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Old 02-27-2017, 03:03 PM #1
Lazarusrat
 
 
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CCI Vs CCM

After looking for a CCI VS CCM thread I couldn't find one.

Please feel free to correct me if my info is wrong (which is the reason for the thread)

So the CCI Phantom is based on the Sheridan valve, velocity adjustment is down the barrel while the CCM T2 is WGP sniper based design, velocity adjustment through the IVG once you balance the main regulator just like on a cocker.

Questions for the Nation.
1. Which is easier to maintain?
2. What kind maintainence schedule do they require? Reason why I ask is my '03 cocker needs love verytime I use it. My Shocker NXT needs love about 2 a season. My LV1 is a beast and just needs a tune up at the start of the season. If either the CCI or CCM needs constant love I want to know about in advance.
3. Any real differences in smoothness between pump action on between the two or is all just preference?
4. What are your thoughts on the T2 and Open Class Phantom (with POPs ASA and a reg added)?

Thanks for your input and opinion.
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:14 PM #2
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1 not sure about a cci, but don't think it will need much. a sniper based pump should not need much. I just set it to the field FPS and its good.
ps. your cocker shouldn't need to be adjusted every time you use it.
3. ive found the stroke on a sniper/ cocker pump to be smoother and lighter
4 id go ccm. I preferred stack tubes
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:40 PM #3
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The Phantom is going to be "easier" to maintain as it's a simple gun. With that said, the T2 is easy to maintain as well. A T2 direct from the factory will need very little/no maintenance to shoot well, just clean it. The stroke on the T2 will be smoother. The big difference is price.

The T2 is the way to go for an open class marker if price isn't a concern. If you're on a budget, the Phantom will do you right.
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:59 PM #4
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1. Meh, both are pretty easy and without pneumatics a CCM is easy to set up. Both my phantom and S6.5 have been rock solid. I would say that the phantom is more reliable though. It a simpler system and stood up to my abuse when I was a new player.

2. Both: Clean the breach/bolt after a day. Clean the regs/valves after a couple outings.

3. The stroke on my CCM is much smoother/lighter.

4. I'd take my S6.5 over my open class phantom. I like the pump stroke more and the adjustable feedneck makes it easy to fit any of my loaders for the day.

If you want to get a stock class gun get the phantom, if you want an open class gun get a CCM. If you want an open class gun and are looking for something a bit cheaper than get the sniper/kp3 (I'd probably prefer the sniper).
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:04 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aclark364 View Post
1 not sure about a cci, but don't think it will need much. a sniper based pump should not need much. I just set it to the field FPS and its good.
ps. your cocker shouldn't need to be adjusted every time you use it.
3. ive found the stroke on a sniper/ cocker pump to be smoother and lighter
4 id go ccm. I preferred stack tubes
It shouldn't.... But it does, always has, for some reason I get a re-occurring leak on the 3-way shaft. Doesn't matter what 3 way I have used, stock, Shocktech Bomb, Palmer Micro switch every 3 month I have to take it apart and relube and check o-rings. There might be a bend in the actuating rod which is causing the 3 way shaft to warp and leak and taking the 3 way off relieves the tension and fixes the leak problem. It's been an on going project gun for last decade. Love it to death and will never get rid of it but haven't had the time to mess with it like I did '03-'07 when it was my primary.


Thanks for your input Aclark and Mur.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:05 PM #6
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I'll answer once this is in the correct "vs" section under paintball talk.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:10 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkstache View Post
1. Meh, both are pretty easy and without pneumatics a CCM is easy to set up. Both my phantom and S6.5 have been rock solid. I would say that the phantom is more reliable though. It a simpler system and stood up to my abuse when I was a new player.

2. Both: Clean the breach/bolt after a day. Clean the regs/valves after a couple outings.

3. The stroke on my CCM is much smoother/lighter.

4. I'd take my S6.5 over my open class phantom. I like the pump stroke more and the adjustable feedneck makes it easy to fit any of my loaders for the day.

If you want to get a stock class gun get the phantom, if you want an open class gun get a CCM. If you want an open class gun and are looking for something a bit cheaper than get the sniper/kp3 (I'd probably prefer the sniper).
Bought an Empire Sniper a few years ago to give pump a try. What can I say, I'm hooked, but now I want something a little "Jazzier" because I'm vain like that. (Hey at least I'm honest about it)
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:14 PM #8
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Originally Posted by Pyrate Jim View Post
I'll answer once this is in the correct "vs" section under paintball talk.
Hahahaha... Don't bother as it's not happening.

If I wanted 8 million posts by people who have never played pump, don't know what they are talking about, and half are posting just to get a post count I would have posted this in the VS section.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:25 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarusrat View Post
Bought an Empire Sniper a few years ago to give pump a try. What can I say, I'm hooked, but now I want something a little "Jazzier" because I'm vain like that. (Hey at least I'm honest about it)
The gat you want is a CCM, Inception, or Niche.
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Old 02-27-2017, 06:21 PM #10
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I agree with Murz. I went from a Sniper to a CCM T2, and can hardly play with anything else now.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:58 PM #11
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The gat you want is a CCM, Inception, or Niche.
This x1000.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:58 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarusrat View Post
After looking for a CCI VS CCM thread I couldn't find one.

Please feel free to correct me if my info is wrong (which is the reason for the thread)

So the CCI Phantom is based on the Sheridan valve, velocity adjustment is down the barrel while the CCM T2 is WGP sniper based design,
This is almost backwards.

The Phantom is what's referred to as a Neslon-based design, tracing the valve and moving part layout back to the Nelspot pistol.
Generally-speaking, Nelson-valved pumps are easy to identify because their main components (valve, hammer, and bolt) are all arranged in a straight line in a single body tube.
Phantoms, Trracers (both generations) Gargoyles, the Kingman Hammer, and Buzzards are all examples of Nelson-valved pumps.
You can see in the diagram that when the trigger is pulled the hammer flies backwards, causing the valve to vent forwards, through the hammer and the bolt into the barrel.



Sheridan-based guns trace their lineage to the Sheridan PG pump (and arguably the Nelson 707 and the Crosman air pistols that preceded it).
The main parts of a Sheridan-based gun are arranged into a stack of two tubes, with the valve and hammer below and and the bolt and barrel sitting above them.

Here, in contrast to the Nelson gun, the hammer flies forwards, causing the valve to vent upwards into the bolt.
The WGP Sniper and all the autococker and CCM guns are a subgenre of the Sheridan valve. So, arguably, are various semi-auto designs using the same parts arrangement like the Eclipse Ego and stacked-tube blowbacks like the Spyder and Azodin guns.
It's usually more convenient to adjust the velocity on this type of design because you can access the velocity adjuster directly behind the hammer. With the Nelson arrangement, the hammer spring is buried in the middle of the gun behind the valve.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:16 PM #13
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There's not much comparison in my mind. Sure, they're both pumps, and do their jobs well, but they're each largely suited for different roles. Simply put, the Phantom tends to shine as a stock class player's one-ball wonder, while most CCMs are machine guns, capable of precision, but begging to be shaken.

The price tags are quite different as well. Try both, love both.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:43 PM #14
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Originally Posted by Castro #66 View Post
There's not much comparison in my mind. Sure, they're both pumps, and do their jobs well, but they're each largely suited for different roles. Simply put, the Phantom tends to shine as a stock class player's one-ball wonder, while most CCMs are machine guns, capable of precision, but begging to be shaken.

The price tags are quite different as well. Try both, love both.
Yeah, quite different valve trains and purposes. A ccm vs mvp comparison is a little more apt if you are looking at open class guns. Those are both close in price new and used. Both have a light smooth pump stroke. My mvp fits me like a glove with a 17 cu in tank and a 50 rd hopper. It's perfect for play vs electros. If you don't care for the mvp's sound signature the v2 hammer from vintage makes it sound nice and crisp.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:32 PM #15
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My first pump was a Phantom. I LOVED that marker. I bought all kinds of parts to change the setup from stock to open, or from vertical air or back bottle or 12 grams or co2 or HPA. It was fun to tinker with. Standard pump or undercocking, ring detents or freak barrel, different grips, T-Stock, stick feed or hopper.
After a couple years, I got a chance to try an autococker and decided to sell my phantom and buy a Prostock cocker body with CCM Parts, I enjoyed that for a year. Then I got a CCM SS-25 which was a solid shooter. After a year, I sold that and got a CCM 6.5 which was an incredible half block marker. I loved that for almost 2 years then had the opportunity to get the one of the prototype Full Body J2 2017. They are manufactured to very precise tolerances, their customer service is great, a little better than Mike at Phantom but he is good to work with too.
Phantom's are tinker guns, take them apart and adjust. CCM's are shooters that you don't tinker with. You just clean em and play them. It's a set it and forget it. On occasion you can take them apart and polish the internals, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.
At one point when I had my SS-25 I bought a Phantom as a backup marker, but I virtually never played it because It just didn't compare to the Autococker "feel", so I sold it.
I am a one gun player, it will always be a CCM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:15 PM #16
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As pointed out, phantoms are Nelson based and snipers are Sheridan based. I started pump play with changing my mech cocker into a pump and did open class. I then bought a vsc phantom. I like how light a stock class phantom with 12g is. The phantom is modular, you can always put an open class body on the phantom. I mainly use my pgp with a stock now a days, but I've also been known to play speed ball with a sling shot before. It's all about what you prefer. I've never felt too out gunned with my open class sniper(sans AT), except when I first started playing pump.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:27 PM #17
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To the OP. Sounds like something is causing the leaking on the three way, maybe the timing rod. Maybe I've been lucky, but all I've ever had to do was give my markers some oil and grease. If you put a pump kit on it, the leaking on the front block is negated.
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:16 AM #18
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I have shot autocockers most of my paintball life. Besides the Tippmann Pro-Lite I first started out with and the couple Tippmanns after, and the Shoebox shockers. When I first started playing pump I had a phantom that I ended up getting on a trade with another gun. I shot it a couple of times in the backyard then traded it for a cocker. I eventually got me another phantom because something about them kept drawing me to them. You would think going from a cocker with a 16" one piece dye ultralite, revy, wgp tornado drop and on/off running a 68/4500 nitro duck on a ebladed cocker, then a VF tactical, to running it on a GX-4 to running the same setup on the GX-4 that I just converted to a pump would be no change. Nope, that was wrong. It was all I could do to get a couple of kills. For some reason it felt unnatural. I sold the gun and kept a few of the parts and came across a CCM series 5. Running the same barrel, a 50 round hopper, lapco drop stock and a 13/3000 tank. It was exponentially better, however, for me anyway it couldn't hold a candle to my phantoms. Whereas I struggled to get kills with any cocker I turned into a pump the phantom was like a dream come true. Even when I converted my VSC to open pump it did so much better than Snipers I had.
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