[Dukemoney63]

hey guys! have a vice and want it to shoot basically as soft as possible.

care about: (in order)
accuracy/consistency/12.5 bps
extremely soft shot
extremely quiet shot

don't care about:
efficiency
spending money

Gun already has:
4c eyes
tadao yakuza oled board
lp poppet
stock bolt
stock ram
bob long geardrive
critical trigger
empire freak kit
lpr tester

are there other products out there i can put in this thing to make it have as little kick as possible and be as quiet as possible? thanks!

[SKI008]

Well there's the Eigenram but I've heard people have trouble using that in conjunction with the LP poppit you already have so I think you just need to tune it. Follow the sweetspotting guide in the sticky.

[Mr. Stealthy]

You should be able to achieve all those things withthe marker properly tuned (the pressure tester makes this easier). However, the only items that will really make it shoot any smoother are the LP Poppet or the Eigenram (the two should not be used together so choose either or). Both work great.

For a quiet shot, the lp poppet and eigenram will help but well ported barrel will also help minimize sound. The freak kit has a lot of porting which should make for a pretty quiet shot.

For max consistency, simply keep your marker clean, properly lubed, sweet spot the regulators using the lurker method, and use either an underbore or overbore fit to your paint.

The other items you listed are a waste if you are going to be using 12.5 ramping. The 4c eyes, trigger and OLED won't really do much for you and I wouldn't purchase them unless you really want them. The gear drive would be nice for removing the tank.

[Dukemoney63]

Edited to add that I already have the items listed. I ordered an eigenram today but I'm wondering about eigen vs LP poppet...if both make the gun kick the same amount less but only the eigenram quiets the gun, wouldn't the obvious choice be just to use the eigenram for what I'm looking for?

[SKI008]

The ram won't make the gun quieter. Get a barrel with boatloads of porting if you want quiet.

[Dukemoney63]

I had read the gun is quieter with the ram. If that's incorrect, then am I to assume that the LP poppet and the eigenram essentially serve the same purpose of just smoothing out the shot ie less kick?

[Dukemoney63]

Lurkers site says the gen 5 eigenram is designed to reduce the noise signature of the gun as well as reducing recoil.

[Mr. Stealthy]

Originally Posted by Dukemoney63

Edited to add that I already have the items listed. I ordered an eigenram today but I'm wondering about eigen vs LP poppet...if both make the gun kick the same amount less but only the eigenram quiets the gun, wouldn't the obvious choice be just to use the eigenram for what I'm looking for?

If you have all that stuff for the gun and tune it right it should be plenty smooth. I wouldn't say the eigenram allows for a smoother shot over the lp poppet per say, but it is damn smooth and has a bit more adjustability with the adjustable brass weight insert. Both are pretty damn smooth.

[Dukemoney63]

So you're saying the LP poppet with stock ram would have less kick than eigenram with stock poppet?

[SKI008]

The difference is going to be negligible (probably, Lurker himself might show up and chime in). The lurker ram is lighter so it reduces the reciprocating mass in the gun, the LP poppit lets you run a lower pressure and increases the mechanical dwell of the valve so the impulse is less (at least I think that's how it works with my intro level physics knowledge, I'm sure someone smarter than me can explain it better).

I don't see how the ram could quiet the gun. The noise from a shot is from the poppit opening and the air escaping from the barrel. If you take longer to open the valve (what the LP poppit does) then the sound of the air rushing through the valve will quiet (think of popping a balloon versus letting the air out slowly through the bottom. Which is quieter?) but the bigger sound difference comes from barrel porting.

...Probably. Again I'm sure Lurker or Blueshifty or any of the other actual engineers on PBN could probably explain this better.

[Dukemoney63]

Ok so assuming LP poppet and eigenram are the same as far as sound/kick goes, would either change the trajectory of the shot? Efficiency be better on either?

[SKI008]

Nothing short of a backspin barrel like an Apex will change the trajectory of the shot.

[gamer565]

Changing the ram and poppet won't change the trajectory...
Nothing will effectly change the trajectory besides a apex or flat line.

Lp poppet actually lowers the shoot account by few hundred shots, using a slp tank reg will nullify that.

Honestly the marker can be soft and quiet right of the box, if you tune it.

[Dukemoney63]

I use a pro Ninja reg adjusted to 550 psi. So using the poppet would be less efficient than using an eigenram? Also, I guess I was just referring to the trajectory as far as how a dm's trajectory is vs a shocker vs a ego.

[gamer565]

Eigenram will probably not effect the efficiency much, depending on how you tune.

[Dukemoney63]

So noise and kick are the same between eigenram and LP poppet and while eigenram maintains stock efficiency levels, the LP poppet will actually drop the efficiency?

[gamer565]

Reducing the reciprocating mass will reduce kick, reducing the operating pressure will reduce noise.

LP poppet lowers OP, but also cost a slight lose in efficiency. Depending on tuning
Eigenram will reduce reciprocating mass, may or may not change efficiency and again depends on tuning.

As you see there is a pattern, and it all depends on the user and there ability to setup the marker correctly.
I will say though the premium bolt and LP poppet will be the best combo for quiet and efficiency

[Dukemoney63]

Best combo for quiet and least kick?

[SKI008]

LP poppit and learn to tune it.

That's the tl;dr of this entire thread. You need to tune your gun. Just bolting parts to it isn't the whole battle. You could probably accomplish similar things with the stock poppit and Eigen ram but since you already have the LP poppit there's no reason to get a new ram.

[gamer565]

Probably Eigen and Premium bolt.

Try using and tuning the marker as it is though, you'll be surprised what it will do stock. Even stock it willl easy get a case off a 68/45, if you need more then get a bigger tank.

[Dukemoney63]

I play at a field where I can fill after every game. I use a 68/45 tank with pro ninja reg set to 550 psi output. I could change the output if someone suggests a better psi (450-800 is the range of the reg I think). What I want is a stock body/frame vice with whatever ups that exist to make it as quiet and smooth as possible. Whatever combo that is, I want to buy it. That's all I care about. Stock vice + what upgrades? + tuning = can't find a quieter or softer shooting vice anywhere. I don't care how much anything costs. It seems that when I get my eigenram I will have issues with it because I have a LP poppet. So now I want to know which one of them to use to get a vice that shoots as smooth as possible and as quiet as possible. Thanks.