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Old 11-18-2005, 07:42 AM #1
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What's it going to take.

Cross posted from the NEPL forums
Originally posted on 11/2 by Ty C.

I am posting this message here so that the pbnation readers can add their input. Only locals read the NEPL forums, so this may give some added, non-regional, perspective.

-jeff
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What is it going to take for NE paintball to really step up to the plate and do well nationally. Yes we have had some teams that have won here and there like HAF and Deadbox and PTI. But is seems that for the most part we are a step behind everyone else. In SD there wasnt one NE team that made the playoffs. Thats horrible, we had one pro, 4 semi pro, 1 d1, and I think a couple of d3 teams playing. One of my theories is that the talent is to spread out over the 80 something teams we have in NE. I also dont think we really work together to become better players and teams.I dont know how many practices i have gone too where someone cheats in practice and that leads to an argument and then the practice is over. I also dont see a lot of teams doing drills. How many nepl int and nov teams work on snap shooting and running and shooting. I know someone is going to come on here and say well we do, and expect me to give them a cookie or a medal. But watching the last NEPL, some of these teams are horrible fundamentally. Also after reading the best under 18 thread and thinking about it. I have come to the conclusion that who really cares is the best in NE at this or that if we arent really playing good paintball.
The other thing that plays into this is not being able to play during the winter. Their are indoors but they are few and far between. When i was going to SD i was sitting next to the captain of the JT allstars and he was telling me about an indoor they just opened in St Louis where they had three full 7 man fields with padded astro turf. The closest place like that to us is in Pittsburgh 8 hours away. I am also not criticizing any of the fields we currently have because im happy we have them.
So out of all of this if people in New England really care about what I just said we all need to have a come to Jesus and realize we arent that good and we need to work together to get better. Now im curious what everyone has to say.


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Old 11-18-2005, 02:37 PM #2
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just realzied we got moved to here so ill repost:

i dont think the problem lies in young/unproven kids running around begging for money. that isnt haulting players in new england from reaching success at the national level. organization and the abundance, or lack there of actually, of quality teams is holding us back in nationals.

take california for example. another region of the united states, a state, but for sake of this argument, we'll call it a region. ask anyone with decent knowledge of tournament paintball and im sure they could come up with around 10 pro/semipro teams from california in a matter of moments. "dynasty, sedition, hk, legacy, aftermath, bushwackers, assasins, etc". and thats just the more well known ones. so why are there so many more teams, quality ones anyway, over that end of the united states, and not over here? im not a geographer (sp) by any means, but im willin to guess that there are more people in new england then there are in califnornia. could be wrong. but again, for sake of argument, lets say i am. so why dont we have enough quality players around here to create these quality teams? the sponsorship for them will be drawn in through there talent, just like all the sponsorship was drawn into califnornia because of the adundance of talent. but why dont we have as good of players as california?

that is actually a seperate point. that we arent developing younger talent, instead, most quality players **** on them. i wont mention any team names, but im willin to bet that some middle ranked novice 5man team could not walk into esp in august and somehow get a game against the better teams that were practicing there (for example). why would those betetr teams want to waste there paint? they kno the outcome (or at least the outcome 99 times out of 100). its not worth the $$$ or time really of those higher quality teams to play them. thats understandable. but wat isnt is the behavior and attitude taken by the better players at the top towards the so called "noobs" and "squids". i by no means am a saint when it comes to this, msot who know me kno wat teams ive played for and kno wat ive done. so please dont think im going around passing blame here, just saying that it does happen, a lot. instead of insulting these "noob" teams, that arent at the level that is ready to play nationals, offering advice/caoching would need to substitute the current insults.

that will fix the problem of putting kids down, and eventually leading them to start to dislike the sport itself. but how to breed more talent in ne? we cant have lower teams playing our already higher quality teams, waste of time and paint. instead, why not have all those teams that arent ready for nationals play each other? build up exp, while not wasting higher teams time, until they are ready to seriously compete at that level, or close to it. some sort of s system to organize hwo plays who at practices.

those practices need to be organized. a certain place/time/sign ups the morning of or night before to get into a practcie rotation (ex: esp last winter). california has sc village, chicago has the badlanz, new jersey has dels hobbies. sadly we lost esp, which had the potential, if not already was the center of new england paintball. a place where we could organize something to the effect of a structured practice system.

just thoughts.
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Old 11-18-2005, 05:08 PM #3
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I agree with you on this Sean...the level of younger play isnt exactly going to get better. They need good practices so they can gain the experience and be able to move up the ranks and have what it takes to win events.

Also about indoor playing, many wonder what they will do without ESP, I thought for a while I wouldnt be able to play over the winter either but Matts Outback is getting an indoor within the week. Its one of the bubbledomes.
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Old 11-18-2005, 06:04 PM #4
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I think it is a lack of good indoor fields (we cannot practice for a decent price indoors), and a lack of good outdoor fields that attract alot of good players that are centrally located (kind of like SC village).
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Old 11-18-2005, 06:29 PM #5
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This is a bit of a rant. Starts in one direction, and ends up somewhere all togteher different...


There once was a team called The PunX. This team was started by me, and Bill Landry.

(Owner of Paintball Supply Shack - Check him out, great store...but anyway...)

Our goal was to take a group of kids, and teach them how to play tournament paintball. How to prepare. How to practice. How to play. We figured that since we had no intention of taking the team to a national event, that the roster would get picked apart by other teams, if we did a good job. After a few weeks of practice, we played in, and won the 7 man internediate division at the first NEPL event this year. We were very proud of the kids. They had practiced hard, and it had payed off on the field.

By the end of the year the team was gone. A few players got picked up by other teams to play at national events. Others just moved on once the core was gone. I guess young local players want to play at major events "just to go", even though they have no hope of winning.

There are many reasons why our team failed, but the thing I can't understand, is why the young players that have a chance to be good players feel the need to run off to play in these events. "Hey...I am not paying for it." is a very common attitude. The event is just a vacation. If you want to see a major event so bad, go to HB, or orlando, watch the event, have your vacation, and save some cash. Come home, and get back to work developing your game.

Maybe if more of these players would stay on local teams and play in the NEPL, or Fox 4 5 man series, or whatever, and practice. (ewww...dirty word) They might just get better, and be worth the more experienced team allowing them in on the practice.

I know this is going to break the hearts of many of you...but...you have to pay to play this game. If you play for free, or $5, or $10 guess what will happen to your local field. It will become your local lumber supply, or your local housing development. This game is an expensive hobby. Always has been. Drives me crazy how many kids come to the field, and want to know if their team can get a reduced rate...why?...and bring their own paint.

Try this... Go to Applebees, bring your own plates, and silverware, and food...and ask if you can cook, and eat it there if you buy some soda.

So...What is it going to take for the young player of today to get a clue, and do the right things, to bring NE paintball back to where it once was???

A miracle.

oh, and support your local Hurricane!!!

How you ask...

You'll find out soon.............
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Old 11-19-2005, 07:18 AM #6
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here is my view on paintball, as a young paintball player.16 years old to be exact.
im of the of the kids that has dished out alot of cash to paintball, by now i could probalby get a decent car. i agree with everything said up top about kids and goin to national events and everythin like that. i have pretty much come to the realization that kids and national events is like chasing a dream......

like said by DA, paintball IS a expensive sport, and dont expect to get discounts and stuff unless you earn them. that is what most kids dont unerstand, u dont get something unless you give something. dedication, time, heart,thats what i give for paintball and what i have gotten back so far? no not a discount not a sponsorship, but i do know alot more paintball players and coaches and i learn from them all. i gain experience and knowlege of the game that way, and maybe some day i will have discounts and sponsorships for w/e team i play but right now it just not time. most kids think u can just get discounts and sponsorships like magic, keep dreaming.


some kids have great talent and have great experience from great coaching. take DA when i tried out for punx and did something wrong he would tell me what i did wrong and how to fix it. kids wont go anywhere without a great coach, who has a great amount of experience and knowlege of the sport of paintball.

the miracle that DA said would be to have all young players be coached, but that is impossible hence it is a miracle. alot of young players now mostly ones just getting started think they r great, they may win a couple of events then they get cocky and want to play national, usually they end up coming home with nothing.



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Old 11-19-2005, 10:01 AM #7
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Like I said before, I just wish that fields had decent prices. If I played without my team I would spend about 90-100$ per day on paintball, and about 120$ per day on indoor fields. You cannot expect young kids to keep paying that and to continue to play alot.
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:06 AM #8
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disclaimer, 19 year old player who wants to chase the dream.

i agree with a fair amount of whats been said. i think that a lot of non pro teams are being given sponsorship far above what theyve earned on the field, and the majority of it is business relations where a company is nice enough to eat some cost.

The young kids come in about here (anyone under 20ish/has been playing less than 3-5 years, depending on their maturity, experience, etc). A lot of younger players now have been watching the videos that glorify living the paintball life, and theyre all rushing to make a claim at their own. They want to go to the national events because it makes them feel like theyre a part of the scene. Even if all theyre doing is hanging out with the same people from the east coast, say in southern cali, it makes them feel connected to something they idolize.

Now, its nice to have dreams and want to support paintball on the national level. All that is great. The problem, as a lot of people have mentioned in this thread is that kids dont regularly grind, drill, work out, beat themselves up, etc. Some kids may not recognize that they're just not ready to commit themselves like that, even if success would mean a lot to them. Part of the problem is there are people too focused on the new gun, parts, sandana, being 'agg', having cool stickers, and all the rest. Paintball fashion has become very big, and as a result, we have fashion hos now who are more into that then having a tight snap shot. Obviously, like trying to support national tournaments, these things help the industry in some way, but if they wanna be great players, they need to spend less time walking around the vendors area and more time walking the fields, practicing, etc.

I think something that coaches and captains of local home field teams can do to help, is explicity discourage kids from trying to be a paintball rock star. The best players will almost always be the ones who know that it is their place to ask questions and listen, not make statements or take control. When those players start to grow, it's evident and thats when they deserve to be asked what they think about a game plan or field set up.

I realize this has been very long, and probably repetitive in some places. I guess it can be boiled down to this: players need to focus less on imitating southern cali paintball, and more on beating up on them.
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:25 AM #9
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Originally Posted by dantriggerhappy
Like I said before, I just wish that fields had decent prices. If I played without my team I would spend about 90-100$ per day on paintball, and about 120$ per day on indoor fields. You cannot expect young kids to keep paying that and to continue to play alot.
You're right, you can't expect them to, but guess what, we all did at one point or another. I can't tell you how many times I drained my birthday or X-mas money on a trip to Boston's indoor in Somerville....my brother probably drained 10 times as much. The simple fact is, if you want to play paintball...actuall want to play at nationals with a shot at winning, you'll make sacrifices for it to become a reality. Hell...I used to ski about 30 days in the winter season. Last year I went twice. Get the picture? Last year, my freshman year in college, I can't tell you how many weekends I was away from school, away from the college party scene, away from my friends and the potential friends I could have made those nights/days...where was I? Either AT practice or sleeping over someones house to be closer to where I was going to practice the following day. It's all about sacrifices and the drive to make your goal a reality...if you make them and have it, you'll eventually find yourself with options to play real paintball.

Oh and regarding Sean V's comments - That's true to a certain extent...but we all know its a flawed way of thinking about it. Look at me - made fun of and underestimated from day one (still do get made fun of). I made it through all the BS people spit your way when you're new. You remember the first time we met? You, Nick, and Jaron all with your good gear and me with my cocker that chopped 60% of the time? I knew what you guys were thinking, didn't stop me from shooting your ***** and causing Nick to rifle his Ironmen Trix to the ground. What I'm saying is...sure if you're new to the sport, you can't expect kids with talent to look up to you - but even when you do get made fun of or something, you shouldn't let that put a ***** in your armor. Some kid is talking trash and shooting you every game? If you want to, eventually you'll get his number and put 10 into his neck.

Seriously - just do what it takes to play. Come out and practice. Play the NEPL's. Then, practice some more and play more NEPL's. When you're winning or placing well consistently, people will come looking for you...perhaps this is why PTI ref'd some of the events?

Last edited by jonzo : 11-19-2005 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:28 AM #10
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I just found it extremely hard being 15 years old and no job trying to ball about 2-4 times a month and spending about 100$ each time. That puts in the position where I am right now with no money for a car, insurance, or gas.
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:36 AM #11
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ESP is closing down?
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:41 AM #12
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Is that comment directed at me? I do not know an ESP, but an EPS.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:00 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanV
those practices need to be organized. a certain place/time/sign ups the morning of or night before to get into a practcie rotation (ex: esp last winter). california has sc village, chicago has the badlanz, new jersey has dels hobbies. sadly we lost esp, which had the potential, if not already was the center of new england paintball. a place where we could organize something to the effect of a structured practice system.
I was replying to him.
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Old 11-19-2005, 12:47 PM #14
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ESP is closing down?
apparently it is already closed.
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Old 11-19-2005, 01:21 PM #15
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Originally Posted by dantriggerhappy
I just found it extremely hard being 15 years old and no job trying to ball about 2-4 times a month and spending about 100$ each time. That puts in the position where I am right now with no money for a car, insurance, or gas.

Having no job... To be successful in this sport you need to have money. Ive been playing paintball in NEPLs and NPPLs since i was 14. Ive been working since i was 14. To be successful in this game you need to play everyweek no exceptions. You younger players need ot get these basic fundamentals down. To get a good snap shot or running and shooting up to par you need to play and play often. Get a job or start hittn up ma and pa dukes.

For all those kids that have been playing weekly now for awhile i have a formula for success for you. Get a group of friends or teamates and play together. Make little roster change and stick together. This bothers me about paintball these days. People sell each other out for a chance play with some other team just cuz that team plays nationals. If you stick together your team is going to get better individually, but more importantly any team to be successful needs to play together and frequent roster changes is hurting NE paintball.

Just my two cents on how to become successful....
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:06 PM #16
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if you dont mind i'll put in my input, lol, BTW i am 15 but i think im a little but more mature than your average 15 year old

I definatley realize that you cant win a tournament or be succesful with out practicing. Tournaments arent won on sundays at the tournament, theyre won on sundays at your local field when you running drills and practicing. The only way to enhance your skills sharply is to run drills, and a few scrimmages, but more drills than anything. I also understand that going from a regional tournament series and doing we'll is a totally diffrent thing from jumping into the national tournament seen, the best teams in the world go to PSP's and NPPL's, not the best ones an hour from your house.

More about the drill/becoming a professional player thing, im going to use Hamen Chapmen from Baltimore Trauma for example. When he was on Overload, the amature team he played on, they would practice about 10 minutes from my house, and i would always try my best to run drills with them or just even watch. I swear to you, evey weekend hamen would be practicing, runnings drills, or what ever. There wasnt a weekend in his life that wasnt occupied by paintball. He put practice first, not looking "agg" or having the coolest gun. And did it ever pay off, he was asked to play for trauma about half way into his first Amatuer year. I guess what im trying to say is that practice can make you an amazing paintball player. It doesnt matter what type of bandana you wear on your head, or how many people like you on pbn.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:19 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Stein
Cross posted from the NEPL forums
Originally posted on 11/2 by Ty C.

I am posting this message here so that the pbnation readers can add their input. Only locals read the NEPL forums, so this may give some added, non-regional, perspective.

-jeff
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What is it going to take for NE paintball to really step up to the plate and do well nationally. Yes we have had some teams that have won here and there like HAF and Deadbox and PTI. But is seems that for the most part we are a step behind everyone else. In SD there wasnt one NE team that made the playoffs. Thats horrible, we had one pro, 4 semi pro, 1 d1, and I think a couple of d3 teams playing. One of my theories is that the talent is to spread out over the 80 something teams we have in NE. I also dont think we really work together to become better players and teams.I dont know how many practices i have gone too where someone cheats in practice and that leads to an argument and then the practice is over. I also dont see a lot of teams doing drills. How many nepl int and nov teams work on snap shooting and running and shooting. I know someone is going to come on here and say well we do, and expect me to give them a cookie or a medal. But watching the last NEPL, some of these teams are horrible fundamentally. Also after reading the best under 18 thread and thinking about it. I have come to the conclusion that who really cares is the best in NE at this or that if we arent really playing good paintball.
The other thing that plays into this is not being able to play during the winter. Their are indoors but they are few and far between. When i was going to SD i was sitting next to the captain of the JT allstars and he was telling me about an indoor they just opened in St Louis where they had three full 7 man fields with padded astro turf. The closest place like that to us is in Pittsburgh 8 hours away. I am also not criticizing any of the fields we currently have because im happy we have them.
So out of all of this if people in New England really care about what I just said we all need to have a come to Jesus and realize we arent that good and we need to work together to get better. Now im curious what everyone has to say.


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QFT, im not an intermediate player, or a player at your level, but I do play in the novice dev. in the nepl and some other new engalnd events. And i have noticed this alot. Especially at practices. Teams come and cheat, alot, making fair play horrible, and the feild that is closest to me and my team (canobie pb) dosent provide reffs for team practices making "the honor" system the way to play which just dosent work.

The indoor feils up here are ok, alot of them made a big jump up in the way the feilds are like boston paintball and planet. Last year I went to boston at the beginning of the year to take care of some nepl stuff and noticed that there whole feild had better lighting and carpets, and I heard that planet pb now has some better lighting and carpets too.

I would love to see a indoor feild with 3+ full 7 man feilds to play at but right now I dont think that its going to happen untill a bunch of players come together and open it up. Sure theres quite a few feilds in mass, but I dont think there is 1 indoor feild in NH making travel for us NH ballers a ***** some times. And the buildings that you could fit 3+ feilds in the lease/building price is ginormous, making prices for the feild sky rocket and even though they would have 3 feilds people would go to the cheaper feilds to play. I would love to be one of the people who open a 3+ indoor feild, but being 15 and still living at home with my rents and not having my licence yet just makes that impossible.

Personaly Imo us NE ballers are really lazy on how we practice, we just want to go out onto the feild and expect to mow faces off. Ive been playing every week in the summer at a couple of different feilds in the NE area and ive only seen about a handfull of teams actually drilling the stuff that is importaint, the rest are just sitting down asking when the next game is going to start. I know as a player that im constantly looking for ways to bring my game up but I find it hard with the indoor feilds being 1hour 30 min+ away from me, and that its hard to keep a job.

I dont know how the rest of the NE ballers feel about this, but jeff i agree with you 100%, we need to do something to step up our game.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:39 PM #18
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i have seen teams that in the semi pro division from New England show up to practice and play local teams and cheat in practice. This isn't helping them get any better, but causing them greif in the long run.
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:04 PM #19
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i think in order too have a sucesfull player/team, u need a great coach someone to lead u and teach u like DA or J. stien this is why i think NE cranes are so sucsefull

i was given the chance in july too pratice and play with shockwave CA and tippmann effect at the begining of july i was just your average baller nothin special but at the end of july after playing 18 times in one month drilling, driving my self, listening and watching tippmann and shock wave i was a whole new baller i could now keep up with the better teams and shoot some people while i was at it

what helped me the most was being taught being coached, having a shockwave guy come up to me after the game and tell me what i did wrong, i would listen to him then fix what i did the next game, i doubled my skill in one month cuas of this,

i think that punx was the greatest idea ever i think that you should of con't it, or even if the ne cranes made a sister team found some young talent and j. stien and DA could teach them i think thats what it would take
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:46 PM #20
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i agree with pretty much wate everyone has said. my thoughts r whether u super good or not everyone should pay for their nepls. i remember punx they got a free ride at nepl after the event they got first and when it was free they got last. maybe if they paid with their own money they would of had more respect and done better.. kids cant ask for sponsors, sponsors come to them
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:18 PM #21
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Figured I'd post it here as well....

I've given this some though over the weekend......problem with paintball in general in New England? It's the age of the players in regards to the local sponsorship.

What am I talking about? Most of the true top level national teams are backed by either a store, field or manufactorer (sp?) Most of those top sponsored teams are local to their respective sponsors.

What does New England have on that level? Probably just BPS - to my knowledge they are not fully promoting a top level team. So there's no one else. The fields don't run year round so they don't see the same level of income....there is no real industry here in our area. An example would be P&L at their height helping Stein and the Hurricanes in their infancy.

So what does that leave? It puts it all or mostly on the shoulders of the players....players who mostly are still in school and working part-time for pitiful wages. These same players have to balance that money with budding romantic relationships..friends and automobiles.

When I started playing the NEPL way back in 1996 - it was a different story. I'm willing to bet the average age'd player was in his early 20's with a full-time job. Willing and able to be able to pay more. Even though it was a bit more costly back then to play. That was offset by the fact that the entire volume of paint needed to compete was far less.....so it equals out to the lower paint prices now.

It's not going to change....The players able to afford to play nationaly are generaly older now and not wanted as much as the same financialy strapped teenager in New England.

So whats it going to take to make a good national level team that will stick together? First lots of money....and second success.

So money will breed your unity. Plain and simple.
VtPitbull is offline  
 




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