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Old 04-06-2006, 05:30 AM #22
AznRevlAzn (Banned)
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I am so glad i bought the Tippmann A5 with WAS instead of the ion, atleast i don't feel cheated Imma have fun with my new project gun >
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:46 AM #23
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Nice

As a store owner for 4 years this stuff is basically pretty common but what is SP thinking. I know we have Sean@smartparts on here and it would be really nice to know what you guys want to do. If you want all the fields/stores to just close up and you guys sell direct why not just cancel all dealers? It would make more sense then cut our throats with zero markup. You know how hard it will be to sell a new ION for 199 when the market will be flooded with barely used IONS for 150 bucks. WHat a deal. I as a store owner will again not be stocking any Smart Parts stuff I don't care what kind of junk they are going to put out. 199 dollars what a joke. I have worked on every Ion I have sold they are junk but now instead of having some markup so I can offer good customer service(repairs for free etc) I am making crap and having to work on a marker for a fee even if it is sold by my store. So basically screw smart parts again.
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Old 04-06-2006, 06:10 AM #24
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PaintballMolly u cry alot dude lol get over it all of paintball is geting cheeper
just 4 years ago paint was 80 + for 2000 now u can get good paint for 60 or less
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:23 AM #25
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I was excited to see the price drop for a few reasons:

1) It's an even better price on a marker that was already priced in a league of its own.

2) Lower prices means we'll sell more of them. $200 is more affordable for most young people than $300.

3) We've already had customers come into our RETAIL store and drop the extra $85 on aftermarket accessories.

Granted, I can understand why some dealers might be upset at the short notice that was given and the price drop that cuts their margins, however, how long have you been involved if you haven't seen this from almost every other major dealer (Dye, Eclipse, SP, National, Odyssey, Bob Long, Kingman, etc etc etc)? It isn't just exclusive to this business either... It happens in most other retail related industries.

Find ways to move the product or see if you can talk to SP if it was a recent purchase.

To those that are upset that the Ions needs repaired a lot. It's an inexpensive 'gun... you'll have that. We fix TONS of Spyders and Piranhas... we fix far fewer Ions, but the few we do are usually because someone was doing something they shouldn't have. Learn the markers and start earning money on repairs. It's an integral part of any service based business.

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Old 04-06-2006, 09:10 AM #26
AyanamiRei (Banned)
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Maybe it means that the CQ and stuff on Ions are getting even lower.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:05 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jom
I was excited to see the price drop for a few reasons:

To those that are upset that the Ions needs repaired a lot. It's an inexpensive 'gun... you'll have that. We fix TONS of Spyders and Piranhas... we fix far fewer Ions, but the few we do are usually because someone was doing something they shouldn't have. Learn the markers and start earning money on repairs. It's an integral part of any service based business.

Jom
Wow this was the biggest lie in paintball I've seen. WOW. We fix and fix and fix Ions. Customers who buy them from us never return them to SMP they come to us and we have to fix them for free. On 5-10 Ions we sell, one is leaking out of the box. We have to buy parts to fix warranty problems because it costs us less than shipping the markers back to SMP and we also need to keep customers happy and they expect to play the same week they buy the marker not 4 weeks later when the gun is returned, fixed and shipped back to us and then to the customer. One marker shipped from customer to us to SMP from SMP to us and then from us to customers cost us more in shipping cost than the whole mark up on the gun. Also the cost in labour, telepone time etc adds up. When we sell 1000 Spyders or Tippmanns we get like 1 back for fixing. Either the buyers fix by themself or they just work. I dont know, I dont care, as long as I dont have to waist expenisve time to help customers fix broken products. This is why I would prefer if the Ion was like $400 not $200. Maybe it works better in the US, Im in Europe, we have differnet laws and service level here.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:06 AM #28
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Did anybody else catch the statistic in the new PB2extremes stating that marker sales make up only 11% of paintball sales? i would assume that SP products make up a fraction of that percentage.

Based on Ion pricing, realistically this move has cost you $16 a marker in profit on a $200 sale. Why not package an Ion with a q lock and an on off and turn even more profit than before?

IMO all this complaining has only showed us customers what profit local stores have been making...bad move. I'm not so sure that I feel obligated to continue paying to support my local store at those numbers.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:32 AM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKNOW
Wow this was the biggest lie in paintball I've seen. WOW.
Why is this a lie? It's simply our experience. I have no reason to make this up...

The Ions are very easy to fix. Perhaps you are correct that your shop should stick to blowbacks. From what you've described, you guys are better able to service those markers.

Smart Parts has been excellent for us in sending parts when we need them.
Kingman has also been great for sending whatever we need. We sell both products because our customers dictate what we sell (we don't tell them what to buy; just carry what they want).

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Old 04-06-2006, 10:44 AM #30
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Originally Posted by PaintballMolly
As a store owner for 4 years this stuff is basically pretty common but what is SP thinking. I know we have Sean@smartparts on here and it would be really nice to know what you guys want to do. If you want all the fields/stores to just close up and you guys sell direct why not just cancel all dealers? It would make more sense then cut our throats with zero markup. You know how hard it will be to sell a new ION for 199 when the market will be flooded with barely used IONS for 150 bucks. WHat a deal. I as a store owner will again not be stocking any Smart Parts stuff I don't care what kind of junk they are going to put out. 199 dollars what a joke. I have worked on every Ion I have sold they are junk but now instead of having some markup so I can offer good customer service(repairs for free etc) I am making crap and having to work on a marker for a fee even if it is sold by my store. So basically screw smart parts again.
Except sean@smartparts was banned about a day after this was posted. He got banned for life for corporate spaming.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:44 AM #31
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I agree with JOM. You guys should stop complianing and make this work for you. Everybody knows that it's good to replace the feed neck and ASA on the Ion right out of the box. The Ion Pro is approximately $345. You guys have to be able to find a marker package thats almost as good but not as expensive. Put a package together thats below the price of the Ion Pro but has the same features. Hell sell tuned Ion's with pre installed QEV's and bolts. There are a lot of marketing schemes out there that I don't see or hear Paintball retailers using. Group buys and package deals ar ethe way to go. Get your high profit margin accessoories and pair them up with Ion's and make you money back.
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:08 AM #32
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At the shop I work at, we've probably sold over 25-30 ions, I'm guessing. Most come back once because the customer doesn't know how to do something. The guys that use them 2-4 times a month get things like solenoid barbs broken (the only major flaw on the Ion IMHO). Once guy is now sending his in for the third time, aside from him I can't think of anyone who has had their gun sent in more than once. Most only play once or twice a month but still, they are coming out, sliding on it, dropping it, sitting on it, and still shooting half a case of paint with no trouble. Hell, its ten times more reliable than any Brass Eagle gun and now the Ion is almost in their price range!

My boss stocks at least two levels of Ions at all times now. I'm the one who works on them most of the time and I've really learned to like them. The owners are proud of them, despite the occasional problem, because they shoot fast, smooth, and didn't cost them so much that they can pick up a few upgrades with it. If you run a field, Ions are nice because players tend to shoot a little more paint and have LESS gun problems. That's right, LESS! This may not make sense but think of all the people who chop and misfire with their blowbacks. When they chop, they can't hit anything so they have less fun. How many times have you heard "my gun isn't working" just to look in the breach and see soup. As long they aren't lighting people up, which you need to watch out for , they are not hurting your field in anyway.

Also, if they didn't buy their Ion from you, tech work will turn a good profit almost every time. All you need is an oring kit, some lube, and a few misc parts like eyes or detents and you can help your customers and yourself quickly and easily.

For those who had ordered ions before the drop, I feel for you. The Ion was a staple for our shop last year because of the margin and now that's gone. I hope SP helps you out a little bit at least.

As for me, I'm happy for the price drop! I'm now thinking of picking up a Shocker for myself. My boss ordered six ions, several body kits, qev's, and a bunch of other stuff. The Proto was our best selling highend gun last year but this year it maybe different.

---Don't start flaming over shockers now, I've worked on them too and most of the time you just have to replace the 017 orings. After owning two of them before, I can say that they are very nice guns, if you know how to work on them.
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:11 AM #33
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Originally Posted by takedown65
Except sean@smartparts was banned about a day after this was posted. He got banned for life for corporate spaming.

Sean is no longer banned
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:20 AM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wierd-Guy
At the shop I work at, we've probably sold over 25-30 ions, I'm guessing. Most come back once because the customer doesn't know how to do something. The guys that use them 2-4 times a month get things like solenoid barbs broken (the only major flaw on the Ion IMHO). Once guy is now sending his in for the third time, aside from him I can't think of anyone who has had their gun sent in more than once.
Wow, each marker came back once ONLY???? So now you have 25-30 unhappy customers and 25-30 guns you had to fix for free? How many Spyders and Tippmanns did you sell in the same time and how many of those did come back?
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:11 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wierd-Guy
At the shop I work at, we've probably sold over 25-30 ions, I'm guessing. Most come back once because the customer doesn't know how to do something. The guys that use them 2-4 times a month get things like solenoid barbs broken (the only major flaw on the Ion IMHO). Once guy is now sending his in for the third time, aside from him I can't think of anyone who has had their gun sent in more than once.
I agree with iKNOW, that statistic is absurd. You say it's mainly because the cutomer doesn't know how to do something, so show them the ins and outs of the gun before u send them out the door with it. We've been selling probably 2 Ions a week since last June, and a very large majority of them DO NOT come back. This is because before the customer purchases the gun, we teach them as much as they are willing to listen to. The only Ions that come back are from the customers who didn't care about learning how to maintain the gun and keep it in good working order, or ones that have busted noids or boards.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:30 PM #36
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I personally dont like selling ions in my store, which is why I only special order em for customers who REALLY want one. I dont give any warrenty on it ether, I have no problem telling the customer this.

Odds are most ions break down, there horribly unreliable, and im wondering if smart parts droped the price as they found a way to make them even cheaper made.......

Repairs is where its at! $45 bux an hour for fixing leaks is good enough for me!
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:39 PM #37
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I have never had a prolem with my Ion. Most if not all the problems the Ion is user error. Solnoid barbs that breal are user error. There are only a few places to spring leaks as it is. All you dealers claming the marker is garabe need to find the root of the problem istead of slandering a great product. Just skim the Ion forum. All thr problems you see are user caused problems. Very very few are out of the box factory probelms.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:59 PM #38
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I agree. I have sold probably 30-40 Ions and I have had one kid come back with a fried board/fried eye board because he used the cheapest paint I've ever seen on his Ion and fried his main board, eye board, and screwed up his Halo. SP covered it under warranty and everything was good, he just learned not to use cheap paint. I've never seen such a mess in my life of paint..but other than that, I myself have had 3 or 4 Ions and they've all been great guns even out of the box...
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:03 PM #39
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ions are cheaply made......i went through 5 board! 5 of them. not one of the breaks were my fault. they are just poorly made. and not all the problems are user error. many of them are jsut the poor quality of the product but in the end you get what you pay for
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Old 04-06-2006, 02:00 PM #40
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we can also do something else now that SP dropped their prices..... like uhhhh..... go buy their guns? isnt that the whole point of dropping prices so people buy your things??? correct me if im wrong
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Old 04-06-2006, 04:05 PM #41
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I know that there were problems with boards, but they have fixed them all now.
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Old 04-06-2006, 04:14 PM #42
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"IMO all this complaining has only showed us customers what profit local stores have been making...bad move. I'm not so sure that I feel obligated to continue paying to support my local store at those numbers."

Because God forbid a business owner makes a profit. Hey guess what buddy, buying something online is still filling someone's pockets. They're making a killing off kids like you. If you're so reluctant to give your money to someone, might as well build your own gun.
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