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Old 07-30-2001, 02:03 PM #22
Dyoel182
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The reason people the autococker is so more accurate is that is was like the first gun to come with a reg to stabalize velocity. I read that somewhere that also had stats to prove it wasn't anymore accurate than any other mid-level gun.

I really believe it's how comfortable and used to shooting your gun that makes you accurate. Ive seen people do amazing things with Stingrays and I've seen people shoot horrible with Shockers.
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Old 07-30-2001, 03:42 PM #23
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Ender and meph-im not "brainwashed" into thinking high dollar markers are better. ive shot cockers, e-mags, impulses, and alot of other markers, i like my m98 in fact i love it, it has sort of a cute ugliness to it, kinda like a warthog...but the simple fact is that when i shot the cocker compared to my 98' i like the cocker better...whats so wrong with that...when did personal preference turn into being "brainwashed"....i dont get it...
its whatever yanks yer crank i guess...
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Old 07-30-2001, 04:16 PM #24
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I've shot an Imp, Timmy, A.Angel, minimag, cocker, pro-lite, vm-68, icon, and my current gun, 98C... there is a difference between guns that cost an arm and a leg (such as the angel) and guns that are fairly cheap (98's) and that is fit and finish - and, i believe, thats it...

what makes a gun accurate and stable? nitro... add a good secondary reg and a decent barrel and the 98 can stack up to anything else on the field... I know... i recently went from an exp-chamber+CO2 setup to palmer stab+nitro and I hold more than my own against high-end guns .... the LP and RT kits help but even without them my 98 still whoops butt

and its funny the camaro-civic comparo was brought up because I look at my 98 as a camaro - you know, the american muscle car that you can customize and get in deep while the angels and the e-mags are like ferraris and porsche's - great rides but you dont really wanna touch the internals too much...
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Old 07-30-2001, 04:26 PM #25
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a stock LCD angel is more accurate than any cocker


but that is besides the point

i hate taht some people think htat cockers are the greatest guns everymade!!
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Old 07-30-2001, 08:37 PM #26
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Actually, I DO think that the newer cockers are the greatest guns ever made. That's my personal opinion, though. Don't go flaming me about "they aren't the best," because it's an OPINION.

I really don't think that the 98 is as good as a Cocker. Price is actually a factor in this. To get a 98 to shoot as well as a cocker, you have to get a LP setup (over $100), get a new barrel (the cocker's stock barrel is GREAT), and get a regulator. Let's say $125 for the gun, $120 for the LP kit, $70 for the regulator, and $50 for the barrel (I could be a little off on a couple of those #s).

That adds up to $365. Or, you could buy a Cocker for $325. All you need for the Cocker is a bottomline ($15). So, you have a gun that comes to you stock for $15 less that shoots just as well, is easier to strip, is probably the most quiet semi on the market, shoots faster, comes with a good regulator, and is nice and short, and is even more upgradeable than a 98 Custom.

That's why I think the cocker is better.
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Old 07-30-2001, 09:16 PM #27
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do you thin the cocker is better than an angel or an excalibur??


the excailber runs at like 175psi and the and still gets 1600 shots off a 68 4500 tank!

the angel is one of the most accurate and least maintaniece guns out there

the cocker is a high maintaniece
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Old 07-30-2001, 09:56 PM #28
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hey the new cockers are not high maint. you might be thinking of the older cockers but the new cockers are pretty easy to take care of and fix...provided you know what your doing if you go in there and start turning screws not knowing what they do and ****in around with the gun then obviously your gonna muck up your gun. But that could be said about any gun... m98 included...
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Old 07-31-2001, 01:33 AM #29
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Actually... if you don't get the timing right on the cocker... you'll spend that money you just saved on spare parts, quickly. That is the only reason I hate cockers. I love how they perform and feel and everything... but it's also a pain in the *** at the same time. Plus, a ball shot to the pneumatics is a ***** to clean!

As for how much I put in... enough. I could've bought that Icepaintball Epic I want w/ the money. However... I put that much money in..... in 3 years worth of time. I didn't slap it all down at once, that's 3 years of playing for a while, then upgrade. Play for a while, upgrade. This way, if anything goes wrong, I'll know exactly what it is. Plus, with that way, I don't save for 2 years and not play any paintball at all. I just upgrade a little at a time and I play through all those years. Because unlike some people, I'm not a little newbie who's parents buy them a brand new angel on my first day of paintball (not commenting on you... but you know who you are that I am talking about... newbie!!).

And I never did say you were brainwashed... I don't think. However, I do know of a field owner like that. If something went wrong with your guy, he'd say, "How much did you pay for this?" You'd give an answer, and if it wasn't in the thousands, it was a piece of crap (I hate that guy).

So I have no problem with you saying that you feel the cocker's better. What I do have a problem with is when people say that a 98 CAN'T be as good as [insert name of gun here]. Because it's a bunch of crap, it can be just as good. Hell, if you want, you can say you love how your Avenger performs, I won't diss ya or anything. It'll only be when you say you love how your Avenger is so much better than a 98, and that a 98 could never be as good.

And what I hate is the Vert feed cocker. They move the damn tube 45 degrees.... and they charge an extra 100 bucks. Big whoop, I can have a vert feed with no extra advantage except I can't have a sight anymore... and I'm charged 100 dollars more. And they say vert feed feeds faster... well, not by much. It's not worth the extra cost compared to right or left feed.
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Old 07-31-2001, 02:40 AM #30
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first off we are trying to compare guns that are soo different in mechanics its almost funny.. yes the M98 is a great gun and it can be modified so that it can compete close to the level of the high end guns.. the problem mainly comes down to the valve design.. the flow needed in the valve (even with LP mods) just is to restrictive and it dose effect consistancy (not much but noticable durring rapid fire strings)
secondly NO gun is more accurate than another PERIOD.(ill clarify more if i have to) accuracy comes by consistancy, barrel/paint, user.
maintanance: all depends on who owns the gun.. ive seen m98 users who have no idea how to use and maintain their guns.. they do not lube or clean them so they are always breaking down... its the same with any gun.. my cockers have no problems.. i take them out of my bag, gas them up and play.. once set they run like a dream.. and yes Angles have very little maintance but when they do go down its a pain.. i know how to fix them and i still had to send my LCD out when the board fried.. each gun has its inherent problems.. we can nit pic all day at them and get nowhere..
why try to say one gun is "better" than another? personaly i dont like the excal.. ive used them and they just dont feel right to me.. dose that make my M98s, Cockers, Angles any better?? no.. just not for me.. "better" is a relative term to the user.. a stingray can be a "better" gun if the user only has $70 and plays once or twice a year in their backyard. ill shut up now

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Old 07-31-2001, 03:46 PM #31
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amen

ill sum most of everything dager was trying to say in a few short words "its whatever yanks your crank"

and that guy at that field sounds like prick...

and i get my 2K1 cocker tommorow....and i get a free timing for life, and a lifetime warrenty and free labor so maybe i can convert you meph...or maybe not...heh
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Old 07-31-2001, 06:15 PM #32
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I agree completely with Dager and Meph very well said.
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Old 07-31-2001, 09:01 PM #33
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To whoever asked me if I thought that Cockers were better than Angels and all that stuff....

Yeah, I do. Not in terms of ROF, but otherwise, I'd take a Free-Flow Cocker over an Angel any day. I guess it's just because I don't like electros; I prefer semi-autos. I'm sure most people think Angels are better than Cockers, but I'm just not one of those people.

I actually consider both of those guns equal, they just are different, and I prefer the qualities in the Cocker. I like the stuff that makes the Cocker different, but I DON'T like the stuff that makes the Angel different.


And about this Model 98 debate:
Sure, a Model 98 CAN be made to be as good as an upper-end gun, but the upper-end guns come ready to rock, and they look a helluva lot better, too. I guess I just plain dislike the 98. Just personal preference. Nothing really technical about it; I don't think a Bushmaster is much better than a tricked 98.
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Old 07-31-2001, 10:47 PM #34
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Re: amen

Quote:
Originally posted by PayntbalMan98
....and i get a free timing for life, and a lifetime warrenty and free labor so maybe i can convert you meph...or maybe not...heh
Wait wait. Where did you get all those free things? Is that from a local store or something? It's usually hard to get those things unless you get it from a real custom shop like Palmers or Warped.
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Old 08-01-2001, 08:27 AM #35
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hey

yeah its from a local store...what the deal is for the 2k1 cocker is you get free timing, lifetime warrenty (you get a lifetime warrenty on all guns bought from the store), and free labor (provided the gun and parts were bought from the store) and the store usually has really good deals so i dont have to order anything off the net...its pretty sweet....
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Old 08-01-2001, 08:29 AM #36
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wow.. sweet deal.

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Old 08-01-2001, 11:02 AM #37
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FSU, ofcourse they're ready to rock... you get all the upgrades stock on the gun, and pay that much more anyways at once instead of an upgrade at a time.

Which is why I love the M98 and Autocockers. 3/4 of the guns' fun is in the tinkering and upgrading of these guns. And according to tippmann, the 98Custom now is the most upgradable gun on the market, not the 'Cocker.

But any ways, like you just said FSU, it can be made. We agree on that. Now, if you sell my gun with what it has on it stock, which makes it as good as those guns... it'd sell for around 750 dollars (includes installation, and profit). And what do angels sell for? Ummmmm, probably DOUBLE that number.

And that Ironman series Angel? What a crock. Oooooh, pay the extra 300 dollars, it has an IronMan Jewel on it!!!
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Old 08-02-2001, 09:56 PM #38
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Actually, I think autocockers really do hypnotize people into buying them. It's the back block.

Model98's have the most BIG upgrades, but they still come nowhere near autocockers in shear volume of upgrades available. You can build an autococker out of nothing but aftermarket parts...then you can build another autococker, using nothing but aftermarket parts that you didn't use the first time. Autocockers are such money pits.
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Old 08-03-2001, 05:17 PM #39
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Yeah, you can go MUCH deeper into customizing a cocker than any gun. That's why they have so many cockers on the market right now, and maybe 5 variations of the 98 Custom, at the most. There's also a LOT more aftermarket parts for Cockers. Tippman is just plain lying when they say it's the most customizeable marker. It's the most customizeable LOW END marker.

BTW, if you're thinking of selling a 98 for $750, think again. You'll never get more than $400 for any 98. The resale value on the gun itself isn't bad, but upgrades really lose their value. Think about it: nobody's gonna buy a Tippman for $750 when they could get something like an Intimidator NEW for that price. Even if the 98 is as good as a Timmy, they're still not going to choose the 98.
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Old 08-03-2001, 09:26 PM #40
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Not resale there FSU, I'm talking about selling a brand new one w/ new upgrades installed.

I'm saying that if it came like that, it would probably go for 750, point being it's quite a bit less than an angel.

And resale for ANYTHING is pure CRAP. The only things that are decent are Cockers because people will blindly believe a used one is just as good as a new one... or something. It's just weird that I could buy a new Bushy, use it once, and only be able to sell it for half price I bought it for. But at the same time, have a 2000 autococker, beat the crap out of it while putting 10 cases of paint through it... and sell it for probably 50 bucks less than what I paid for it. Just weird.
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Old 08-04-2001, 04:42 PM #41
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It's all because of the stupid backblock hypmotism trick. Seriosuly though, I love the backblock moving especially on those new Spanky bodies with the extreme tube milling.
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Old 08-04-2001, 06:14 PM #42
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I know that an upgraded 98 Custom is great, but if I had a choice between a brand new tricked 98 Custom, or a brand new stock Intimidator, and they were the same price, I'd pick the Timmy, no question. So would most people.

Is there anything on the tricked 98 that the Timmy doesn't have?
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