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Old 02-28-2006, 11:57 AM #1
pablov1
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Need Help selecting what type of marker for rental

Hi I know I have seen this question asked before but since models change and doing a search on pbnation option is inactive I have been unable to look for the thread.

I will put a new camp and its time to select what type of markers will be bought
I have seeen most camps get tippmann coustom 98.

I am looking for something that will last, easy on maintenance and reliable.
No cheep plastic I rather metal.

Question is for both E-grip and semi


Please post your experience on what you have used and what worked best?

Regards.
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:22 PM #2
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For Rentals it is BEST to go with 98 Customs, there is a reason field after field uses them for rentals.
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Old 02-28-2006, 01:23 PM #3
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98 customs,I've seen a field rent ions,98's,and shockers but go with the 988 customs
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:16 PM #4
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lvl 10 mags.

A little more expensive, but

no chops ever, (less cleaning)
easiest to strip, clean
way less maintenance
no worn out sears (like 98s)

People also percieve that they are higher quality than 98s (b/c they are)

I'm opening a field, this is what I'm using. Little pricier up front, but far better in the long run.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:21 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investorguy
lvl 10 mags.

A little more expensive, but

no chops ever, (less cleaning)
easiest to strip, clean
way less maintenance
no worn out sears (like 98s)

People also percieve that they are higher quality than 98s (b/c they are)

I'm opening a field, this is what I'm using. Little pricier up front, but far better in the long run.
Be sure to have a few extra grip frames handy, assuming they're still plastic. A field I used to work at had them as a rental upgrade and we saw more than a few come back with broken frames.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:34 PM #6
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Good idea.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:06 PM #7
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I'd hate to adjust level ten in all those mags day in and day out. Yuck
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:21 PM #8
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The feild I assist manage has 150 tippman 98's. These are by far the best bang for your buck. Every few years we sand blast them all and spray paint em, so they always look cool.

Also there very easy to keep in maintenance, but I suggest you order a bunch of the horse shoe spring parts, as they get lost quite easy, hehe.

I try and strip/fully clean and grease 10-15 tippmanns a week to keep up on maintenance, but thats alot more attention most feilds give there equipment.

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Old 02-28-2006, 03:32 PM #9
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For outdoor use, tippmanns are the way to go. You could also rent out response trigger A5's as performance rentals. Tippmann customer service sends out loads of free spare parts for those who buy a lot of markers from them. We use Tippmanns for the outdoor fields, which we have many of. About 130 markers. Tippmann literally sent us a barrel filled with o-rings.

When we built the indoor field, we decided to rent out eforce piranhas. They are very easy to maintain and we just drop in costco brand 9v's. Those things are dirt cheap at the volumes we buy them in. We don't have much time to charge the batteries that come stock because they require 22 hours give or take. PMI has been great to us. Even though the trigger frames are plastic they are virtually bomb-proof. Only one has broken in two years. PMI replaced it in three days.

We also rent out Ions with Halo B's for $25. Because it is so expensive to equip Ions with Halo B's and Nitrogen tanks, we only have 10 of them. The Ions are forbidden to be used on the outdoor fields, and so far that rule has prevented the destruction of our pride and joy. Two body kits cracked, but Smart Parts replaced them in about 3 weeks. Not too impressed with SP customer service, but at least they replaced the body kits for free and didn't charge us S&H.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:16 PM #10
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:24 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investorguy
lvl 10 mags.
Love your choice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy
Be sure to have a few extra grip frames handy, assuming they're still plastic.
What on Earth wre you renters doing to them? Itís near impossible to destroy an AGD composity frame. TK even hung his Miata from a bracket screwed to the bottom of one on a classic Automag. Donít have the pisture to link to, but shouldnít be too hard to find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitt_travis
I'd hate to adjust level ten in all those mags day in and day out. Yuck
Whatís to adjust? Set them once, then if they ever leak move one carrier down. You might go forever without having to change. Most likely, youíll change it once when the o-ring wears in and thatís it.
Compare that to the maintenance on Tippmanns to clean them up (or the cost hen replacing markers or parts from lack of cleaning..
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:28 PM #12
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Like people have shown, it depends on your field size, set up, customer base, and available purchasing funds. Honestly, though, its not cost effective to carry all the different kinds of guns people are talking about here, nor is it practical to carry so many different kinds without having refs that can work on a gun right away, or keep an eye on how people are treating their equipment. Overall, I would indeed say Tippmann.

First of all, what is the customer going to want? Most of all, they will want something that works. Something that works EVERY time. Plenty of guns do that, with proper care and maintainence. Next, most are going to want something that, when they do have to mess with it, will be very simple. Nothing hard about cocking and pulling a trigger. Some guns don't need to be cocked, but those usually need to be turned on (electronic) or the trigger system is sensitive, and prone to short stroking (mags and cockers). Tippmann stock barrels aren't always very accurate, but that's changing, and they have aftermarket barrels available (although aftermarket barrels are much more desirable for thieves).

Now, lets look at it from the owner/operator's point of view. My guess is you (like many owners and players) want something that will work (and work well), for the lowest price possible. Owners want something easy to take care of (to keep attention on the players), and something that isn't going to be stolen. Also, good customer support is a great benefit. While other companies have most or many of these, Tippmann has it all. They aren't the cheapest thing out there, but they certainly do the job for less than what you could be paying for something else. Also, having a "beginner's gun" as your rental, you will spur more people to buy their way into the sport, having tried something that works for them. So, if you own a store, you also benefit that way.

Obviously, for some fields it may be good to have other options than just a Model 98 or 98 Custom. Tippmann has the 98 Pro series available, which come in three models (standard mech, Response Trigger, Electronic) as well as the A-5 line.

Go with what's been working well for renters for years. Nothing like the experience of the majority to prove a point.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:32 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investorguy
lvl 10 mags.

A little more expensive, but

no chops ever, (less cleaning)
easiest to strip, clean
way less maintenance
no worn out sears (like 98s)

People also percieve that they are higher quality than 98s (b/c they are)

I'm opening a field, this is what I'm using. Little pricier up front, but far better in the long run.
Sorry, the no chops thing is baloney. And I had one, so I'm not just bs'ing.
Also, LVL 10 mags need air, (or special CO2 setup) no matter what, whereas Tippmanns can run Air or CO2.
Probably too easy to strip (don't want renters getting at those thumb screws and losing them)
And they're not just "a little pricier", in comparison to a Tippmann field package, you're talking between $200 and $300 more PER GUN.
Also, not all renters are necessarily skilled enough to properly shoot a mag, particularly under fire.
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Last edited by Castro #66 : 02-28-2006 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:50 PM #14
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skilled to shoot a mag? wtf?
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:15 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66
Sorry, the no chops thing is baloney. And I had one, so I'm not just bs'ing.
Depends on the set-up. Too light, will chuff on anything, too hard, no different than a lvl7 bolt. But, EVERY marker will get barrel breaks with bad paint. Actual chops are rare regardless of the marker.

Itís all neither here nor there as Tippmanns will also chop and have their peculiarities that take getting used to for a new player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66
Also, LVL 10 mags need air, (or special CO2 setup) no matter what, whereas Tippmanns can run Air or CO2.
Well, I happen to know Investorguy is getting a HPA setup and compressor.

In another thread, I questioned the need to support CO2. Considering the cost, itís hardly worth it. et some rental HPA bottles for those owners that donít have HPA Tanks. Relegate CO2 to the Proshop where it can make profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66
Probably too easy to strip (don't want renters getting at those thumb screws and losing them)
lol. Letís count the pieces that can go missing from a Tippmann or any other marker once the renters start fiddling....

Regardless of whatís chosen, blue LOCTITE is your friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66
And they're not just "a little pricier", in comparison to a Tippmann field package, you're talking between $200 and $300 more PER GUN.
Well, Iíll assume Invertorguy has talked to AGD. I know they swung a deal with a field that was publicised on AO. Unfortunately, I think that field dumped the Mags because the noobs preferred the ďrealisticĒ looking Tippys at the competition. But I think the real story was deeper than that...

But I donít think the step up is that huge. You can get a complete X-valved ULE bodied mag for about 300$ through dealers. Bigger cost jump IMO would be the HPA tanks. But, whatís the payback time/ROI considering you eliminate the need to buy and fill CO2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66
Also, not all renters are necessarily skilled enough to properly shoot a mag, particularly under fire.
If you canít fire a mag, ... well renters will have trouble no matter what you chose. When I went to AO Canada in the fall, it was the first time I had shot a Mag. Stock Minimag, 2 cases of paint and much fun later (although a good sized blister on my trigger finger) I canít say itís tough to shoot a mag.
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:40 PM #16
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Like I said, a RENTER may not be able to shoot one well, under fire. Just because we can, doesn't mean the young kids will be able to, who have never played before, nor the 30-40+ teambuilding business group necessarily.

Aside from the barrel and feedneck, nothing on a 98 is removable by hand or at least without tools.

My main point is that Tippmann has always been there for fields, and now, with their new "Pro" line, you can have more options, while maintaining or bettering a good business relationship with a top company.

What I think you are missing out on the most is the fact that mags are just more likely to be stolen. A Tippmann is a good gun, but not a good enough gun for just any dishonest person to steal, kind of like bowling shoes or rental rollerskates/blades. Replacing a stolen 98 is also not as expensive as a mag would be. Or five, for that matter... that's comparing say, $400-500 to over $1000. People already take 98's and HPA tanks, where's the sense in losing twice as much money (or more) any time someone likes your stuff just a bit too much?
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:05 PM #17
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I have seen retal fleets of the new proclassic mags. Way better idea than 98s imho
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:27 PM #18
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We have had 200 PMI Piranha's in service for 5 years now and have been very satisfied. They are super easy to clean when needed and work great on CO2 or compressed air. PMI has a specific rental version (under $100.00) that has yellow trim to set them apart and rear cocking so the body is closed. Be sure to get the vertical feed version and use compessed air for best results. PMI includes barrel bag and spare parts kit with each and still provides a 1 year warranty. Check out www.pminetwork.com for more information.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:52 PM #19
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Anyone use Tippmann procarbines, prolites, or 68 carbines? What did you think of them?
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:54 PM #20
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I did a lot of research (and read a lot of threads just like this) before I went w/ Mags. I did not end up going w/ ULE mags for a couple reasons. Well, one reason: cost. I found 24 LX powerfeed mags used one season for $125 each (I think they're $200 or so new). I traded a couple high-end electros and cash for the lot of them. I also have about 18 or so Piranas and 98 that have been used for a season or two for $30 (gun/mask/hopper) each. My field is small enough that I'll never need more rentals than that. My field is also small enough that I highly doubt I'll run into problems with theft. I'm running it as "private practice field" anyway (w/ an LLC and insurance, of course) and don't plan on having legions of people around. Also, I will not be offering CO2, nor allowing it at my field. I have plenty of air tanks (30 or so, 20 are brand new, rest a year old). I have a compressor and 2 storage tanks, which should be fine for a max of 30 players

I wanted a gun that (1) was low maintenance (2) was incredibly durable (3) seemed a little bit more high end than your typical Pirahna or Tippmann (though I have a few of those), (4) was easy to strip when I did need to fix something and (5) would be light enough on paint to ensure a fun experience for all. I settled on mags and looked for the right deal. It came along, so I bought.

I also just found a source of telephone poles for $50. I've put a lot thought into this thing. I'm not saying I'm not going to screw it up, but I'm working hard not to. I do as much research as I can and jump on good deals when I find them.

I admit, for many people, the choices I'm making may not be fully appropriate. This field is not going to be my primary source of income (hell, I'll be lucky to make my investment back in 7 years at this rate). Also, I had a good year last year in my day job and the write-off from all the start-up and prep costs saved me a lot of taxes and made the thing make sense. Also, I have 8 acres... what else am I gonna do with it. Down the road, I'll turn it over to my kids and let them run things. I kept the business as an LLC w/ disregarded entity because the IRS allows you to pay your children in a business (non S-corp) and not pay any FICA tax on the wages. I can pay my kids 4K-5K per year each (as long as revenues allow it), fund a Roth ira for their college (or whatever) and absorb most of the income the field generates. They won't pay any taxes b/c it doesn't exceed their standard deduction.

Anyway, I know there's a lot about this business that I don't know and am being forced to learn as I go along, but I have reasons for most things I do.





Everybody get all that?
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Old 03-01-2006, 08:34 AM #21
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All the new Tippmann 98's will have anti-chop technology(ACT) installed. so no more chops. call Tippmann and find out when they will be available.
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