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Old 01-07-2006, 04:12 PM #1
cubdriver (Banned)
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changing from fpo to byop ?

has anyone changed there field from field paint only to byop what are your thoughts and what have been the results of this change. we are kicking around this idea but I would like to know some of the consequences of this decision thanks for you input
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Old 01-07-2006, 04:52 PM #2
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it is a good i dea to run byop just have them pay a surcharge like 10 bucks so you can still make money and almost all players dont mind that is what the feild i used to work at did
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Old 01-07-2006, 05:26 PM #3
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if you're trying to attract customers, prolly a great move. thing is, if you've been a fpo place for a while now you will need a plan to spread the word. offer some sort of free day play days. the word will get around quickly. sometimes you have to give to receive. if you already charge like $20-30 for play, adding another $10 for byop won't be much incentive. a little more info on your field, prices and why you're considering byop now may spark a bit more input on your topic.
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:51 AM #4
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We charge $15 field fee with your own equipment, but if you buy a bag of 500 or more you get in free .
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:45 AM #5
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We have always had a BYOP policy for the walk-on and rec players and it has paid off. By offering some options players will come back. For our league series and tournaments we have a FPO policy.
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Old 01-08-2006, 08:26 AM #6
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Now mind me I am no expert on this but every time I see a field switch to bring your own, I instantly see it as an act of desperation. "We are not making it so lets try something new." I liken it to the stores who try to match Paintball Gear or the $139.95 Tippmann Power Pacs from Sports Authority. You can't do it and survive. Focus on added benefit of your service, playing environment and experience your customers leave with. Don't even consider the snotty nose tourney guys opinions because if they are your target market, you are doomed. Try pushing memberships to repeat customers with a considerable discount for paint purchase. Use a good high end paint and charge for it. Make the church and corporate groups pay big money for paint because they don't know or care what it should cost....they are looking for value on entertainment $$$. If they have fun and spend $80 dollars in 5 hours, don't apologize. I do that at bars and retaurants every week. Some numbers:

What an average tourney guy spends at a BYOP field:

$20 entry, $5 air. 1000 rounds of shiznit paint from Walmart $20. cost= $45 for the day to him, $25 profit for you.

Average for FPO field:

$0 entry with membership, $5 air 1000 rounds Inferno or Evil $40. cost to him, $45 with better paint. Profit for you $25 so it is a wash.

But here is the kicker...the church, corporate or birthday guys who are willing and ancious to pay you $15 entry, $10 for rentals $5 for "coveralls" and $90 a case will bring their own or buy your $35 dollar shiznit because that is what you have become.

Offer the best entertainment value and you will make money. Don't kid yourself by saying you are doing it for the kids and don't relly want to make money anyway. That is surrender followed soon by failure. Don't say how your competitors are this and that. Doesn't matter. Your competition is the Mall, Theater, dirt bike shop and recreatinal drugs. People are going to spend their money for fun....Why not give it to them and take their $$$. They will be happy to give them to you.
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Old 01-08-2006, 08:31 AM #7
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EZ air ... totally agree with you.....
cheap paint is everywhere... but to find a good field...(owner, clients, location, and equipment...) not so easy...

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Old 01-09-2006, 09:50 AM #8
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[quote=EZ Air]Now mind me I am no expert on this but every time I see a field switch to bring your own, I instantly see it as an act of desperation.

this is actually what i have seen. haveing a 13 year history this was one of my biggest worries. the method to my maddness was to try and to get store and field prices on paint the same. thanks for the replies
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:54 AM #9
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I guess I would say I influence the fields that I play at (consoltent I would say), but to anybody who is thinking of it go for it. This idea came up in a certain field, and we made 1 day a week a BYOP day, thease days are packed full of people, and they charge a 30.00 entry fee. Things are looking up for this business. It is a great move, and for all of those who charge 90.00 a case for poor paint, you guys are going to get killed..... Nuthing explaines that markup.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:34 AM #10
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we charge 10$entry fee,and a byop fee of 8$.are cheapest paint is about 47$ a case,and its very good paint like premium.then the prices go up to about 60$ for are most expensive paint.
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:19 PM #11
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Arch Angel,

Truly no offense to you, but you are the guys I am talking about in my post. "Mower of Muppets" as you call yourself and your friends are a fields enemy. When you see a bunch of your friends and think there is a big turn-out that day, you see what you want to see. Those guys don't bring is money enough to build a business around them. What fields need are rec players or guys that have never played before and maybe never will again. Producing a fun, safe environment is the ticket....$90 cases are your reward.
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:42 PM #12
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Exactly EZ.
I would rather a rec player come out once every 6 months and pay full price than a tourny player every weekend with a discount.

The only way I would ever consider BYOP is one day per month. Then again... nah.

here's an example:
this past saturday we were packed with rec players
We made $X
We had 3 staff
We sold X cases at full price

this past sunday we were packed with tourny players
we made 1/3 $X
we had 8 staff
we sold 3/4X cases at 1/2 price
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:13 PM #13
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I'm personally considering opening a field in the next 12-18 months, and one thing I've come up with is this idea to just make the whole experience fun for everybody. So here's a basic outline of what I'm going to do.

First off, tourney players bore me, so my objective will not be to cater to them. They take more staff to mange, they piss off the rec/rental players with what I've commonly seen as VERY unsportman like conduct, and they usually bring their own paint (purchased in bulk). So I really don't think my field will cater to them at all.

Another thing is that the MAJORITY of paintballers play rec ball. People just want to go out into the field and shoot at their friends. They want to play Rambo. Which is why I think the industry is really going the route of scenario play.

I'll give you an example. There's a field where I play that has no entry fee, no BYOP fees, and only charges $3 a fill on CO2 and HPA. The guy runs the games every Saturday for about 6-7 hours. There are multiple games throughout the day and everybody walks away with a smile on their face.

How does the guy make his money? He sells paint, for those who want to buy it, at a reasonable price, rents gear to those who don't have it, sells gear through his store, and (and this is the key) he runs big scenario games about 10 times a year.

Now, the scenario game is where he can make his best money. Figure he usually has about 100-150 people come out for a weekend long game at $65 per person. That's $6500-$9750 in registrations alone. He usually charges about $65 per case for quality paint, and about 1/2 of the people at the game buy from him, so there's another $3250-$4875 for a single weekend.

Now, add that most everyone who comes to his games appreciates him for not gouging them on paint and carry-on fees and what he ends up with is a LOYAL group of people who buy their paint and gear from him. Couple that with the fact that this loyalty means people will ref for him for FREE, so he keeps his costs under control.

That's $9750-$14625 about 10 times a year, plus the $400-$1000 he makes every Saturday with his free games and whatever he sells through his store which is probably $2000-$3000 a month. That's about an average of $12950-$20,000 10 months out of the year. Granted, it's not making him a millionaire, but he probably grosses about $200,000 a year by putting on free games. That's the kind of business I would like.
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:05 PM #14
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Fuzzy Duck,

I hear everything you say. Unfortunately, you do not live in the real world. I put on one tourney a year, charge $500 entry and sell 500 cases of paint at $80 each. I must make at least 60K that weekend using your math. If it were that easy, 25% of all fields and stores would not have failed last year. I wish you guys well. I really do. But I will stick with what works for me.
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:18 PM #15
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have like every monday a BYOP day for 20.00 entry but if u buy paint it's only 10, or 55 for case and entry and air.... that's what my field does... works 4 all
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:29 PM #16
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EZair - totally agree

Isn't always funny you never hear " Can I bring my own Beer to your bar " at the local club or " I bought this steak at publix - cook it for me " at your local eatery? hell you never hear anyone even suggest it
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:01 PM #17
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my local field did that and wouldnt let us play for free even though we had their paint so they lost a team that paid about $400+ a month so make sure if you do always think of the long run.

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Old 01-10-2006, 09:33 PM #18
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Originally Posted by Crash STP
EZair - totally agree

Isn't always funny you never hear " Can I bring my own Beer to your bar " at the local club or " I bought this steak at publix - cook it for me " at your local eatery? hell you never hear anyone even suggest it
^--True you never hear that, but its also not like most pople can play in thier house. Thats like saying you can have a steak if you come to my place, but I'l going to charge you 90 bucks for the 30 walmart steak. I can have a beer and eat a steak wherever I want, but I cant play paintball. EZ I understand what you are saying, the turny guys make it hard for the rec players and your profits come from paint, but you cant tell me that you would rather a recballer drop 150 for a day of fun and never come back or a 5 man team come for practice every weekend and spend 50 a pice? I agree that both sides suck, but there has to be a middle ground. Personaly I think FPO would be fine if the prices are fair. Ive paid 100 bucks for a case of paint I could have gotten at my proshop for 60, and that 60 is after the proshop markup. I say play FPO, but only mark up cases like 5 or 10 bucks from retail. Discounts like free air or free entery for team practice would also be an incentive to get those repeat customers back, but what sells me most on a field or shop is the staff. I know were not here to give a free ticket, and that $ is important. Paintball is a buisness after all, but remember your roots! You were a player once too and how much would you have played if it cost you 200 to play for a day?

Thats just my 2 cents, take it or leave it, but either way happy ballin'
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:07 PM #19
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Dear Players,
When questioned about the issue of FIELD PAINT ONLY as required at our field, I like to take the time to point out a few things to think over. As the only Paintball Field in the country to offer 24 different playing fields (Including a ONE+ ACRE CASTLE, another CASTLE, a FIVE ACRE TOWN with 1 & 2 STORY BUILDINGS, a FIREBASE, a STILT VILLAGE, STOCKADE FORT with TEE PEES, 4 SPEEDBALL COURTS, 2 LIGHTED FIELDS for NIGHT PLAY, plus 15 other fields full of trenches, earth berms, bunkers, tunnels, bridges, and assorted buildings), FREE LODGING in 30 BUNKHOUSES, a FULL REC CENTER (POOL TABLE, PING PONG, FOOSBALL, FOOD, BEVERAGES, LIVE BANDS), BON FIRE AREA, PICNIC PAVILLION with FREE GRILL, SWIMMING POND, FISHING POND, HORSE SHOES, and VOLLEYBALL; I would like you to consider the following partial list of expenses that are involved in providing this top notch facility for your paintball enjoyment.

Cost of paying for 122 acres of Land
Cost of paying taxes on 122 acres of land.
Maintaining roads on 122 acres of land.
Clearing briars, fallen logs, trash, etc. on 122 acres of land.
Repairing and Maintaining over 50 buildings; painting, broken boards, electrical, plumbing, etc.
Building and erecting new structures; buildings, bunkers, walls, etc.
Paying for 7 Sani-pots every month.
Utilities; Propane, Electricity, Dumpster, Oil.
Buying and Maintaining 3 work Trucks, Bus, Case Tractor, Brush Hog.
Buying and Maintaining mowers, weedwackers, chain saws, tools, hoses, ladders, etc. 11) Gas and Oil for above vehicles and tools.
Buying and Maintaining two Scuba Compressors, 3 high pressure fill stations, and 10 bottle fill set up.
Buying and Maintaining 8 CO2 Fill Stations and Scales.
Buying and installing New 12' Safety Netting every two years.
Buying and Maintaining Rental Guns, Masks, Parts, Camos, Bottles, etc.
Buying and Maintaining Microwaves, Commercial Freezer, Commercial Refridgerator, Commercial Cooking Steamers, Stainless Steel Utensils, etc for serving food.
Buying a 3-line Phone System and paying Phone Bills.
Buying and Maintaining Office Equipment; Computers, Printers, Fax Machine, Copier, Typewriter, Laminating Machine, Desks, Chairs, Storage Cabinets, etc.
Training Safety Certified Referees and providing them with Backpacks, Ref Shirts, Whistles, First Aid Kits, Hand Held Chronos, 6 Radar Chronos, Squeegees, Lens Cleaner, Water Bottles, Paper Towels, etc.
Training Service Technicians and Buying their Tools, Testing Equipment, and Parts.
Advertising; Flyers, Brochures, Web Page, Ads in Magazines, Ads in Newspapers, traveling to and purchasing booth space at big events.
Employing a full time Operations Manager, Field Manager, Head Referee, and Myself.
Employing up to 30 part time refs to run the games.
Paying for Liablity Insurance.
Paying for Insurance on the 50 buildings.
Hiring top Scenario Producers like MXSPORTZ to run Scenario Games.

I trust that the above listing will enlighten you to some of the actual costs of running a facility of the size and quality of E.M.R. PAINTBALL PARK and explain the necessity of allowing Field Paint Only. Without making Profit on Paintballs, we could not keep the doors open and constantly improve our fields and games for your enjoyment. At $75.47 plus PA sales tax of $4.53 per Case of 2000 paintballs, I feel that it is a very fair price for what you receive at our facility. Thank-you for your time.
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:22 PM #20
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Not entirely on topic but I was trollin' and saw this thread and I just wanna give all the guys that cater to the rec player a big Cause yeah, In rochester I don't have a place to go if I wanna bring my friends that aren't seriously into paintball. And yeah so what if I'm paying a bit more for crappy paint it's worth it to NOT have to see my best friend get hit 12 times by some snivleing little brat with ramping and a clown jersey on.....And yeah where is that paintball park???
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:47 PM #21
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I see no reason to have BYOP if you can provide paint at a reasonable price.
Charge what a store is gonna charge ($35-$60) and have a $10 entry and $5 for all day air( if you have a compressor). When I see a field that charges an outlandish amount ($90-$100 per case). I start fishing for BYOP nights or coupons or discounts. no need for that if you can keep it simple and reasonable. Yeah, your profits are not gonna spike 1 day out of the week, but the will be more consistant. you will also be busy through out the week instead of just 1 or2 days out of the week.
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