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Old 08-31-2005, 10:55 PM #1
badboydan999 (Banned)
 
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question about paint resale?

well my local field sucks really bad but we have a field 45 min away with 4 x ball fields and 7 airball fields outside, and 2 indoor airball fields. www.paintballheat.com

sorry i have to support sponsors but ne ways i was wondering my local field is terriable and there paint prices are really jacked up. i was wondering is it illegal to resale paint cheaper than what they are selling and better quality? i get paint really cheap but i was thinking of buying lots of paint and resaling it there and trying to make a profit but was wondering if it was illegal. thanks all
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:09 PM #2
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If you dont like their prices, dont play there. I dont think they would take kindly to someone else selling competitors paint at their field.
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:22 PM #3
p8ntballer47 (Banned)
 
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yea that probably wouldnt go over too well.......
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:24 PM #4
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Talk to them about the crappy prices and if their jerks about it threaten to compete with them because u dont have to pay the lease for a shop or anything and u can sale paint for dirt cheap. I'm only saying this cause i hate fields that take advantage of people and i try to be as fair as possible.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:00 AM #5
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How could you threaten him though?

You: "We can sell paint cheaper to your customers!"
Him: "Get off my property."

You can try it, but chances are he'll tell you to piss off and he has every right too. It's a private business on it's own land, he can tell you to get the **** away and there isn't a thing you can do about it. While it wouldn't be illigal to compete with him, he wouldn't allow it at his own field.
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:00 PM #6
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If the field is FPO, it won't fly. If it is BYOP, it might work.

Reselling paint is not profitable easily or quickly.

Too many people make the mistake that retail prices follow wholesale prices. They don't. That fallacy was disproved a hundred years ago.

http://mises.org/story/1894

Lately, governments are trying to put price caps on the wholesale price of gas, thinking that it will reduce the retail price. Instead, it will increase demand, decrease supply and cause one of two problems: higher retail prices or gas shortages.

Read the article I linked to. The Law of Scarcity holds true for fields and paint prices!

A field is a scarce product. Very rare. The retail price of paint at a given field has zero relation to the wholesale price. The retail price is set higher by the demand -- cost of the land, insurance, overhead. The retail price is set lower by the supply -- more players, more competitive fields.

Throw cheaper paint into the mix and the Law of Scarcity will create one of two outcomes: the field closes, creating a surge in demand causing a new field to open with higher prices, or it causes another field to open creating new competition causing temporary price drops until one field goes under, or the demand increases (more players).

It will likely be the first. If the field closes, the price to play in your area becomes infinite, a there is no field in your area.

My advice? Find 20 players who want better pricing. Go to the field manager and negotiate a better rate in exchange for a commitment to play. Raise the supply of players will lower the price for that given group.

--dada
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:06 PM #7
badboydan999 (Banned)
 
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ok thanks all

i dont think i will be reselling paint there its bacially a noob trap ne ways
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:17 PM #8
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Newbs are 75% of paintball and probably 90% of the profit.

If it wasn't for newbs, you'd be paying $100 per case just to play in your yard. Tippmanns would be $200 and CO2 tanks would be the norm.

You should not only treat newbs with a ton of respect, but thank them for making your sport cheap. Try to keep them playing by being a good sportsman, don't make fun of them.

More newbs = more supply of players = more fields opening = better prices.

Tournament players don't get it. Fields don't need you. Fields don't like the harassment. Keep it up and fields won't want you.

Love the sport? Love the newbs!

--dada
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:19 PM #9
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lol check the sig lol
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:36 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JxTxCxNx
Newbs are 75% of paintball and probably 90% of the profit.
But, alienating experienced players destroys the local community and there's no attraction for new players. Catch-22.

You can only fleece the local population for so long with 200$ a case prices and play packages at 75$.

So, what keeps a field going and covers basic expenses so it can make a profit of the "newbs" that are too dim-witted to judge the value of the product they receive? That's right, steady income and support from loyal customers and team players.

A busines that doesn't have a large number of repeat customers is doomed to failure. Or, do you have actual economic data that can support the idea of having only 25% of business being repeat business?
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Old 09-01-2005, 06:52 PM #11
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In reality a properly ran field will focus on generating group business as the main staple of player traffic and not that of regular players and team players. The new group business is based on first time players paying for a package deal at a certain price. They are paying for entertain of sorts and the variations in pricing on paint etc, is irrelevant to them. Many of these groups repeat every so often and thus the cycle continues. Of most first time players, 85% continue to play as normal rec players and end up buying their own equipment of which they turn into regulars at one field or another.

But in turn most regular rec players are restricted by a budget which limits the amount of times per month they actually do visit a playing field. Thus the field operator needs to bank more on the groups who spend more dollars per session on rental gear etc than the regulars while still building a regular local player base. Only after a high number of regular players are established can that business support the field with steady income as the numbers of regulars will higher on any given day. Every customer matters to a business all the same but concentrating on reserved groups of new playerís guarantees income that waiting for regulars to show up on Saturday to play canít offer. Iíll go after the newbs first in this case, then deal with teams etc afterwards.
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:33 PM #12
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I completely agree. People who play paintball need to understand that the order of operations, if they want the field to stay in business, are:

1. Groups
2. Newbies
3. Regulars
4. Irregulars
5. Tournament Players

Tournament players who cry foul when a bunch of woodsballers get all the attention need to focus on what is keeping the field alive. Very VERY rarely do tournament players earn the field a sizeable portion of their overhead. At the fields we've run, the tournament players were often a net loss because air was so darn expensive.

This is NOT to say that the tournament players should be treated badly or unfairly. They should just understand that fields have to make a living, and not only do they have to make a living, they have to plan for slower months as well. On our new property, we'll be paying rent when its snowing, raining, tornado weather, or darn hot. Take 365 days a year of rent, remove 100 days of winter, 50 days of too-cold fall and spring, another 100 days of "off days" such as Mondays-Thursdays during the school year, and odd holidays, and you're left with seriously 50 days to pay your rent for the other 315 days you have no one. If a given field is paying $50,000 a year in rent (and that's CHEAP and probably not a big field), they need to make a net profit of $1000 per day they're open just to pay rent. This is after overhead: payroll, electricity, air, etc.

--dada
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Old 09-01-2005, 08:55 PM #13
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I'm going to compile all of dada's posts, put them in a book, and sell it. Any takers?

You contribute about 95% of all the valuable information in the thread... and I commend you for having the patience to say similar things over and over gain.
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:36 AM #14
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I'm telling you, dada is a genious...
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:12 PM #15
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Haha. Actually we have a book & soon a monthly newsletter but we're unable to advertise it on PBN for the moment.

I'm not a genius, just a greedy profit monger. Consider me the John Galt of paintball

That's the secret of any business in success. When your customers are happy enough with your product or service to be comfortable with you earning a profit.

Unfortunately, we've slid into a bad place. People are so cost conscious that quality is an afterthought. When you add quality to the transaction, something remarkable happens: both parties profit. One gains a few dollars, the other gains a working product which enhances their lives.

--dada
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Old 09-02-2005, 02:24 PM #16
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Dada is absolutely right, people that think paintball is expensive now are newbs themselves. I remember paying over 130.00 a case to play paintball, in the woods behind my house. I can remember as far back as when paintballs were oil based nelson's, and cost 2.00 for 10 balls. thats 20.00 per 100, 200.00 per 1000. So for all of you who think paintball is expensive, then think about the people who paid so that it can be what it is.Paintball is as cheap as it has ever been, there are cost associated with this industry. The tourney players all want something for free also, I know at least at my home field they do. They did at my Store also, Newbs, if you want to call tem that are what keep this buisness afloat. Why do you guys have to build that superiority complex anyways, does it make your inadequate personality seem worthwhile or what. Why can't we all just play the game.
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Old 09-02-2005, 03:22 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroedOff
Dada is absolutely right, people that think paintball is expensive now are newbs themselves. I remember paying over 130.00 a case to play paintball, in the woods behind my house. I can remember as far back as when paintballs were oil based nelson's, and cost 2.00 for 10 balls. thats 20.00 per 100, 200.00 per 1000.
You've got a case of selective memory. Paint was more expensive, but you used far less in a day's play. I was a paintslinging maniac and others couldn't comprehend how much paint I went though. sometimes as many as 500 in a day!

It used to cost me 40-50$ for an entire days play with lunch included back in the early 90's.
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Old 09-02-2005, 03:35 PM #18
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lol, yeah but I came in at the worst time...when angels just came out...there were rumors of this thing called a shocker and cockers just came out with hinge frames. Meaning paint was still $120/case and you could easliy go through 1000-1500 a day. Then again I go through 2 - 2 1/2 a day now...
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Old 09-02-2005, 03:50 PM #19
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When I started playing in the early 90's we regularly shot 800-1000 rounds in a day of 'pump only' games. We didn't use nearly as many rounds per game as we do today, but we played more than twice as many games (we could play the same field...woods of course...at least twice before we needed to return to the staging area)! Ahhh...the good old days
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