Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

ReplyScenario Ups
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-07-2005, 10:46 AM #1
Harbinger[TG] (Banned)
BOS
 
Harbinger[TG]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: HERE
 has been a member for 10 years
Night Rules Discussion

HAD TO REPOST

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercOfTeamARES
"RED OR YELLOW!?!?!?!" screams cut through the night at Wayne's World Grand Finale this past weekend and those screams were then followed by massive firefights between players on the same side or players from oppsoite sights with no idea of who got hit where and when and how much. This was then followed by costly minutes of argueing who shot who first.

PEOPLE!!! WE NEED BETTER NIGHT TIME RULES/CONDITIONS!!!

I have nightvision and it was useless because of players on both my team and the opposing team using floodlights. The nightvision worked but I wasnt gonna have my eyeball burned blind cus someone on my own team coming from the opposite direction might hit me with a floodlight. So I hardly used it. And I dont like argueing with people on who hit who were.....its a waste of time and a good way to make a bad name for yourself. MY suggestions to make nighttime play actually fair and enjoyable:

(1) Sell glow in the dark paint for nighttime events.
(2) assign each side a colored mini-glowstick in their player package. They wear it somewhere on their back or butt so they dont give themselves away while creeping forward thru the woods. This way you have less friendly fire accidents (we accidently lit up a guy on our side with a DM5/qloader system and an A-5RT and it wasnt pretty) and the enemy still cant see you coming...if you get shot up then you werent paying attention to your flanks and deserve it (lol)
(3) Control the night games by issueing specific missions to to a specific number of players at an exact time with a time limit. If you insert and you missed a group heading out then you wait at base and defend the base while another mission develops. This way you dont have random people walking around at night shooting at anyone who moves.
(4)OR.....have just ONE night mission: everyone inserting attack the enemy base and overrun the enemy base....no medics. As players get shot out they must go to the reinsertion point (not their base) and report their badge # to a ref. In the end the side that overruns the enemy base first or with the least players shot out wins the mission.

We worked at night so hard in order to get a tactical advantage....creeping through the woods, covering all angles, making little noise, moving ever so slowly just to give up our position and the tactical advantage by having to yell "RED OR YELLOW!!!??" at the first shadow we see. SOMEONE SHOULD MENTION THIS TO THE POWERS THAT DECIDE AND LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE THESE NIGHT GAMES BETTER.

Pepi "MERC" Reyes
Co-Cpt.
A.R.E.S.
Harbinger[TG] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2005, 10:49 AM #2
Harbinger[TG] (Banned)
BOS
 
Harbinger[TG]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: HERE
 has been a member for 10 years
REPOSTS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger[TG]
glow balls are allowed, they just werent for sale...tracerballs are also allowed

part of the game is knowing when not to yell anything giving the position away.

the only real way is to make sure each side has about the same number of NODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercOfTeamARES
I dont walk around at night yelling "RED or YELLOW".....for no reason. Its when you stumble across other players. So you're telling me that at night when you guys walk down a path and see 12 shadows in front of you that you know whether to say something or not? Johnny was with us when we stumbled across a yellow team's flank and he saw the nasty result from people not being able to tell who was who. We asked Red or yellow...they replied "are you red or yellow" then we said "Red or yellow or take the hit" and they opened fire and we opened fire then we spent 15 minutes argueing who hit who. Something needs to be done so that there is some level of recognition on the field.....usually we use "Hotdog" and the reply is "Ketchup" or something like that but how do you convey that to 1000 players??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilio
Pushed the East field border around 11pm, didn't have any problem with my NV and the spot lights. My eyes are still working There were a few red over there that had NV also.

Use a light to confirm arm band color, easy enough.

As far as arguing about whether they are hit or not...
1) Put one on them and ask them to take the hit.
2) If they don't, give them a few more and repeat along with a discription of what they are wearing, how they are facing, ect.
3) If that doesn't work, move in closer, let loose with a nice string and adjust so it hits their mask.

If there's a trend that the opposition has been annoying enough, skip step two and go directly to three.

Night rules don't need to be changed, just the behavior of the morons who think they can get away with cheating. For that matter, same thing holds true for the day play.
Harbinger[TG] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2005, 11:26 AM #3
MercOfTeamARES
Ezekiel 25:17
 
MercOfTeamARES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
My final word: everyone on the threads talks as if everyone they shoot at plays with a sense of fairness. I have been shot often and I yell out and actually WALK OUT every single time (my teammates and others who play with me can attest to that)....thats because I couldnt live with myself otherwise. All im saying is that something needs to be done to make it harder for those players that just don't want to come out from wiping and staying in the game expecially at night. Everyone here has shot someone and watched them walk away and not walk out.....everyone...and that should infuriate everyone. I dont see why would anyone feel that wearing tape on opposite arms isnt a good idea if it helps keep friendly fire down, makes it easier to barrel tag someone when you dont see their color at night, and leaves no doubt when your shooting at someone that they are the enemy. It doesnt give any one side a fairer advantage than the other. I for one am tired of spending an hour unseena nd unheard creeping around at night only to be lit up at point blank by a friendly or shooting someone from the opposite team and watching them shrug it off and walk off and keep playing. In real war....bullets kill.

Im done.
MercOfTeamARES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2005, 12:47 PM #4
GeekSquad
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
I was there at the night game one thing I learned is never go solo in a night game thank fully I got barrel tagged instead of lit up!
Also the reason why people use flood lights is becouse there cheaper than night vision. I might save up and get a gen 2 for 500!
I can wait till next year!
GeekSquad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2005, 11:06 AM #5
jrock0910
Old School Twists
 
jrock0910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
jrock0910 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
jrock0910 supports Bob Gurnsey
jrock0910 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
come on thier should be some set down rules for night play besides just the lowered chrono and if night vision is gonna be used refs should be out and equiped so they can see whats going on right now like it is playing at night with no refs like we do is just crazy
__________________
Joshua JRock Haymon
Team Kaizen Scenario/Speedball Team Ocala Florida
Proudly Sponsored by Redz/Guerilla Air/Six Feet Deep Clothing. We Specialize In Hard Playing & Hard Living

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members

:To Quote Former President Thomas Jefferson: "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate
jrock0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2005, 12:45 PM #6
PBOldTimer
Yeah, I'm that Ref
 
PBOldTimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jim Thorpe, PA
PBOldTimer owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
PBOldTimer has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Most paintball facilities implement an "all-impact" hit rule for night time play. Meaning: during the day time, usually a hit must be the size of a quarter or larger to be a legit hit. But at night time, any and all paintball impacts (weather the ball breaks or not) is enough to knock the target out of the game. This rule is a step in the right direction, but still falls short. The major complication is that the refs themselves are unable to see as well. And if the refs can't see the hit, then it becomes near impossible to officiate. The only answer is to somehow make paintballs and paintball breaks visible during night play. ANSWER: glow-in-the-dark paintballs! Unfortunately, this answer will likely increase the cost of paintballs.
__________________
I'm here to kick butt and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum!
PBOldTimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 04:34 PM #7
d ltrwg7
trippy tippy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: western mass.
me and my friends live in a small town in massachusetts and there are many places to play, my friends dad owns a motor/electric company, so we rent a generator light and place in on top of a hill so most of the feild is covered, but it still leaves shadows, when ever we play at night if someone gets hit, even if it doesnt break he is out, also, try to mark your field boundries with lightsticks or something to that nature
d ltrwg7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 01:02 PM #8
jrock0910
Old School Twists
 
jrock0910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
jrock0910 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
jrock0910 supports Bob Gurnsey
jrock0910 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
well first lighting the whole field in a night game would be kind of elininating the whole point of playing at night and marking the boundaries of the field is kinda hard to do when the playing area is 40+ acres
__________________
Joshua JRock Haymon
Team Kaizen Scenario/Speedball Team Ocala Florida
Proudly Sponsored by Redz/Guerilla Air/Six Feet Deep Clothing. We Specialize In Hard Playing & Hard Living

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members

:To Quote Former President Thomas Jefferson: "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate
jrock0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2005, 09:59 AM #9
RickSurge
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
 has been a member for 10 years
Actually, marking the field boundaries with glow sticks is done by some producers out there. Whether the field is 40 or 140 acres, the players should know where the boundaries are.

As far as the "any impact" counts rule. That is done by most game producers around the US also. It still comes down to the honesty of the player to get out when they are hit.
RickSurge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2005, 10:04 AM #10
jrock0910
Old School Twists
 
jrock0910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
jrock0910 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
jrock0910 supports Bob Gurnsey
jrock0910 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
if your gonna mark the field boundaries use something thats ease to see like tiki torches or barrel fires
__________________
Joshua JRock Haymon
Team Kaizen Scenario/Speedball Team Ocala Florida
Proudly Sponsored by Redz/Guerilla Air/Six Feet Deep Clothing. We Specialize In Hard Playing & Hard Living

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members

:To Quote Former President Thomas Jefferson: "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate
jrock0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2005, 11:55 PM #11
ErrantVenture
DaBoomNaDaUmmDumNaEma
 
ErrantVenture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Flint, MI
 has been a member for 10 years
The main problem with spotlights is that it ruins the natural nightvision of the human eye. You might be surprised how well you can see at night with no assistance if you let your eyes adjust, especially with a full moon. I say rein in the use of spotlights and schedule games with night play for the time of the month when the moonlight will be optimal.

Not to mention that turning on a light only makes you a target. The only time during D-Day that spotlighting helped was when the Germans were spotlighting the woodline and making step-by-step coordinated advances against the Americans. Random players running around with lights only disrupts teamwork.
__________________
Errant Venture

Green Shocker SFT w/Vision, MaxFlo, 14" AA, 68ci/4500, Smoke Halo, 5" 32 Degrees DF.
Tippmann Model 98 w/PTP Intruder Assault Exp. Chamber, 14" J&J Ceramic, 12v Revy, 20oz, modded trigger spring.
ErrantVenture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2006, 03:07 PM #12
PBOldTimer
Yeah, I'm that Ref
 
PBOldTimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jim Thorpe, PA
PBOldTimer owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
PBOldTimer has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
As Jrock mentioned, lighting the boundary with glowsticks becomes difficult with larger fields. Last D-Day at Skirmish included more than 300 acres for the game. Even if you have the resources to light all those miles of boundary line, then the local animals become a problem. For some reason, squirrels like to "steal" boundary lines, while deer and bears just knock them down as they pass through the fields. And when knocked down, the animals tend to inadvertantly drag the boundary line with them. If you have glowsticks attached, then you could end up with boundaries all over the place except where you intended them to be!

As for tiki torches or barrel fires, sure they're plenty visible, but they're also dangerous when left unattended! If even one of those things go out of control, you're looking at a possible forest fire. Now judges will have to make a decision... follow the action and stay with the game, or stay put with the fires to make sure they remain safe. Also consider the burn bans that many state governments impose on companies during summer months. You can't rightly have a barrel fire as a boundary marker when its illegal to do so! RickSurge is 100% correct when he says that it ultimately comes down to the honesty of the player.
__________________
I'm here to kick butt and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum!
PBOldTimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2006, 05:33 PM #13
jrock0910
Old School Twists
 
jrock0910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
jrock0910 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
jrock0910 supports Bob Gurnsey
jrock0910 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
thats true but with some generosity on the game host and some volunteering by a few players say if the host offered a paint discount for the voulunteers to man and watch the burn barrels thier wouldnt be a problem but thats just my opinion
__________________
Joshua JRock Haymon
Team Kaizen Scenario/Speedball Team Ocala Florida
Proudly Sponsored by Redz/Guerilla Air/Six Feet Deep Clothing. We Specialize In Hard Playing & Hard Living

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members

:To Quote Former President Thomas Jefferson: "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate
jrock0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2006, 10:32 AM #14
ViperScenarios
Coast-to-coast Scenarios
 
ViperScenarios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
ViperScenarios is playing at Living Legends III
ViperScenarios is playing at Living Legends V
ViperScenarios owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
ViperScenarios supports Bob Gurnsey
"Red or Yellow?"

The key to dealing with "red or yellow" is learning how to play at night. When my group encounters another group someone (usually me) calmly states something to the effect of the following before anyone fires a shot;

(This should be stated plainly, calmly, and loud enough to be heard.)
"Hold your fire a second and listen. Neither of us knows what color the other is, so if you'll work with me we can all find out. I'll come out, alone, toward you. Send one representative forward to meet me and we'll compare armbands. If we are the same color we can hook up. If not we will both call ourselves out and step out of the way of the firefight. Sound good?"

You have to offer the choice of "We're both in, or we're both out" to avoid the silly barrel tag war that would ensue otherwise. If you present it as I have stated it won't happen. If you have different colors just be a good sport and quietly tell him "I guess we better get the he|| outta the way, huh?"

Believe it or not this has worked every time I have used it in the last ten years. No group has ever just opened fire on me after I proposed this. Sometimes they're bad guys, and we walk out and laugh about it. Sometimes they're friendlies and we hook up and run our missions or hit the enemy base.

Identifiers for players

The problem with glow sticks and such is that players drop things, and others pick them up. Then there are those who would bring their own.

There is also the issue of cost. Most of us (scenario directors) haven't raised prices in years. I've been in the business for ten years and I haven't. Trust me...everything I need to produce an event has increased in price in the last decade. Patches, laminating sleeves, duct tape, radios, batteries, ink, paper, printing, postage, insurance, computers, props, gas, etc...adding more expense is tough on us. And if anyone raises prices players will scream bloody murder.

Glow in the dark paint

The company that started that wouldn't make different colors for event promoters. Thus there was no way to control use of non-event paint. Once they do I am all for it. But, due to the reasons stated above, we need paint sales to survive and continue to provide the service that we do for the players.

Controlled missions and field access at night

The most important thing I've learned is that players want to play. They don't want to be "magically" out. (Chem weapon, air strike, etc) They want to be shot out. They want to get up when they want, get on the field when they want, and leave the field when they want. Getting them on the field at all at night is tough. Get them to do so when they know that they may have to stay at the base would make it impossible to get them out there at all. The result: No night play due to no night players.

Trust me...we are always looking for ways to better serve the players and provide the most fun possible. But dumbing down the game and making it so that players don't have to think isn't the way to do it. I've heard of night games where everyone wore a glow stick. Those who had never played at night thought it was okay. Those who had played regular night ball before thought it sucked and said they'd never play that way again.

Part of excelling as a player, or as a team, is learning how to deal with things. I went to one event where I brought six gross (gross = 12 dozen) little plastic whistles. (The ones with the little turbine that go "wheeeeee" when you blow them, and you could do so loudly or quietly) I got them at a novelty store super cheap. (You could try Oriental Trader Online for such things now) I gave one to every player on our side and told them to put it on their lanyard or string with their badge. We were playing the NVA (North Vietnamese Army) and, whenever we met players on the field (especially at night) you would hear "wheeeeee" and know they were friendly. If you blew yours ang got no whistle in return, you shot the krap out of them. During the final battle all the NVA player would blow them really loud during charges. It was awesome! (In a silly kinda way)

I remember you guys. You had your sh*t together. So take a lesson from the Marines...improvise, adapt, and overcome. Look at the problems you are having, put your heads together, and you'll figure out ways to deal with it.

If you want more ideas, or someone experienced to bounce ideas off of, drop me an email. I've been around since the first scenario game...and I'm more than happy to help.

Good luck!

V
__________________
Kerry "Viper" Rosenberry
Event Director: Viper Paintball
www.viperpaintball.com
ViperScenarios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2006, 02:38 PM #15
jrock0910
Old School Twists
 
jrock0910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
jrock0910 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
jrock0910 supports Bob Gurnsey
jrock0910 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
lol no but we may road trip to houston to bounce paint off you
__________________
Joshua JRock Haymon
Team Kaizen Scenario/Speedball Team Ocala Florida
Proudly Sponsored by Redz/Guerilla Air/Six Feet Deep Clothing. We Specialize In Hard Playing & Hard Living

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members

:To Quote Former President Thomas Jefferson: "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate
jrock0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2006, 09:34 PM #16
shot2pieces
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger[TG]
REPOSTS:
I like the idea of giving everyone glowsticks and using codewords like hotdog and ketchup to ID people, but noone wants to give themselves away by sticking a light to themselves and the code only works as long as the other team doesnt figure it out. If your team is somewhat small then tell each of them to bring or buy something like a turkey call (the little waffer like things you stick in ur mouth and blow over to make sqeeking noises) to tell who's who.
shot2pieces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2006, 09:44 PM #17
shot2pieces
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
viper your idea to calmly find out who's on who's team is a good idea, but i'm surprised that its worked for so long. Don't get me wrong, but if I heard someone say the same thing, I'd make sure they aren't on my team then shoot them just to be safe. Good luck with your strategy.
shot2pieces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2006, 09:56 PM #18
ViperScenarios
Coast-to-coast Scenarios
 
ViperScenarios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
ViperScenarios is playing at Living Legends III
ViperScenarios is playing at Living Legends V
ViperScenarios owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
ViperScenarios supports Bob Gurnsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by shot2pieces
Don't get me wrong, but if I heard someone say the same thing, I'd make sure they aren't on my team then shoot them just to be safe.
Ummm....the reason I do it is to find out who is ON what team. How is it, exactly, that you are going to "make sure I'm not on your team" if you don't send someone forward to compare arm tape or IDs?

(The following isn't directed at you, shot2pieces. Just clarifying my point.)

The idea behind it is when two groups of 8 or 10 encounter each other at night. You can...

A) Just go the other way
B) Just shoot em anyway, even if they're on your side, "just to be safe."
C) Actually make an intelligent attempt at identifying them, and yourself.

I've been on missions at night and run into the morons with the outlook of "shoot anyone/anything you're not sure about." There is nothing more irritating than knowing that your mission has just been compromised or scrubbed because you ran into your own guys and they were too dumb to play the game.

Don't try to win Most Valuable Player/Team for the enemy by being an idiot. Use your brain!
__________________
Kerry "Viper" Rosenberry
Event Director: Viper Paintball
www.viperpaintball.com
ViperScenarios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2006, 07:54 AM #19
jrock0910
Old School Twists
 
jrock0910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
jrock0910 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
jrock0910 supports Bob Gurnsey
jrock0910 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
paratroopers droped behind the lines to clear the way for Dday had the same problem they were given small clackers when they saw some one and they clacked if they didnt get a clack in return the person got wasted maybe we need to start doing something like that
__________________
Joshua JRock Haymon
Team Kaizen Scenario/Speedball Team Ocala Florida
Proudly Sponsored by Redz/Guerilla Air/Six Feet Deep Clothing. We Specialize In Hard Playing & Hard Living

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members

:To Quote Former President Thomas Jefferson: "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate
jrock0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2006, 09:35 AM #20
shot2pieces
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
I heard about the clackers, aka "crickets", that the paratroopers used. That's what I was getting at. Give everyone somthing that they can ID other teammates with, so that if you do come across another group in the mid. of the night, you won't have to reveal yourself (which would suck if you were trying to ambush the same group, cuz now they now where you are).

Peace
shot2pieces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2006, 12:35 PM #21
JointFuryBalz (Banned)
Joint Fury-circa 1996
 
JointFuryBalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Staten Island, NY
 has been a member for 10 years
Why micro-manage this. Just play knowing what you are up against. If you find the night play frustrating or unfair... well then, we'll see you in the morning. I agree with Viper's approach to the situation and have been in that exchange more then a few times. My team has gotten into the habit of mixing naked eye players in with our NVG players. Each plays off the others short comings.
JointFuryBalz is offline   Reply With Quote
ReplyScenario Ups


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump