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Old 02-21-2006, 10:37 AM #1
dalemessenger (Banned)
 
 
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About paintball insurance

Why is it that paintball insurance is so high priced?
People are making it hard for the sport to grow.They want to conplain about paint price and air.But no one realizes how much insurance costs for the sport.I am trying to start a field and the insurance is probably going to stop me.I don't antisipate a large number of players and I really can't see spending that kind of money not to get it back.Why?????????????? Is my only question,people ***** because theres nowhere to play but its because of them same people that the insurance is what it is!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:40 AM #2
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Most agents use the same underwriter so we have few choices of who to do business with. They charge what they do because...they can.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:58 PM #3
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Unfortunately insurance companies see it as high risk. There aren't many injuries in paintball, but the injuries we do have cost the insurance companies alot of money.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:25 PM #4
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Yea I am 15 and i know it cost alot for paintball insurance
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Old 02-23-2006, 08:46 AM #5
Peter S Frentzen
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Not sure where you are located, so my answers to your question may be out in left field. I am in the insurance business and handle the coverage for many fields. The cost of the coverage, in my opinion, is not that high when you consider the exposure. The fields I currently insure have not seen a price increase in 3 years, which can not be said for most industries. While it is true that there are not that many sources, there are a few and they do quite a nice job. Drop me a PM if you like and we can discuss further, I would be happy to assist you in your search.
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Old 02-23-2006, 11:47 AM #6
Z@Moneypaintball (Banned)
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Expensive?

In all honesty I do not see paintball insurance being that high, and yes this is coming from a guy that sells insurance and has a field background.

On average most fields are looking at $1,400 - $1,800 a year for insurance. Think thats bad? I pay more on my CAR insurance each year....and thats without any tickets or accidents (damn sports car).

For that 1,400 - 1,800 you get coverage of liability (1 million) and accident medical ($25,000 per incident). For that 1,400 - 1,800 a year that isnt that bad.

Insurance may seem like alot, but think of what it could cost you if you do not have it and something were to happen. A waiver doesnt hold up in court and opperating without insurance is illegal in many states...and lets not forget what hospitals charge these days. Opperating without insurance is a no-no, its just to risky. Play it safe and rearrange your budget to fit the insurance, if you cannot afford it many places offer options to help allow you get insurance.

I can tell you this, when I sell someone insurance I make about enough to go down to subway and buy myself a (#1) 6-inch meatball on white. Insurance doesnt make much, at least around here. Others gouge it, but ultimately it all goes back to one of two underwriters that do the paintball insurance.

Last edited by Z@Moneypaintball : 02-23-2006 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:47 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z@Moneypaintball
On average most fields are looking at $1,400 - $1,800 a year for insurance. Think thats bad? I pay more on my CAR insurance each year....and thats without any tickets or accidents (damn sports car).

For that 1,400 - 1,800 you get coverage of liability (1 million) and accident medical ($25,000 per incident). For that 1,400 - 1,800 a year that isnt that bad.
Who has a policy at that amount?? Perhaps of your field only has 5 people per day.

I've been quoted prices closer to $9,000. And yes, it's expensive so far that I've found. I hear the average 1 buck per person per day... Well, when a field charges 5 - 15 to get in, you are talking about 10 - 20% of revenue in insurance! And this for a sport that you continiously hear is safer than bowling... I wonder if bowling alleys pay a buck per person per day... think?

We have a dive shop - and when we teach someone to dive, the insurance policy covers them during the pool work, out doing the dives for a weekend, and actually covers the instructor for the next 5 years - in case the divers makes a mistake 2 years down the road - gets hurt and tries to blame it on their instructor didn't teach them right. And that policy costs less than the dollar per day per person they get for paintball, and is closer to .3% of revenue... not 10 - 20%.

If anyone has other options for insurance coverages, I'm looking now as in about 2 months we will be opening our indoor field... just finishing up the closing on the building, then we'll have a little remodel going - but looking for insurance now.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:23 AM #8
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From the talks I have had, the problem is this:

There are many small fields set up. Alot of them are not set up very safe. While anyone running a real business will be interested in strict safety, some of these guys just don't understand. Because of this, your first few years of insurance are at a high rate, (about $1 per player). After you have had a few years experience, the rate drops.

I have been to several fields that charge for entry, yet I cannot recommend them because of safety. To many people think of field set up and netting as one time expenses. They must be maintained and replaced on a regular basis.
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:56 AM #9
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My advice to you is shop around. Try and circumvent the middleman as much as possible. Our initial quotes were 2-3k higher than what we actually paid. PM me and I'll give you the name of our carrier.
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Old 02-24-2006, 02:41 PM #10
dalemessenger (Banned)
 
 
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reply

Well some of what you guys said is correct on average price for insurance is 1400-1800.But listen this is my problem.We are in a small town and have a small amount of people that play.But I want to be legit and have coverage for people ( mostly my friends) and the accational person that wants to play.Now for these kind of numbers 1400 -1800 is preaty high.I understand the fields that go thru 100 + a day or weekend but for the small guy he gets screwed.Thats what isn't right even in car insurance you can get liability at a cheap price.Well Like the one gentlemen said they charge what they charge because they can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:19 PM #11
Z@Moneypaintball (Banned)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatSplat
Who has a policy at that amount?? Perhaps of your field only has 5 people per day.

I've been quoted prices closer to $9,000. And yes, it's expensive so far that I've found. I hear the average 1 buck per person per day... Well, when a field charges 5 - 15 to get in, you are talking about 10 - 20% of revenue in insurance! And this for a sport that you continiously hear is safer than bowling... I wonder if bowling alleys pay a buck per person per day... think?

We have a dive shop - and when we teach someone to dive, the insurance policy covers them during the pool work, out doing the dives for a weekend, and actually covers the instructor for the next 5 years - in case the divers makes a mistake 2 years down the road - gets hurt and tries to blame it on their instructor didn't teach them right. And that policy costs less than the dollar per day per person they get for paintball, and is closer to .3% of revenue... not 10 - 20%.

If anyone has other options for insurance coverages, I'm looking now as in about 2 months we will be opening our indoor field... just finishing up the closing on the building, then we'll have a little remodel going - but looking for insurance now.

Bud, my phone # is listed below. Give me a call on Monday and ask for "Z" or "Zak" (either will get you transfered to me) and I can work my magic for you. And FYI that covers upto a couple thousand people a year.

First lets get one thing really down, the factors that go into insurance are these:

1) # of people per year
2) cost per person
3) indoor or outdoor

For an indoor with a decent # of people the most I have ever seen it hit was $5,000 for the year. If your entry is really high (say 40$+) that will boost that price up big time.

Try and shoot for 10-20$ per person for entry and that will keep your rate low.

But give me a call and let me see if I can't help you out and just so you know it takes roughly 48 hours for the coverage to take effect after you fill out the three forms (three pages) and take care of a half hour phone call. Its rather painless and not that expensive, you just need to know the people who don't gouge on the prices.

The truth is this, all insurance boils back to one of two underwriters. Everyone is selling pretty much the same thing, the only difference is the cut that the person selling makes. Personally speaking I make about enough to go buy myself lunch at subway (6-inch meantball). The reason why we don't gouge on the price is that it helps draw people in to us and with a good hook-up they tend to stay with us when they see we offer highly compeditive prices.

Last edited by Z@Moneypaintball : 02-24-2006 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:28 PM #12
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hey i gotta get subscribed to this thread...trying to learn about field insurance.

Zak - I'll keep in touch with you in the future.
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:37 PM #13
Z@Moneypaintball (Banned)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bestdamnballer
hey i gotta get subscribed to this thread...trying to learn about field insurance.

Zak - I'll keep in touch with you in the future.
Its "Z" but whichever suits you (seriously look at my Drivers License it really is just Z)

And dont hesitate to pick up the phone and give me a call, its toll free and I am always more then happy to answer any questions you have even if you arent ready to buy...its what I do all day anyhow.

Shoot me a PM and I will toss you my email if you want it and whenever you have questions about something I can help you out, I have used and have experiance with 98% of all the products we carry (not an easy task, but it kills time on slow days ) so I usually can help you with just about anything....just please PLEASE don't ask me how to field strip a Badger, I have to go dig around for my old one to help you with that!
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Old 02-28-2006, 09:48 PM #14
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ive been in bisness for 6 years and am in a small town with low numbers. just paid 1664.50 today to renew my outdoor field. 5 years ago i paid 600 a year. ive never had a claim, and like to think i run the safest field in the country, altho alot of us do. i also have a small airplane and insurance on it is 825 a year with about the same liability coverage. insurance is just a wishywashy deal in my opinion
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:29 PM #15
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Who's your carrier?
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:45 AM #16
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you dont have it bad for insurance.... ask one of the reps from cossio what is cheaper... paintball or the inflatable rental business. I am selling my inventory of inflatables and getting back into the paintball business. i would be glad to pay 2-3k a year compaired to 6-8k a year.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:43 PM #17
Peter S Frentzen
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Yet another insurance pro heard from. I am located in PA and have access to paintball coverages throughout the country. As Z said, there are many factors that tie into the cost, and frankly, the amount of commissions paid is not one of them. I personally do not get paid on commissions, I am strictly administration and ONLY got involved in paintball insurance due to owning and managing a team. I am just now renewing for one of the fields I handle here in PA and the rate took a modest increase over last year of .02%, compare that to where gas prices were a year ago. Factor into this , as stated above, safety is a big issue. Most General Liability policies for Paintball fields are written via an association. As such, you get grouped in with other fields, have a good year as a group, see nice numbers the next year, but then again, get enough amateurs out there running fields with no regard for safety and just the opposite happens. Here in PA the rate for the liability insurance is on average about $15.00 per $1000 of receipts, that is only 1.5%, not bad at all when you consider the possibilities. IF it is done correctly, the receipts used to calculate this is merely the receipts for field play and not cost of paint, guns, etc etc etc. There is a seperate BOP policy that can be written for the store itself where you would insure your contents, products, etc and will run much less than the aforementioned figures. Without fields "policing" themselves and paying attention to detail, the insurance costs can, and will, skyrocket somewhere down the road, it is just the law of large numbers. This was part of the issue that came up a bit over a year ago where the association at the time, lost their carrier. That was not due to the field that I call home as we had no losses, it was the others that just let people go out and play without regard for safety. If any of you wish to speak with me on this subject, I would welcome it, just send me a PM. As Z said above, this is not a money maker for our companies, just a niche situation, and I am not trying to tread on anyone else's toes in this regard, I do not know where he is situated, nor how many states that he can conduct business in, thus, this is not a compeition issue, just offering a helping hand.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:53 PM #18
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What about fields just opening? What is the best option for someone w/out a business history?
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Old 03-02-2006, 12:07 AM #19
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When you do purchase your insurance make sure that the company is licensed to conduct busniess in your state.
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Old 03-02-2006, 10:27 AM #20
Peter S Frentzen
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The companies that I deal with do not have much issue with a start up operation. They do have requirements regarding safety issues, i.e. placement of goggles on signs, chrono booths, no self fill co2, etc, but outside of that, they are quite open to writing start up operations. We can do business in all states with the exception of Hawaii and Puerto Rico and in comparison to other liability exposures, the cost is no where near the exposure.
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Old 03-02-2006, 10:42 AM #21
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As we're discussing insurance, maybe someone can answer the following:

What are the insurance requirements for netting? Where is it required? how much? What strength?
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