes, but I don't exactly buy into the idea of morality which makes it impossible for me to say that someone DESERVES to die. That sorta presupposes some sort of ontological good and evil.
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Old 05-14-2006, 02:09 PM #52
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Originally Posted by LlamaRama
ok, i should have pasted the whole article.

anyways, these are not missions related to ground troop movement. these are airstrikes on random houses suspected of housing terrorists. thats all. or blanket bombings of a village. if you think air support is anything but that then i got a sandbox to sell you in florida.
You just contradicted yourself three times. Please, if you dont understand military strategy or techniques and just listen to reporters who don't either you're going to get nowhere. This is how an airstrike works. A patrol in Tal Afar comes under fire from a building three hundred yards down the street. The troops are pinned down and unable to move. A solider uses a laser targeting device and paint the building with it. Then an F-16 or F-18 comes in, and fires a laser guided bomb that homes in on the laser and hit the house. The U.S. troops use the momentary blast that stuns the insurgents to move on the house. They then enter inside, and kill any insurgents that are still a threat. They then evacuate all wounded insurgetns or innocent bystanders hurt in the blast to medical facilities.


Please tell me how this is a RANDOM bombing or a blanket bombing of a village? Our airforce does not randomly hit civillians simply because bombs are very expensive and wasting them on non-military targets just depletes money and ammunition.
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Old 05-14-2006, 02:14 PM #53
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Makes sense. My support for it stems from a sort of golden rule. If someone decides to take someone else's life, then they establish it is alright to take their own. It's more equivalence, than it is good or evil.
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:24 AM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaRama
no points for proper use of the word one dimensional
- 12 points for grievously improper usage of the word post-modern

what are you mocking him for saying vietnam was our fault?
ur right, i mean hell they attacked us first in the gulf of tonkin...

oh wait, ya we fake that so we could attack them first didnt we?
And what happend to the nieghboring countries after the Vietnam war? Oh yes Vietnamesse forces "assisted" local communist rebels establish communist governments. Which in prime Asian Communism style killed anyone who was thought of as "not of teh working class", politically a threat, or not willing to embrace communism. So the question raised is which was worse what we did to teh Vietnamesse or what the spread of Communism did to the whole South East Asian area?

Quote:
well, u are right bout us not causing cambodia, we can wipe the blood off our hands there.

oh whats that? we caused the sovereign government of cambodia to collapse because we backed that prince guy who overthrew them and then let the khmer rouge take over? it is all our fault??
And why where we asked by the Cambodian Government to assist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/banyan1.htm
When the Vietcong began to use areas inside Cambodia as a sanctuary from which to launch guerrilla attacks into South Vietnam, Sihanouk's position became increasingly precarious. Keeping the Vietnamese out by force was scarcely an option; his own army consisted of fewer than 30,000 poorly equipped troops. In comparison, by the end of 1964 the Vietnamese communists were fielding an army of roughly 180,000....
Lon Nol's position was a difficult one. By 1970 there were believed to be some 40,000 Vietnamese troops in the sanctuaries. Furthermore, many of the weapons and supplies for communist troops in South Vietnam came through Cambodia. The Vietnamese would not abandon the sanctuaries willingly.
And who helped the Khmer Rouge overthrow th Cambodian government? Who then invaded Cambodia themselves in '78? Oh yeah thats right...

Quote:
well, ok ok but the balkans bill clinton actually responded to, i mean we're heroes there.

wait, i forgot, we only responded after 2 genocides had already happened, and only intervened to stop the third and least deadly ethnic cleansing
So lets look at things here "If we would have stayed out of Vietnam" the communists still would have taken over the entire area, the Khmer Rouge still would have taken over Cambodia, and millions still would have died. teh only real difference is teh Vietnamesse would have had several thousand more troops and the comunist take over would have been decades sooner.

About the Balkins what was your solution? Should we us military to power to stop "genocide" every where, everytime? We would be fighting wars all over teh globe. And as proven by teh Balkins the only way to keep teh peace is by keeping troops there. Is that another ***** and complaint you guys have? We're stationing our troops and establishing "Friendly" democratic governments world wide...
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Last edited by Rugrat : 05-15-2006 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:58 PM #55
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Originally Posted by $PJ$
Iraq invaded Kuwait because of the cross drilling into their oil fields.

We are the reason for the 9/11 attacks. Our foreign policy has seated us as the aim of the millions of people who we have stepped on.
Fear and our way of life (Western Civilized World) has more to do with the reasons we were attacked, far more than foreign policy, which is often used by those on the left as an excuse. Contrary to your moronic statement, we're not to blame, the people who committed the acts are to blame, for the love of allah, please get it right.
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:11 PM #56
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I consider myself part of a mobilized society, acceptant of many things I do not necessarily agree with for the sake of obedience and defferance to the authority and structure of the group that I belong. I have a voice...exercising it through actions will always be my choice.

I see no revalations in the article for all who have this school of thought.
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:36 PM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugrat
I wonder about our country when I read things like this. The thing that really gripes my *** to no end is the hypocracy and pure BS of these posts. People like Chruchill and our beloved Zack strut around saying we get what we deserve and yet they live just like everyone else, are just as guilty, and just as much of the problem. You're a part of the "We" slick.

I think it would be poetic justice if Zack's, or Mr. Chruchill's, family falls victim to a terrorist attack. They they would understand just what it means when they say "We get what we deserve".
I consider myself and my family a military target.
You consider yourself, and your familiy a valid target?? Just so I understand; exactly why you consider yourself a military target?
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:10 PM #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP Klaus
Fear and our way of life (Western Civilized World) has more to do with the reasons we were attacked, far more than foreign policy, which is often used by those on the left as an excuse. Contrary to your moronic statement, we're not to blame, the people who committed the acts are to blame, for the love of allah, please get it right.
Nice attempt at a personal attack again, I bet you get your rocks off trying to make fun of others constantly.

Fear and the way of life? Are you joking? What do they fear? Here is what they hate us for. We are greedy, self centered, pigs in this country. We have to our noses in the entire worlds business. The attacks happened as a direct effect of our foregin policy. Only the FAR right who are blinded by the stupidity of the current war lords in Washington cannot see that. Maybe, just maybe if we did not push our ideals and ways on the rest of the world we would not be so hated. We tend to push our ways on other areas of the world when our country needs tons of work itself.

Take care of home, before you try to instill you ways on others.
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:36 AM #59
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Originally Posted by greenmile
I consider myself part of a mobilized society, acceptant of many things I do not necessarily agree with for the sake of obedience and defferance to the authority and structure of the group that I belong. I have a voice...exercising it through actions will always be my choice.

I see no revalations in the article for all who have this school of thought.
Eichmann was also part of a mobilized society, he didn't directly take part in anything bad, he didn't even hate jews, he just made it logisticly possible, he just followed orders. This article is about what happens when people deffer to the authority of their group. If you do and you're group has genocidal tendencies, you should be prepared to take a few hundred thousand deaths for the team. You can't hide behind this "I disagree but won't do anything about it because I respect the law" thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugrat
You consider yourself, and your familiy a valid target?? Just so I understand; exactly why you consider yourself a military target?
We pay taxes. I'm not a little Eichmann, by any means, but I AM a good, tax-paying, law-obeying German...er....I mean American. Remember, the holocaust wasn't possible because of the soldiers who executed it, nor the technocrats that made it possible, not even the beauracrats that ordered it. No, it was the good Germans who paid for it, who were complacent in the face of it.

Last edited by zack : 05-16-2006 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:53 AM #60
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Originally Posted by LlamaRama
these people are nameless because they live in god forsaken deserts where the only fun is jihad.


btw: if anyone takes offense, well then you're plain ignorant of history.
did you just say everyone in the mid east lives in god forsaken deserts?

I only took offense because you lied to everyone.

did you know that sometimes it snows in the mid east? it's crazy huh!

hey and have you ever been to israel? the weather is awesome! hardly "god-forsaken" as you put it. i mean...they even have rain there! wow!

parts of the mid east are cooler than the state of texas at this very moment.

Hell, parts of Iran last night were at 57 degrees. omg it's so unbearable!

Now Hurricane Katrina...now that was hell on earth.
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:46 AM #61
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haha........hilarious

I just realized im wasting my time on this forum all together, good bye forever!

More power to you Casual t. You should do the same.
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:49 AM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahn
haha........hilarious

I just realized im wasting my time on this forum all together, good bye forever!

More power to you Casual t. You should do the same.
Good bye. You did just register May of this year and you are leaving already.

No one likes a quitter.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:32 AM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaRama
sorry, tomohawks then. to see how they missed youll have to buy farenheit 9/11. i have a feeling u dont like michael moore but he does report the truth sometimes.

for the air war, normally i would tell you to go **** off and do your own reading. but i dont blame you for not knowing, everytime ive read the story its been on page 18 of the A section.


BYLINE: ROBERT BURNS; AP Military Writer

DATELINE: WASHINGTON

BODY:
The Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps have flown thousands of missions in support of U.S. ground troops in Iraq this fall with little attention back home, including attacks by unmanned Predator aircraft armed with Hellfire missiles, military records show.

News reports and the public have focused mainly on ground action by the Army and Marines, but a variety of U.S. aircraft are striking targets in Iraq daily. They include frontline Air Force and Navy fighters as well as Marine Corps attack planes. American and allied refueling, transport and surveillance planes also are flying.

AP news. if u search lexis nexis there are hundreds of articles.

Tomahawks are guided ballistic missles fired from a ship such as a destroyer. They cost $30,000.00 a missile. We are using JDAM's now, they cost about $5,000.00. They can turn a dumb bomb smart. You must also consider close air support (such as a Super Cobra) and ground support like an Abrams or a Bradley fight vehicle.

It is stupid to drop a bomb on a suspected terrorist stronghold. How would we even know if we even got our man?

Even when we caught Saddams sons, our soldiers first opened up with M2 .50cals and then begun to fire TOW missiles into the building. I think the only air support they called in was to have a Super Cobra fire a few missiles into the house after the innitial TOW shots didnt damage the building too much. We didnt just order the whole building to be flattened, it is counter productive. We want to be able to identify our specific targets.
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