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Old 08-28-2005, 11:18 PM #1
jeffery_waller
 
 
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C02 fill question

I have just opened a store and i am a bit confused on the Co2 filling. Do i add 65% of the bottle by weight such as 20oz would get 12oz of liquid co2 or is that already added in so i add 20oz of liquid co2. Thanks for taking the time to reply in advance.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:33 AM #2
mousek801
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when you put the tank on just zero out the scale. and you should really have some1 tech you how to fill, not just figure it out on your own.
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:04 AM #3
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i understand that and you are right but at this time i am trying to find out from the most knowledgeable people (field and store owners)i can because there is no-one else i can ask, there are no other fields or stores for 100 miles.

Last edited by jeffery_waller : 08-29-2005 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 08-29-2005, 05:39 AM #4
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You really should have figured this out ahead of time, but fill it to the labeled weight. A 20oz. tank gets 20 ounces, a 12 ounce tank gets 12 ounces.
Avoid overfilling by too much or you're going to be replacing rupture discs.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:04 PM #5
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all you need to do to fill a tank is to completely drain the tank, then place the tank on the scale and zero out the scale then fill the tank to the amount it holds. like 20 oz to 20 ozs and 12 oz to 12 oz and so on.
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Old 08-29-2005, 03:02 PM #6
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Thanks for the help the instructions didn't make that to clear all they said was 65% of fill so i realy appreciate the help and i did try to find out as much as i could before i started but like i said there is no-one to help. I spent about half an hour with the guys from airgas (my air supplier) picking their brains for all they knew but they are not paintball experts. any way thanks for the help
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Old 08-29-2005, 05:42 PM #7
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I've been investigating various fill stations and options.

What are the economics and technical merits of the following:
http://www.nitroduck.com/co2DualPump.htm

Anyone use one? How many CO2 cylinders do you need to fill to make it a worthwhile investment?
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Old 08-29-2005, 07:07 PM #8
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It is generally a good idea to fill tanks about an ounce under, so a 20oz would get 18-19oz, a 12oz, like 11oz, and so on.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:05 PM #9
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don't forget you want to fill chilled tanks. Or you won;t get enough liquid in there. If the tank isn;t already cold after you drain it. Put an ounce or 2 of liquid in it and drain it again.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:11 PM #10
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ya, dont fill them the full way
20oz 17-18
12oz 9-10
9oz 6-7
10oz 8-7
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:20 AM #11
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That's weird. I have always filled tanks to the amount they should be(12 gets 12). Even in Summer time when it is hot. I was under the impression that filling them to capacity, and not over, still had room for them expand as normal, as long as you did not leave it sitting out in the sun.
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Old 08-30-2005, 08:37 AM #12
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The only reason not to fill them to the correct amount is if you don't trust your scale. They are designed to hold the amount on the label. If you have a good scale then fill to the required amount.

We considered a CO2 pump but keep in mind that you will have to know the weight of every cylinder out there to know how much to put in. If you do a lot of fills it would probably be worth it.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:32 AM #13
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I have two CO2 pumps (field and store). Obviously, I think they are well worth the money. You don't have to chill bottles, unless the customer brings them in hot. Not having to chill bottles will save you at least 2-3 ounces per fill and you don't dump what's already in there. On one 50lb tank, you will save probably 5-10 fills @ $3-$5, you are looking at least $20-$30 per 50 lb tank worth of extra profit. After 20-30 50lb tanks, you have paid for it.

You don't have to have a scale with a pump. You do a bunch in the beginning to determine the proper pressure to run your pump at. After that, the pump stops pumping when it's full. It's based on head pressure. I keep a scale around to check every so often just in case, but not on a daily basis.

Another advantage to a pump is you can start the fill, lay the tank down and do something else like collecting payment, fixing a gun, or helping the next customer. The pump quits when it's done and you can pick it up whenever.

Another thing I learned is to not use siphon tube tanks. I get the 'beverage grade' tanks that don't have a tube, and I made a rig to flip it upside down. I get and extra 5-10 lbs of liquid of each tank. The tanks are practically bone dry when I'm done. Just a quick test to see if it's worth while. Bring a scale from home and weigh the tank before you use it. Weigh it when you get done, and you'll probably see that you are only getting about 35-40lb worth.

Hope this helps,
Brent
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:34 AM #14
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At our place they dont even measure they just shake it and feel how full it is no nee to measure it.
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:00 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shore Paintball
We considered a CO2 pump but keep in mind that you will have to know the weight of every cylinder out there to know how much to put in. If you do a lot of fills it would probably be worth it.
That doesn't make sense. You need a scale no matter how you fill the tank.

And there are only a few sizes to know:
3.5 oz (who uses those?)
7 oz
9 oz
20 oz

Head pressure is a good "rule of thumb". Might be underfilling hot tanks just a little.

There's certainly absolutely no reason to deliberately underfill a tank as some have suggested.
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:20 AM #16
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I said that you don't have to chill tanks unless they are hot. The tank just needs to be at room temp. You'd be suprised at how accurate head pressure is as long as the tanks are at room temp.
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:27 PM #17
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Don't forget to add in 12 oz. Those are still sold pretty regularly and we use them on all our rentals.
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:46 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsanford
I said that you don't have to chill tanks unless they are hot. The tank just needs to be at room temp. You'd be suprised at how accurate head pressure is as long as the tanks are at room temp.
Got it, no misunderstanding and Iím in complete agreement. And when was the last time anyone had a HOT CO2 cylinder?

Have to apologize about my misstatement about required measurements though. Shore Paintball was completely right in a way. If you donít empty the cylinder before filling, you do need to know all empty cylinder weights if youíre filling by a scale.

But going by pressure seems to be a great idea.

Iís hazard the guess that the payback on the CO2 pump would much sooner than suggested. Factor in the time for the employee who has to be fully involved in filling cylinders otherwise. Plus, factor in the value of satisfied customers who can pay for their CO2 by the ounce and top off tanks as they want instead of having to pay flat rates whether or not the tank is empty.
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:38 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volcomstone2262
At our place they dont even measure they just shake it and feel how full it is no nee to measure it.
That is awsome

That is so incredibaly unsafe.
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Old 08-30-2005, 05:40 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shore Paintball
The only reason not to fill them to the correct amount is if you don't trust your scale. They are designed to hold the amount on the label. If you have a good scale then fill to the required amount.

We considered a CO2 pump but keep in mind that you will have to know the weight of every cylinder out there to know how much to put in. If you do a lot of fills it would probably be worth it.
Setting then in the sun leads to expansion, and people will leave there gun setting in the sun, at an oudoor field, in 90+ degree weather. And, when I fill a 12 ounce to 12 ounces, someone is bound to leave it out in the sun, even after telling them not to. I've seen many burst disks blow because of that, so I began fillinf them an ounce or two under what they are suposed to be.
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