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Old 08-24-2005, 06:24 PM #22
Shore Paintball (Banned)
 
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No one is saying that you couldn't make money but you have to have a good location; one that will give you a large customer base. You're already at a disadvantage because your season will probably be shorter in Canada.
What is the population within a 50-80 mile radius?
There are fields close by to us, in an area that size with a population of a couple of million people, that have no players on some days.

Last edited by Shore Paintball : 08-24-2005 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 08-24-2005, 09:48 PM #23
BlueOnBlack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NO.SPD.LIMIT
If all you are looking to do is make money, paintball stores are not the "TV dinner" of wealth. To own a store you have to be in it for the love of the game and the satisfaction of providing customers with great service. Some times I wonder why I opened. Most of the time Im happy with the world I call Paintball.
From an adult, business professional that got into the game to spend some 'quality time' with his teen-age son...

These thoughts echo my experience with successful shop and field operators. You will not get rich quick, likely not ever. But, you may be able to pay the mortgage, put food on the table and enjoy the life you choose.

'...for the love of the game...', coupled with good business sense, seems to be the driving, differentiating factor between success and failure.
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Old 08-24-2005, 10:24 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blautsauger
Instead of being a lawyer, go look into the Medical profession. Much more honorable, and not that much more school. Plus, there is always a demand for a doctor or nurse or whatever. You can go just about anywhere in the world and be able to work.

And I think what everybody has been saying isn't that there is not alot of money, but there is much more hard work than most people would think and you should not expect to get rich. Comfortable is better term. Maybe subcomfortable in some cases. But that is the same regarless of what business you choose to open and run.
What do you consider RICH? ($ per year)?
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:34 PM #25
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More money you make, the more bills you have....it all depends on your lifestyle. Most people see money and start blowing it away. If your smart, you'll save for a rainy day (down time). Some of the stores in my area are closing their doors cuz they dropped prices to gain customers but ended up killing themselves by not making the profit margins they are suppose to. It is heartbreaking to see couple of my competitors/buddies open their doors and close due to their neglegence and ignorance.

BE PREPARED TO SAVE YOUR REWARDS FOR A RAINY DAY.
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Old 08-25-2005, 11:27 PM #26
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I myself just closed my store/field. I was in the biss for 9 years and I can say with full beliefe that paintball is dying out. Profits have shrunk to nothing. I was making more money off of paint sales when paint cost me $50 a case.
Internet companies started the process of killing the sport off by selling things for next to wholesale. After that the major companies sold out to the walmarts and chain stores thus driving the last nail in the coffin. Cheap paint costs me $21.20 wholesale, Now you can goto wallmart or any major retail sporting good store and buy a case of "afordiballs" for $25- a case. Add to that the cut throat mentality of everyone in the biss and you have a recipe for bancruptcy. 3 stores and 1 field have all closed in my area in the last 3 months alone and one store that has been in the biss for over 15 years is on deaths door.
The best thing I ever did with paintball was get out of it. Take my advice and stay away from owning a paintball biss.
The only peopel in this biss that are making money at this point are the manufactorers. I was told last wek that both national and PMI are having terrible years and have actualy had to lay staff off.
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:06 AM #27
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I feel that this most recent statement is false.

Very few people will make a million doing paintball retail/fields. Some will grow very large, and they will make a comfortable living doing so. Its no fortune 500, but its a healthy living.

Others, not the majority, will make a passable living doing paintball. They will enjoy themselves (most of the time), pay the mortgage, truck payment, and pay for a few of lifes more comfortable things.

The majority, however, will fail. They will feel they must compete with the internet, making price the major point of what they sell and do. News flash, field owners. You have something the internet and wally-world dont. You have a field. You have skills that are marketable in ways that you must only think about, and present. A customer is willing to pay a few dollars more to buy a product from a local store if they can walk in, handle the product, be briefed in its use... and if it breaks, you fix it hassle free.... even if it is thier fault.

What it simply comes down to then, is placing an appropriate value on the product (be it services or goods) you sell. Dont undercut yourself, remember, the light bill doesnt pay itself. You cant play ball with walmart, with gear, with 888.... offer something they cant. Service.

That being said, I will close with a final thought on "paintball at its end". In 2003, paintballs dollar volume as an industry grew 50%. In 2004, it grew 75%. Think about it... more people played paintball last year than were playing baseball. Its huge. Look at this website for gods sake. EVERYTHING plateaus. Its not cookies and cream all the time. In times of financial hardship (wartime, high fuel costs) people have less money to spend on recreation. This is what you are seeing. You had a bad year? Then throw in the towel, and be like the other 3 fields we bought when they didnt plan well enough or couldnt handle the stress of being in business.

No one said it was easy, but then, why be proud of something that was easy? Its not always the money...
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:23 AM #28
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Well said.
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Old 08-26-2005, 11:32 PM #29
grinch
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I was just about to post a huge responce to your statements but I just deleted all of it. I dont feel that saying what I have to say will make any difference and somone will just retort with somthing else and it will just turn into a p!ZZing match. not what Im in the mood for and yet another one of the many reasons I want out of the paintball world
All I will say is that I was doing paintball as a biss for almost 10 years and have seen the industry go from somthing you could make some kind of money on ( no not get rich, just be able to atleast cut some kind of paycheck is all im talking about here) To a biss thats almost impossible to make any kind of money in.
What I see happening to paintball now is what happend to skateboarding. Skateboarding was a growing industry in 84. the market was booming soon major chain stores and mailorder magazine companies got into the fray, eventualy everyone had a skateboard. the market became flooded for lack of a better word and skateshops couldnt compete to make money becuase the proffit margin had been chewed down to nothing. eventualy skate shops closed down becuase their was no money to be made. Next the major retailers stoped selling skateboards becuase pretty much everyone had them and moved onto whatever the next big fad was.
now 10 years later skateboarding has returned and is thriving agien but the difference is that the suppliers learned they need to protect their dealers. Price policies have been put into place to protect mark-up thus forcing stores to compete in areas of customer service to get their biss.
Paintball in many ways is at that same point right now. yes everyone is playing but thir buying everything from walmart or internet bobs basement paintball and yes internet companies are feeling the pinch as well right now), Many parents would rather thier kids play in the back yard then play at a field becuase they dont want to spend the money. I know this becuase parents told me this. They could pay $70 for a case of paint ,all day entry and air ( and free gun rental!) but why when walmart is selling paint for $35 a case and its $2- to get a tank filled and play in the back woods for free. If the gun breaks? just return it to walmart and get a new one.
One last point and then I will never post anythign on here agien so feel free to pick me apart on all of this. When the major wholesale companies (national,PMI ect.) in the industry are telling you they are hurting and laying people off for the 1st time ever, dosnt that say somthing? These are the people who supply us with our product to sell to the public.Its kinda like sayign that everyone has a job but their all working at mcdonalds. :-) If paintball is really growing so strong and things are going that great then why have so many stores and fields in the detroit area closed in the last year(6 so far and 2 are on the way out.). If you dont beleave this post then simply call any paintball stores in the detroit area, futureball, battle grounds we are all hurting. Even exotic sports who has been in the biss for close to 18 years is taking a very strong hit right now. I was just informed today that another local major store is geting out of the biss of paintball and converting their store to a bike shop.
sorry to be so negative but im trying to spare somone the fate that I sufferd. I lost everything becuase I wouldnt see the wrighting on the wall...
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Old 08-27-2005, 06:53 AM #30
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And yet paintball is the fastest growing sport in the US......
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:28 AM #31
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Saves them money or not, it's a good "thinking outside of the box" idea. That's what it takes to overcome the competition.
i wouldnt exactly call it thinking outside the box, i would actually call it being extremely cheap
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:36 AM #32
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Don't go, Blaut. Your opinions are needed, welcomed, and appreciated!

First, Skate has no MAP or price protection. I hate MAP. Every few months, someone new comes into the skate market selling online near cost. They quickly go under.

MAP protects the _web_ guys, not brick and mortar. MAP is policed primarily by the _web_ guys! They love 30-40% margins at their quantity. Remove MAP, watch the cheapest guys fail.

Stores have to focus on what makes them money. Clothing, paint, fills, accessories. If an item is under $99, don't price it on the online price. Print up some samples of "What this $49 Widget costs from PB Heaven.com" Show customers the $39 goggle + shipping is $55. Sure, $200 = free shipping. We always give deals for large purchases.

I'm developing some "buy direct" products right now focused on strictly retail stores and fields. No ebay, No dotcoms. Much better quality, much better margins. NPS, Dye, SP have given us decent service. But they need to make money, too. I'll go direct-to-MFG on some items, and buy from distro on others.

I'm through worrying about the dotcoms. Our website is going to become our clearance centet -- web margins are not worth the headaches.

We recently raised our air fill prices for non loyal customers. No one beefed. Don't price yourself out of business.

I embrace Wal*Mart. They send me 5+ new customers per week.

We've outlasted 6 of 8 competitors in 4 years. We only stumbled when we chased tournament / online customers. I'm never making that mistake again.

--dada
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:40 PM #33
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Im glad their are people out ther that had better luck then we did. Net and local big retail out priced us and customers refused to shop with us or play at our location becuase we wouldnt lower our prices to compete at that level. . I gues it depends on what region your in.
The only thing I will disagree with is the whole MAP pricing. It does protect dealers by keeping internet ( and no not all net companies are bad) from selling model 98's for $10 above wholesale. on that note I would like to thank national paintball supply for having a hand in 888 paintball and puting yet another nail in the coffin.
suffice to say I gues I will agree to simply disagree and not cuase I keep gettign sucked back into this forum .
P.s. sorry if any of the statments I have made have pIzt anyone off . Their just my personal experiences and are not ment to call anyone stupid or anything.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:53 PM #34
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Oh, I am not going to go, I just find it difficult to believe that a person that has been in the business as long as grinch has was done under by all the chain stores with their equivalant of a "Saturday Night Special" and crap paint. Although I may be mistaken, it sounds like grinch was giving what all business owners have been doing in recent years, a quality product that will cost a bit more, but is backed with great service and an interaction that can't be bought from an online retailer or huge chain store.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:59 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leprechaun8942
i wouldnt exactly call it thinking outside the box, i would actually call it being extremely cheap
Is it? I bet they save a good chunk of change by doing this. And that's what everyone is trying to do. Save money and make a living. Being cheap would be like.... making their own balls. But hey, if they made a damn nice ball then would you consider it being cheap?

And I'll say this. I've ran through the numbers for my area. I've come to the conclusion that MY MONEY CAN BE INVESTED BETTER ELSEWHERE. Yes, I'm positive I could make a living..... but I could do better, so why bother? I love paintball, but I'm trying to make my own business and work for myself. Set my standards high to get the high rewards. Spend the money I make elsewhere on paintball gear from your guy's store.
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Old 08-27-2005, 02:24 PM #36
grinch
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oh we tride doign the customer service thing. I mean really if you own a paintball store that goes without sayign YOU HAVE TOO or you simply will not survive. But people in our area just didnt really care about that, they only cared about " how cheap can I get this stuff for so my kid can play paintwar" We would tell people " that paint you are buying is garbage paint thats been sitting for a long time, its going to be hard as a rock" most common answer was " yeah but I dont care and neither do my kids, they just want it to shoot out their guns" followed by ( and I just loved this line, If I had a doller for everytime I heard this one ,and Im sure all store owners have heard it.) " Were not pro players or anything, were not like you guys with your balloon bunkers. We are just screwing around in the woods to have fun...."
oh well tae care guys. :-)
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Old 08-27-2005, 02:51 PM #37
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We get a TON of Wal*Mart markers in for repair every day. $25 per repair, always. Do you know how many people refuse to pay? None. We'd rather repair these all day long than anything. Buy a marker from us (we charge PEVS.COM price which is WAY over the Internet price) and we give free lifetime labor. Of course I want people buying their markers online. Much more cash to be made over the long run.

MAP is bad for retailers. If 98's had no MAP, they'd sell for $119 like they used to. The companies would be out of business as fast as the skate shops online go when they sell near cost. I'd continue to sell my 98's for $139 and my Pro's for $179. Let the Internet guys run themselves bankrupt. MAP gives them a ton more profit than it gives me.

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Old 08-27-2005, 03:31 PM #38
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Look hard, and you will notice that some of the big online dealers are ignoring MAP. They get creative to do it. Some even fall within the rules, but not the spirit.
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Old 08-27-2005, 04:27 PM #39
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We thought about screwing with the dotcoms and opening a website called OpenBoxPaintball.com. Open every box that comes in, now its not "brand new in box" and you can violate MAP happily. I'm just waiting for the big boys to start doing this and really see us brick and mortars go crazy.

Honestly, MAP does nothing for me. I don't care what the Internet price is. 80% of my customers who use us for servicing don't care either. All it takes is one customer walking out the door when we refuse to budge on our pricing, buy it online, have it break, and get a $50 repair bill from us for a 2 day rush repair. They learn their lessons after the first time something breaks.

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Old 08-27-2005, 04:55 PM #40
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this is a bad year for pb, i havnt been able to go very much at all this year, and it kills me on the inside.

it sucks though becuase i cant get a real job (only 14) and i just started doing a paper route. hopfully that will help me out alil bit.
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Old 08-27-2005, 05:29 PM #41
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this is a bad year for pb, i havnt been able to go very much at all this year, and it kills me on the inside.

it sucks though becuase i cant get a real job (only 14) and i just started doing a paper route. hopfully that will help me out alil bit.
because pb really revolves around how ofter you go
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Old 08-27-2005, 06:01 PM #42
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Quote:
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because pb really revolves around how ofter you go
i hope you mean how often you go, but yeah i dont get to practice or anyting.
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