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Old 03-04-2015, 10:13 PM #1
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It would be a sin not to bring up how poorly CPX indoor treated the teams of the NCPA

It would be a sin not to bring up how poorly CPX indoor treated the teams of the NCPA this past weekend:


What’s up nation, Facebook, or wherever this ends up. I have sat on this post for a couple of days, and decided that this can really not go unsaid. I’ll start from the beginning, the NCPA (college paintball) had scheduled a tournament on Feb. 28th at 8 am. There was about 13 teams signed up originally if I can remember. I, like many, sent in the paperwork for the tournament as fast as possible as to my respective college as we are required to inform the university at least two weeks in advance, got hotels booked, and had all travel plans arranged. On February 24th, 4 days before the tourney, we were informed that the time was switched from 8 am to 5pm. With this little of notice, it’s basically impossible to for college teams to reschedule, let alone any team. At this point it was a mad scramble to try to get everyone informed, beg the univ. to let us move the time for travel, and try to get our hotels rebooked. Other teams weren’t as lucky as I believe 3 teams had to drop out. No compensation or explanation was offered by CPX, the NCPA did offer to refund us our entry if we couldn’t make it, but that was it.


Jump to the 28th. My team arrived at around 4:00 pm to the field, worrying about being late. That was the least of our worries. CPX still had rental groups on the field, and informed us that once again they were pushing us out of the way until 6 pm so CPX could get in all of the rental groups it had, when the NCPA had reserved a spot almost 1 MONTH in advance. It was clear at this point CPX was simply looking to make the most money as possible. There were no chronos ready for us, no time set for a captains meeting, no paperwork ready for the teams to fill out. When my coach or I asked about much of anything, most responses were way less than professional, and one that stuck out was “You should feel privileged to be here” as if we didn’t pay hundreds of dollars to play this event. The paint was the worst paint I have ever shot at an event, and possibly even a practice. By the end of the event, out of the 11 guys we had rostered, we had six working guns because of the terrible grade of paint that was used. This is where it gets even crazier: Our a and b line had to play each other for 3rd and 4th place for the event. At this point most of our guys are frustrated, tired, and really just ready to get out of there and we had 6 WORKING GUNS. One of the guys of our b line decided to run and dive under the a as we honestly weren’t taking these points too seriously. When one of our guys did that, an unnamed ref stopped the point mid game and proceeded to drill us about how we were “disgracing the NCPA.” I have never seen such unprofessionalism from a ref before. I really hope this rather long letter gets to the right people as this is leaving me thinking, should this be a venue for the PSP, NCPA, or any other tournament series. Based off of the performance this weekend, the answer is pretty obvious.
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Old 03-04-2015, 11:35 PM #2
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I completely agree and Im glad someone said it. One thing that stuck out to me and really annoyed me was the one unnamed ref complaining about how he was going to have to be their all night to clean up to open in the morning the next day. I can have no sympathy for this person when they knowingly overbooked and pushed the tournament back. After playing the tournament I highly doubt I would ever go back, even as someone who lives less than 45 minutes from the field, simply because of the way we were treated. The paint is a whole different story, not really sure what the problem was there but it was simply horrible.
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Old 03-05-2015, 09:38 PM #3
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Hey guys...

It's one thing to have legitimate criticism of an event.

When you start talking about your guns being down because of the paint, you're just being silly.

I've been playing paintball for over 20 years and I've never had a gun cease to function because of the paint. Break some paint? Sure. Completely stop working? Ridiculous.

Your last point was stopped because two of your players were barrel-rolling down the field. For those who may not know what this is, that's when a person lays down, then rolls along the ground like they are on fire.

That is an extra high level of silliness. More importantly than that, it's a safety problem - it's just not the way your mask is designed to work (i.e. stay on your face). The ref was absolutely correct to end that game... if you didn't want to play, you should have just forfeited it out.

I understand the frustration with the schedule change or the delayed start. We were not happy with that either, and we understand the inconvenience. But let's try to keep any comments within the realm of reality.


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Old 03-05-2015, 09:49 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ego7baller View Post
I completely agree and Im glad someone said it. One thing that stuck out to me and really annoyed me was the one unnamed ref complaining about how he was going to have to be their all night to clean up to open in the morning the next day. I can have no sympathy for this person when they knowingly overbooked and pushed the tournament back. After playing the tournament I highly doubt I would ever go back, even as someone who lives less than 45 minutes from the field, simply because of the way we were treated. The paint is a whole different story, not really sure what the problem was there but it was simply horrible.
You know one person saying this from your team was probably enough... and considering everyone had to use the same paint (assuming because that's how it's been for us) then everyone is on the same playing field. Our second event we had Liberty vs Liberty in the finals and no one complained. If you really didn't wanna play it forfeit it because who really gives a **** if you A or B squad wins a 3/4 place game?
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:18 PM #5
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This is where it gets even crazier: Our a and b line had to play each other for 3rd and 4th place for the event ...
You're upset that you weren't allowed to play Starfox in the finals after both your lines got knocked out?
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:02 AM #6
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Quote:
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Hey guys...

It's one thing to have legitimate criticism of an event.

When you start talking about your guns being down because of the paint, you're just being silly.

I've been playing paintball for over 20 years and I've never had a gun cease to function because of the paint. Break some paint? Sure. Completely stop working? Ridiculous.

Your last point was stopped because two of your players were barrel-rolling down the field. For those who may not know what this is, that's when a person lays down, then rolls along the ground like they are on fire.

That is an extra high level of silliness. More importantly than that, it's a safety problem - it's just not the way your mask is designed to work (i.e. stay on your face). The ref was absolutely correct to end that game... if you didn't want to play, you should have just forfeited it out.

I understand the frustration with the schedule change or the delayed start. We were not happy with that either, and we understand the inconvenience. But let's try to keep any comments within the realm of reality.


- Chris
I'll rebuttal one at a time:

Paint: Sorry, but when there is paint literally seeping out of my eye covers, and my core looks about 50/50 paint and metal, I would consider that gun to be down, for all purposes of that tournament. There is no way to have guns fixed up past this point and back up, as we were running 2 lines, with no pit crew. I really don't think anybody that has ever played a tournament would disagree with that. It took me , pardon my language, but about an hour of cleaning to finally unf*** my gun from this weekend.

My player: I stand behind what I saw as I literally shot the player off the field who dove under the a, but let's just say he did barrel roll. I just put my mask on, and rolled back and forth on the ground. At no point does my mask get even close to getting bumped, or coming off.... How is that any more dangerous of me super man sliding into the snake every point? Safety issue is a HUGE stretch.

As an overall, I think any ref saying we are disgracing the ncpa, needs a bit of a history lesson. Iowa State has been playing the ncpa for getting close to over 10 years. We have been a consistent player in the league and all have made a lot of sacrifices to keep this team alive. We paid money to be at that event, and if my players want to go out and blow off some stress and get rid of that horrendous paint, I think they have the right to do so.

And as a league, I'm not hitting the ncpa for any of this. I am overall pretty happy with how the league is run currently. Chris you should actually get a hold of me through a pm or something as I have had a couple of pretty good ides for some places to run some tournaments here in the midwest. This post is not meant to simply slam cpx, but rather to bring to attention so we can nip this in the bud right away. I want this to NEVER happen to the ncpa again, and the best way to do that is to post your experiences for everyone to see imo. Let's learn from this, rather than sit around and try to defend, bicker, and fight.
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:07 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
You're upset that you weren't allowed to play Starfox in the finals after both your lines got knocked out?
Don't take my words out of context, you know full well what I was talking about. Can we be productive about this? I'm not looking to hurt anyone in specific here. I'm looking to help our fellow players and leagues, and I for one would vote not to have another ncpa event here for a while. See above for reasoning why.
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:17 PM #8
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Don't take my words out of context, you know full well what I was talking about. Can we be productive about this? I'm not looking to hurt anyone in specific here. I'm looking to help our fellow players and leagues, and I for one would vote not to have another ncpa event here for a while. See above for reasoning why.
Am I mistaken in reaching the conclusion that your team didn't take finals seriously and chose to mess around? I'm not mocking you here - that's a sincere question.
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:25 PM #9
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRKINGREY View Post
Don't take my words out of context, you know full well what I was talking about. Can we be productive about this? I'm not looking to hurt anyone in specific here. I'm looking to help our fellow players and leagues, and I for one would vote not to have another ncpa event here for a while. See above for reasoning why.
Am I mistaken in reaching the conclusion that your team didn't take finals seriously and chose to mess around? I'm not mocking you here - that's a sincere question.
Oh got ya. Yeah we were not taking finals too seriously. As were playing for 3rd and 4th. We had about 2 cases to blow through, and no one wanted to take it home. Never would've expected it to blown up the way it did. We've played each other hundreds of times, so it would be kind of like beating a dead horse.
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Old 03-06-2015, 04:01 PM #10
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lmao I would be straight up embarrassed to play for iowa after I read this.

what really gets me is 'beating a dead horse' for 3rd place at a tournament<-- disgrace to all

you fools were literally rolling around on the ground in a finals match and have the audacity to post a thread complaining?
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:57 PM #11
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A disgrace? Lol we played hard to get to that spot, just like everyone else.

I think everyone is taking this game just a little too serious. Paintball isn't some religion, where we can "shame it". Sheesh boys.
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Old 03-07-2015, 03:12 PM #12
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Oh got ya. Yeah we were not taking finals too seriously. As were playing for 3rd and 4th. We had about 2 cases to blow through, and no one wanted to take it home. Never would've expected it to blown up the way it did. We've played each other hundreds of times, so it would be kind of like beating a dead horse.
If you're going to treat finals like a joke, that's your choice. Just don't get upset when the refs refuse to play along.

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A disgrace? Lol we played hard to get to that spot, just like everyone else.

I think everyone is taking this game just a little too serious. Paintball isn't some religion, where we can "shame it". Sheesh boys.
First you make a thread complaining about the event, then you say it shouldn't be taken seriously. Which is it?
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:37 PM #13
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Is this seriously real life right now? lol. It's like you are focusing on one or two aspects. It was the event as a whole that was the problem. I understand people have issues, and stuff happens. But as a whole, there was way too many problems to ignore. I should've expected that we couldn't have a productive conversation here. Better luck next time i guess.

Pretty sad that the folks over on facebook were more mature then what is going on here.
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Old 03-09-2015, 01:35 AM #14
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Is this seriously real life right now? lol. It's like you are focusing on one or two aspects. It was the event as a whole that was the problem. I understand people have issues, and stuff happens. But as a whole, there was way too many problems to ignore. I should've expected that we couldn't have a productive conversation here. Better luck next time i guess.

Pretty sad that the folks over on facebook were more mature then what is going on here.
Let's go through your complaints one by one.

The event was rescheduled from 8am to 5pm.

Call the hotel yourself, change your reservation by one night, and be done with it. What is your school going to do? Suspend your club because you had to shift a hotel room over one night on short notice, and avoid driving home until 6am? The costs don't change and it's still the same hotel that your school approved in the first place. There's a very good chance they wouldn't notice the change if the check was already cut, much less throw a fit about it. I go to a school with silly amounts of red tape in the activities office and even they wouldn't make a big deal about this.

The event was pushed back again to accommodate recball players.

The CPX indoor was only recently completed, they have bills to pay, and the winter season is coming to a close. They have very few weekends left to make their money back (if even possible) and recball players were paying double what your team was. Not only that, but anyone that's worked at a field before can tell you rec groups frequently show up late and demand to get the same amount of playing time anyway. Besides, we all know how notoriously inaccurate tournament start times are. Let's be honest... far larger events have been delayed longer for far sillier reasons, like hungover refs or uninflated fields, and in the end the delay you experienced didn't really matter.

No compensation was offered by CPX.

You were offered a refund on your entry fee. That comes out of the pocket of CPX.

Paint wasn't shooting well.

First and foremost, this is beyond the control of the field. Beyond that, it's the winter. Paint sucks. Play around it. Send bodies farther off the break since the other team's lanes won't be working either, lower your velocity to reduce chopping, and carry an extra squeegee. Seeing that both of your lines made it out of prelims, you can hardly say the paint screwed you - especially when the teams that knocked you out were shooting the same thing.

Refs didn't appreciate your team treating finals like a joke.

Does anything really need to be said here?

I understand you're unhappy and you feel like you were wronged. That doesn't mean you should go around badmouthing a field like this, especially over reasons listed above. I've played multiple tournaments hosted by the same people as this one and they all went smoothly. They all treated teams well. A field pushed an event back to make room for their bread and butter customers, paint shot poorly in the winter, and refs didn't share your sense of humor in the finals. Life goes on. Good luck at nationals.
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Old 04-04-2015, 04:43 PM #15
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So the money was more important than the sport... Recballers over the NCPA... Come on really.... All I can say contact Will @ MiLP runs one of the best Tournaments around and I'm sure he can accommodate you all the next time...
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:52 PM #16
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So the money was more important than the sport... Recballers over the NCPA... Come on really.... All I can say contact Will @ MiLP runs one of the best Tournaments around and I'm sure he can accommodate you all the next time...
You know the sport includes recball players right?
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:29 PM #17
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If it matters I am the player that dove under the A. Im not going to say what i did was smart but in my defense I dove under the A and proceed to "barrel role" after i knocked the wind out of myself and got lit up by my teammates. I was trying to move out of play. Only then when the reffed stopped to lecture me was when i became upset. And the following point was a goof. And for anyone getting upset about us playing each other and messing around i truly dont understand. In my eyes we win as team and lose as a team. Our school took 3rd at that tourny so why not have fun and go out to play the point however. We didnt do anything wrong. We blew off steam and had fun, i am frustrated with how it was ran but in the end i played a game i love with my teammates/friends. I dont understand why people are getting so upset. we didnt fight, cheat, steal or disrespect the game or our school so i am confused on how this is a disgrace. Was the paint bad, well it was like shooting an eggshell filled with glue, but nothing we can do about that. The moved time was because of bad scheduling and that is on CPX, a tourny was set in advanced and you mess that up, bad management, mistake made.
But hey that's my two cents on something that is truly blowing out of proportion.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:20 PM #18
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All i want to say is i agree on the paint issue. we had one gun out of 9 that didnt chop every other ball. Everything from a tuned dm to a nice pooty luxe didnt matter it chopped.
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:52 PM #19
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If it matters I am the player that dove under the A. Im not going to say what i did was smart but in my defense I dove under the A and proceed to "barrel role" after i knocked the wind out of myself and got lit up by my teammates. I was trying to move out of play. Only then when the reffed stopped to lecture me was when i became upset. And the following point was a goof. And for anyone getting upset about us playing each other and messing around i truly dont understand. In my eyes we win as team and lose as a team. Our school took 3rd at that tourny so why not have fun and go out to play the point however. We didnt do anything wrong. We blew off steam and had fun, i am frustrated with how it was ran but in the end i played a game i love with my teammates/friends. I dont understand why people are getting so upset. we didnt fight, cheat, steal or disrespect the game or our school so i am confused on how this is a disgrace. Was the paint bad, well it was like shooting an eggshell filled with glue, but nothing we can do about that. The moved time was because of bad scheduling and that is on CPX, a tourny was set in advanced and you mess that up, bad management, mistake made.
But hey that's my two cents on something that is truly blowing out of proportion.
The refs are there because they enjoy the sport and are willing to get their **** shot in all day long so that others can play, especially at a competitive level. At the end of the day, they are tired, they have run more points than you, they have been shot more times than you--and at the end of the day, most of them that I have worked with or known still maintain some sense of humor. That being said, they still have a job to do and if during the last/second to last game of the day, it's completely obvious that the teams don't give a rip anymore--that's going to wear on your patience a bit. Obviously, there's a conflict of opinion and recall as to what constitutes "barrel rolling down the field," but if I had seen anything close to that, you better believe I'd kill that point. And dude, if you "barrel roll" because you "knocked the wind out of yourself" after diving, I will be happy to direct you to any number of professional-led clinics that will be able to teach you how to dive. And lastly, how do you think it looked to the teams that had not made it 3rd/4th place game and who see you ****s not caring at all?

I didn't see the situation, I wasn't there, but based on your comments in the thread and your justification of your past actions, I would say you and your teammates conducted yourselves very poorly.
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Old 04-17-2015, 06:08 PM #20
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I think you and many others are missing the point here. The point is that the teams of the ncpa were mistreated by CPX from beginning to end, and to bring this to light for this to never happen again. I wasn't here to defend my team or players as individual, but the league I love. What happens when you let stuff go? Case and point: CPL #1 started almost 2 hours late two weekends ago. If we continue to let things like this slide, then it becomes the norm.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:20 AM #21
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So I just wanted to post my 2 cents here. Obviously the way we handled ourselves in our final points was completely immature and disrespectful and there is no other way to say that. I do want to sincerely apologies on behalf of my team for that. There is nothing that we can say to justify the way some of us acted.

That being said, I do have some critiques that could allow this event to be run a bit more smoothly next time.

First one was the scheduling error. I believe that this was just an oversight on CPX's part. The only part I didn't appreciate was arriving there expecting to play at 5 but being told after arriving that we wouldn't start until at least 6 because the field had been booked till then. Just something that would have been nice to know beforehand, but at the same time it ensured that everyone was there on time ready to play at 6. This is just probably an oversight and disorganization somewhere within the fairly new facility. The main concern that we had with this is that we require two weeks notice with our school when planning a trip somewhere. When a couple days (I think it was wednesday before the event) we are notified of a change that shifts our overnight day from a friday night to a saturday night, doesn't always go so smoothly.

Paint wasn't that great but everyone had to use it so it was level playing field.

Turf was coming up in some places that could have caused a player to trip. I think it started to come up that day. I'm no expert on how turf is maintained or fixed in situations like this so I can't really offer advice on how to fix it or prevent it from happening.

The big thing that bothered me was a lack of a chrono. After the initial chrono line, the chrono seemed to disappear. I had to go ask a ref on the field to chrono a gun in between points. Then I got told by a different ref to use the chrono in the station when there wasn't one there. Eventually this did get sorted out to where they had one setup, but it came fairly later in the event.

With critiques, I'd like to have some positive points as well just so it seems I'm not super negative.

I thought the refs were amazing. There wasn't many, if any controversial calls from the evening that I remember. Penalties seemed on point and they were swift and firm with decisions.

The facility was nice. The bunkers were in great shape and the turf wasn't as slick as you would find in some indoor facilities which was really nice.

The event was run fairly smoothly once it got started. With some gun errors on our part, (which is a combination of our own error and lack of a chrono), everyone was pretty understanding and once it got started, it didn't stop till it ended. They knew we didn't want to be there all night and made sure that they got everyone out of there as quick as they can, but didn't make us feel rushed in any way.

All things considered, besides the scheduling error, I thought it was a well run event. Obviously not perfect, but no event ever is. I wish I could have changed the way we behaved in the finals and
at this point all I can do is apologize on behalf of my team and I. I will make sure that something like that doesn't happen again.
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