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Old 09-11-2003, 08:32 PM #1
tuna
 
 
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ELECTRIC MARKER II !!! What do u think?

I was reading an earlier thread where teddypan introduced the idea of using two spinning disks in a paintball gun like a baseball-throwing machine thing does and I was ver intrigued:

(A) Because this would allow ludicrous rates of fire, basically it would be able to shoot as fast as anything can load probably well over 100bps.

(B) Could possibly be much more consistant (accurate) then other markers because it would be much easier to regulate the spinning speed of a couple disks than the speed of a cycling bolt.

(C) A gun using this design could possibly be smaller and lighter than a traditional paintball gun.

The only problem to me was that the thread suggested the use of electricity and batteries as propellant. I don't understand why people want to use electricity. The fact is, we can store way more energy into a 4500psi tank than we can store into a similarly sized battery, especially for short bursts of high power- batteries are much more suited to a continuous stream of power. Anyway, I suggest that this great idea by teddypan would be even better if it was powered by gas just like a regular pbgun.

Hear me out:

The disks would be very low weight, and activating a switch would allow an extremely small amount of gas to spin the wheels up to the RPM that is needed to shoot paintballs at the desired velocity. When the trigger is activated simultaneously a gate allows a paintball to be feeded and an extra burst of air is used to give the wheels the extra "torque" (I'm not sure how to describe this) needed to propel the paintball without the disks slowing down.

The reason I say that a gun made in this fashion could be much more consistant than a gun made in the normal fashion is because it would be relatively easy to regulate the speed of the wheels to a nearly exact number. For example, if you wanted the disks to both spin at 1000rpm (im obviously pulling this number out of nowhere) then the maybe you would provide enough gas for them to spin at 1050rpm and an electronic governor would make the precise measurements to make both wheels exactly 1000rpm.

The most major problem would be that the wheels would have to be perfectly spaced for every paintball, but I believe that this could be solved, maybe by using a system where the space betweent he wheels would very depending on the size of the paintballs.

I don't know, TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK!!!
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Old 09-11-2003, 08:42 PM #2
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i dont see how spinning a pair of discs with air would be easy or efficient. especially to the speed you'd need to shoot the balls as fast as you want.

but while reading it i got the idea, have your two discs powered by a battery and the trigger pull causes the balls to load instead of shoot
have something pull them down.


but some flaws i just thought of:
1.how do you get the balls between the wheels and get them all the way in before you shoot the wheels?
2.wouldn't loading balls onto a couple of wheels with paddles bust the balls? i use a wheel with paddles because soft/grippy wheels wouldn't be appropriate b/c they'd destroy pb's.
3.if the balls arent spinning at the exact same speed and on the exact same plane, i could see this being very inaccurate. shooting bursts of air in two different directions is not only hard to do but hard to get them exactly the same psi/dwell.

basically...the limiting factors are that the wheels would have to be exactly the same in all aspects otherwise their would be bad consequences...for a demo...pick up a basketball.
push harder with one hand than the other straight up in the air...you wont have a shot going straight up or straight ahead of you.
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Old 09-11-2003, 10:52 PM #3
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The disks would have to have quite some weight to them, so that they don't lose momentum and there would be no shootdown. Every time a paintball hits the wheels, it would slow the wheels down. To move the heavier wheels, more air is neede. Efficiency would be crap because it isn't a tiny burst of air to fire a ball, it's a longer stream of air to shoot maybe even one ball at a time.

When the ball hets the wheels, most likely it will break, and when it breaks it will be hell to clean out the mechanism. Also, it would make the wheels slippery, causing the paint to curve terribly.

loading would be a problem because balls would be popped back up into the feed tube, but if you can figure out an air assist or something that would help, but still kill effieciency even more.

This gun would be wider than any other paintball gun out there. Spinning disks side-by-side with air chambers leading to them and the mechanisms making them spin will bulk up the gun like hell.

Another issue would be the distance between teh wheels. Every paintball is a different diameter. If it is too small for the wheels, it will hit one more than the other and spin waaaay off. If it is too big, even if you find a way to keep breakages from happening, it will break anyway because it will be squeezed between the wheels.

It wouldn't be easy to regulate, because you'd need some complex eletronic system to measure RPM's and figure how much more air of what pressure for how long is needed to tkae the speed back up to 300 fps capabilities.

If you want to try it, go for it, but it will take TONS of troubleshooting before you get it right.
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Old 09-12-2003, 06:09 AM #4
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centripital force, that could cause a problem also. Two un-homogeous disk can create a centripital force.

This would work.

http://4hv.org/attach/spinningdiscpaintballthingy.gif

Use buffing wheels so it can grip the ball.

As far as a motor. Try finding a 3000-8000rpm electric motor.

These could do,considering you use two, this would in effect double your pleasure, double your fun!

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ultra.htm
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Old 09-15-2003, 09:42 PM #5
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Hmm seems almost exact to my old idea
Its here somwhere...
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Old 09-15-2003, 11:14 PM #6
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Also, the 2 wheels will act like a gyroscope so it will be harder to aim the gun.
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Old 09-16-2003, 01:00 AM #7
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Ok, I already had mentioned something to that nature, but your right, there will be a gyroscopic effect.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:02 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by thorasauras
Ok, I already had mentioned something to that nature, but your right, there will be a gyroscopic effect.

Thanks,
Chris
Oh sorry, didn't catch that part.
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Old 09-17-2003, 05:41 AM #9
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basically unless you work at nasa, it aint gonna happen.
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:37 PM #10
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Have a rear ball loader. You can put a hopper on the top of the marker, but have a warpfeed style feed into the back of the marker with a downslope towards the wheels. That would fix the loading problems.

Pneumatic ram with a rounded nub to stop excess balls going into the chamber....

But the wheel thingy... your looking at making some aluminum or other lightweight material wheel with the the centers cored out of them sorta like a bike rim, where the excess wheel form "spokes". A thin piece of rubber (rubber has a lot of flaws) or something like tha to coat it (I can just see that flying off at high RPM...) steel ball bearings inside of the wheels might require a steel core.....

You could only feasibly have two wheels, one on the top and one on the bottom.... and that wouldn't be nearly accurate... and try timing those together.
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Old 09-18-2003, 06:33 PM #11
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hey personaly i think its a great idea and it wouldnt be that hard but to regualte the speed of the wheels with my idea...

first of if you mount the wheels vertically, the only gyroscopic effect with make it so you cant title the gun on its side

second you could get ride of the bolt and vert feeding tube and just have a warp feed feed to the back of the gun

as for the wheels, just use small rubber wheels to grip the paintball but dont put them on top of each other, instead put them behind each other and have a flat plate on the bottom so that the paintball will squeaze inbetween the plate and the wheel and excelerate it forward. plus if you have the wheels spring loaded, like she shocks on your car, then it wont matter the size of the paintball

as for the power to drive the wheels i agree that a battery would be way to heavy not to mention that the air powered designed would be dumb because it will be way to complicated and if you are using air, why use the spinning wheels anyways. but really the best way to go is have it gas power...
think about it, it would be light and farely simple and you would use a small engine like in remote controled airplanes. but really the only problem besides nose which you could get a good muffiler so quite it down or sound proffing material is to, is to control the speed of the wheels unless your going to have alot of gears

another plus with using gas power besides saving weight because you dotn need a tank is that you will reduce the side of you gun because you dont have a bulky tank

to get an idea of what im thinking look at this
......................wheels
.............=====0000= <warf weed
.....engine> XXXL l l
........................L_l

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Old 10-15-2003, 08:36 PM #12
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there was a thread on this on automags.org, they diecided it was not plausible, because the discs would either need to be enormous or they would have to spin rediculously (SP?) fast
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Old 10-27-2003, 03:32 PM #13
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Here is a picture of a pitching machine, I used to have one just like this. This thing can pitch a baseball at up to 104 MPH. I beleive paintballs travel approximately twice that speed, maybe a little faster.

A gasoline powered motor might be able to get the "discs" spinning fast enough to get it up to that speed. But you would definetly have to find a way to muffle the sound. Has anyone ever heard how loud one of those gasoline powered RC cars are? I would guess it to be around how loud that is.

The discs could not be set to be spinning at exactly the same speed. This would not work very well. It would create a "knuckle ball" like shot. The ball would not spin. You would want this to work like a flatline barrel on a Tippman. To get some back spin, the top wheel would need to be set slower than the bottom wheel.

thorasauras... in your drawing of the wheels, you have them side-by-side. This would also not work. If you had the wheels side by side, it would create a "curve ball" like shot. The ball would have top spin and sink dramatically. You need to have the wheels on top of one-another as shown in the picture.

Althougha paintball does not have seems like a baseball, it is stil capable of these kinds of spins causing it to react differently each time.

I Think the warpfeed through the back of the gun would work with a downward slope, and perhaps a belt (like a conveyer belt... I probably spelled that wrong) within the gun would aid the paintballs to roll faster toward the wheels to get higher ROF.

I think this is possible and i like this idea. It would be great if someone had the tools to create and test this gun.
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Old 10-27-2003, 05:39 PM #14
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you guys seem to be neglecting the fact that these wheels will most likely shred the ball


if you want any more resons why this is a retarded idea, read my and everybody else with an 1q over 150's posts on the last thread that featured a topic such as this


its just an overall retarded idea
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Old 10-27-2003, 05:46 PM #15
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http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hin g+machine

knock yourself out
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Old 10-28-2003, 05:30 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by devilchild1722
.... and everybody else with an 1q over 150's posts on the last thread that featured a topic such as this
an 1q?? ok Well I think it could somehow be made to work.
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Old 10-28-2003, 06:29 PM #17
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IQ, please excuse my typing skills
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