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Old 02-12-2006, 01:31 PM #1
MAD4LYF (Banned)
 
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The TRUE story of the VENTS Delay....

I was speaking to a player from a local D1 PSP team. His day job is in textiles and adhesives... I was told by him that a competing company produced the glue/adhesive for the vents goggle system's foam. There was in fact a defect, the glue was absorbing the compound that makes the mask flexible and the glue was hardening/falling off... Vents is currently in a lawsuit w/ this textile company, that is what is holding everything up.

I will speak w/ this guy again tonight at a closed door team practice at our facility and try and get specifics but that is the general jist of it.
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Old 02-12-2006, 01:49 PM #2
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Ask him when he thinks theyll be out.
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Old 02-12-2006, 02:02 PM #3
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It's doubtful he'll know. A lawsuit can get dragged through court for months.
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Old 02-12-2006, 08:53 PM #4
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At least tell us the team. Well that really doesn't matter because it's not true. All BS.
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Old 02-12-2006, 08:59 PM #5
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why would vents let a competing company produce the glue? (and i highly doubt they wouldnt know it was a competing company who would produce the glue)
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:19 PM #6
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I think he means the Vents adhesive supplier is a competitor to that players
company. Vents (NPS) doesn't make the glue for their masks, they buy it from a supplier just like everyone else.

This is interesting tidbit, but the only person who could confirm this would be someone from Vents /NPS or Manike, but I doubt they would comment on this if there was ongoing legal proceedings.
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:21 PM #7
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lol, the company is competing gainst the other glue company.
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:24 PM #8
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i believe it. that would make sense why the vents are on backorder. i have heard RUMORS that the vents will infact be coming out later in may. my information is based upon rumors so if anyone has some solid evidence then please post.
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:42 PM #9
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sharples is exactly right.

They (vents) aren't talking because they legally cant talk about it.... hence the reason they aren't explaining what is taking so long.
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:48 PM #10
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Actually the real story straight from my field owner who knows alot about NPS. Supposedly they were ready for Texas Open but they had the wrong type of foam placed on them. So they were just gonna send them back have the foam replaced and be ready for the Tourny. Well it just so happens that the company that produces the foam was still celebrating the Chinese New Year so they couldnt get it done in time for the Tourny.

Expect them out soon though, but in very short supply seeing as the massive amounts of back order placed on these
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Old 02-12-2006, 10:04 PM #11
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"knows alot about NPS"?

Wow great source.
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Old 02-12-2006, 10:26 PM #12
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IDK seems unlikely that these issues would happen, but it could happen I guess. This seems like a logical reason why they have been backordered though.
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Old 02-12-2006, 10:37 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
Actually the real story straight from my field owner who knows alot about NPS. Supposedly they were ready for Texas Open but they had the wrong type of foam placed on them. So they were just gonna send them back have the foam replaced and be ready for the Tourny. Well it just so happens that the company that produces the foam was still celebrating the Chinese New Year so they couldnt get it done in time for the Tourny.

Expect them out soon though, but in very short supply seeing as the massive amounts of back order placed on these
that would be the lens makers..but your story is close enough
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:18 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharples
This is interesting tidbit, but the only person who could confirm this would be someone from Vents /NPS or Manike, but I doubt they would comment on this if there was ongoing legal proceedings.
assuming they are in legal procedures. Yes they could, all lawsuits in trial stage are open to the public unless closed by a judge. there used to be a website that you could search all pending trials in the U.S. if there was a NPS vs. glue company, you could find it there. there are laws saying that if you want it you can have it, again unless sealed by a judge... the judge also needs a reason to seal it, defamation of character, national security, ect. ect. if its still in hearing an appeal to close can be made to ajudge and they can close it if they want to. closed hearings are fairly common becuase many lawsuits are trivial and some even false. judges close them in order to protect defendants while determining whether or not the case even deserves to go to trial. after that its very difficult to seal something. If there was a hearing NPS would have nothing to hide becuase this isnt thier fault... the only reason i could see NPS trying to hide this is because of all the pre-orders they have. if it comes out that this will be tied up in court for 6 months to a year, they will lose most of those orders. By keeping us in the dark they keep that pre order.

personally i think this is all BS and mis information from competitors/ anti empire/ anti NPS people. I also believe they are just having problems with the manufacturing complanies in china and the whole new year thing. after that they still need some time to stockpile for shipping... Mid may would be about the time they would come out if this is the case. (new year plus stockpile plus shipping) If there was a glue problem why hasnt it shown up on the prototype vents that people bought at cup? or on any of the pros who have them or the Avatars. Manike said the onthing different on the prodcution model is that the zip tie is being replaced with a plastic tab.

Manike---you probably hate replying to these because its been happening since october, however I think an honest straight foward answer to your customer base is in order. If there is closed hearing, as far as i know you can say " theres a closed hearing" without any legal raamifiactions. if its manufacturing, tell us what exactly is the problem. I really hate to call you/ NPS out on this beause I respect you, and I like the products NPS produces. But as a customer I hate buying from companies that intentionally lie or decieve thier customers. So... is this tuna Dolphin safe? thanks for understaning the customer point of view.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MAD4LYF
I was speaking to a player from a local D1 PSP team. His day job is in textiles and adhesives... I was told by him that a competing company produced the glue/adhesive for the vents goggle system's foam. There was in fact a defect, the glue was absorbing the compound that makes the mask flexible and the glue was hardening/falling off... Vents is currently in a lawsuit w/ this textile company, that is what is holding everything up.

I will speak w/ this guy again tonight at a closed door team practice at our facility and try and get specifics but that is the general jist of it.
I would also like to analyze this statement for a second:

1)I was speaking to a player from a local D1 PSP team. His day job is in textiles and adhesives...
- ok beliveable, but it still seems convienent that a D1 paintball player is high enough up in this company to know what contracts that they are competing for ( this has to be true becuase otherwise he wouldnt know anything about NPS needing glue). ANd know the legal matters of other glue companies ( this would also have to be true..becuase he told you).

2) I was told by him that a competing company produced the glue/adhesive for the vents goggle system's foam.
- ok if he didnt have the contract why would he know what the glue NPS was ordering was for... when i order thing like adhesives, i name the matirial to be glues, not the product... in this case, silicone rubber and foam. plently of paintball products usse that, not just masks.

3)There was in fact a defect, the glue was absorbing the compound that makes the mask flexible and the glue was hardening/falling off.
- I have a pretty good knowlage of chemistry... in 4 years of college, with upper chem courses in there i have yet to encounter somthing that can ABSORB(read liquid) one of the chemnical coumpunds out of a dry product. NOT to mention this is illogical... how can the glue absorb a liqud compound and get dryer as a result? also if it was the flexi-compound that was getting absorbed FROM THE MASK then it would be the mask that gets hard not the glue. the clostest thing that is chemically possible here is that the faom was absrobing the glue, and as it dried, made the foam harder, and as a result of there being less glue on the contact point the foam falls off. there would be no effect on the silicone at all. I could get into chemial theory and everything but thats not required yet. basically all you need to know is that its chemically impossible for the glue to absorb one of the compounds in the mask... there could be a chemical reaction, but to absorb it is absurd.

4)Vents is currently in a lawsuit w/ this textile company, that is what is holding everything up.

- The more i look at this the more I think this is a bunch of bunk bs that someone came up with to discredit NPS.

Last edited by TherealInsomniac : 02-13-2006 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:09 PM #15
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^^^ i beleive you just raped what he said and flushed it down the toilet finally somebody takes the time to think these BS statements through and prove that they are infact wrong thank you
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:20 PM #16
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i was picking up my little sister at kindergarden today and saw a kid eating glue. He told me he was a taste tester for glue companies and the glue used on vents goggles didnt taste as good as there compeditors glue so they were going to hold up production on vents goggles till they can get the right taste

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Old 02-13-2006, 04:32 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P8ntball4Less
i was picking up my little sister at kindergarden today and saw a kid eating glue. He told me he was a taste tester for glue companies and the glue used on vents goggles didnt taste as good as there compeditors glue so they were going to hold up production on vents goggles till they can get the right taste
haha.haha.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:32 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P8ntball4Less
i was picking up my little sister at kindergarden today and saw a kid eating glue. He told me he was a taste tester for glue companies and the glue used on vents goggles didnt taste as good as there compeditors glue so they were going to hold up production on vents goggles till they can get the right taste


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Old 02-13-2006, 06:22 PM #19
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they also wouldnt be telling people specific dates/periods that they will be released on they would say something more along the lines of "theres a delay" or theres a "problem"
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:42 PM #20
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o man..............

I ordered my E-vents 4 weeks befor XMAS! XMAS!!!

They better throw in a 06 Empire intimadator for my trouble
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:19 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TherealInsomniac
Manike---you probably hate replying to these because its been happening since october, however I think an honest straight foward answer to your customer base is in order. If there is closed hearing, as far as i know you can say " theres a closed hearing" without any legal raamifiactions. if its manufacturing, tell us what exactly is the problem. I really hate to call you/ NPS out on this beause I respect you, and I like the products NPS produces. But as a customer I hate buying from companies that intentionally lie or decieve thier customers. So... is this tuna Dolphin safe? thanks for understaning the customer point of view.
I've been honest all the way through and I've already told people what the issue is.

The foam and the glue holding it into place are either wrong or not up to standard. I'm a stubborn anal retentive git and I want the quality to be right so I won't let them be released for sale until the foam and glue is correct.

Unfortunately it's taking longer than hoped.

We also got held up by the thermal lens maker not being able to supply us because of the demand for ski goggles, but that should have been resolved now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
Actually the real story straight from my field owner who knows alot about NPS. Supposedly they were ready for Texas Open but they had the wrong type of foam placed on them. So they were just gonna send them back have the foam replaced and be ready for the Tourny. Well it just so happens that the company that produces the foam was still celebrating the Chinese New Year so they couldnt get it done in time for the Tourny.

Expect them out soon though, but in very short supply seeing as the massive amounts of back order placed on these
This is very close to the truth, I had 500 sets of goggles come in and I stopped them being shipped out because, once again the foam and glue was not correct.

Unfortunately there are sometimes communications errors when dealing with oversears manufacturers and they thought that when I said "Don't ever use that foam again on my goggles, and make sure that when you glue the correct foam on you do it the correct way which is... and use this glue..." to mean "Use that crap foam and crap glue until Chinese New year is over and you can get the correct stuff".

Obviously something was lost in the translation which almost caused me to fly to Taiwan and strangle a few people.
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