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Old 07-14-2002, 02:46 AM #1
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Low Pressure Pnumatics?

Is it possible to take the operating pressure of the pnumatics down so low to make the Blazer impervious to chopping paint like on a Free Flow?
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Old 07-14-2002, 01:27 PM #2
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Considering how much the Blazer design is so much the like design of an Autococker, I think it's entirely possible. Just keep in mind, you'll void the warranty on it (unless you could prod Palmer himself into doing it for you. Good luck).
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Old 07-14-2002, 02:51 PM #3
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I know it's possible I was wondering if anyone had done it, or does anyone out there know how to achive the same effect.
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Old 07-14-2002, 05:39 PM #4
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Well,

If I can ever get my hands on a blazer, I will be trying to do just that. I had an accident with a blazer a while ago, and the force of the bolt fractured my pinkie finger. I still want a palmer semi, but I will only shoot one with a lower cocking pressure.
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Old 07-15-2002, 07:07 PM #5
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What exactaly happend to yer pinky? You didn't put it in the feed tube did you?

This is my thoughts I don't knwo that much about free flow cockers but I'm assuming what they do to lower cocking pressure is lower the ammount of force needed to open the valve. Meaning a different spring set and possibly a different valve with higher flow. So by putting less tention on the valve spring the main spring can also be weaker thereby resulting in less cocking pressure needed to cock the gun and also letting the bolt travel forward with less forward energy and not pinching balls or movie guy's finger.

Anybody in here have experince with Freeflows.

Thanks
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:32 PM #6
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I'm not Movie guy, dude...

I'm z_mann_z!!! Any way, you got that right for the most part. Without delving deeply into the physics books, I will describ the ways to lower cycle (cocking pressure). First of all, the end result needs to be such that the hammer spring is the lightest possible. This can be attained by adding more mass to the force hitting the valve, lowering the input pressure and therefore the valve spring, and that's about all. The reason it is easy to do it in a cocker is the size of hammer and valve you can use. Also, in a cocker, there is more sace for air, increasing flow. The palmer valve is in a much smaller area, and this maeks it harder to decrease operating pressure. I also think adapting a blazer to use nelson springs would help lower cycle pressure, due to the more constant push and overall larger dimensions of the spring. That is just a guess though.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:59 AM #7
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Quote:
lowering the input pressure and therefore the valve spring, and that's about all.
Sounds like getting HV/LP Valving would benefit this modification.
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:44 PM #8
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Sorry Pump Guy/z man....
is it possible to mill out the airlet holes in the valve to increase flow. Or is it more of a problem of the actual surface area that the valve occupies is to small to acumulate the proper air flow.
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Old 07-16-2002, 03:30 PM #9
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Or, you could just pull the bolt out before you go sticking your fingers in the breech, fool. Seriously, the only troubles that I have had with chopping in my Blazer can be directly attributed to my own bad trigger operation or holding the gun at a crazy angle that wouldn't allow the balls to feed. Hey, if you can get it to work, then bully for you. I just don't see the great improvement that it would cause. Sure, it won't chop balls, maybe. Also, it won't break fingers, but what other performance improvements would there be vs. the effort and work needed? I am not trying to shoot down any ideas here, like I said it would be cool. I am just playing devil's advocate I guess, and zman, I still think that your broken finger is your fault, not Palmer's. There aren't very many guns that would NOT break something if you stuck it in the breech. It is kind of "dumb" (for lack of a better term) that you did stick one of your digits in there, I would hope that you realize that it was your mistake. Don't blame an inanimate object for your error.
Anyway, if you can get it done, i am sure that the POG guys and Tinker's Guild would be interested to see it. Good luck!

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Old 07-16-2002, 11:18 PM #10
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Question what if............

would lowering the pressure of the blazer decrease its range and efficiency? i, pretty sure it would lower efficiency
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Old 07-17-2002, 02:35 AM #11
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Basicly this Idea was brewed out of bordom. I just think it would be cool to see a Blazer do this. Efficiency would go down, but I currently have a 88/4500 Centerflag so it's all good. Also I've heard a rumor that a new version of the Blazer will be comming out that will allow for lower pressure operation. Not sure if this will also give the added effect of not chopping balls, but it would be cool.
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Old 07-17-2002, 08:51 AM #12
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new version, when, where did u hear this, this is great
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Old 07-17-2002, 10:26 AM #13
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On the Palmers Forum

ckealey
Quote:
Well, he said the new bodies are about 3/8" longer for several reasons. (I wasn't taking notes, so this is from my spotty memory) I believe the reasons were to enlarge the valve chamber, simplify the production/assembly somewhat, and there were also some other mods to actually slow down the cycle rate to speed up feeding. It sounds counter-productive, but it made sense the way he described it. He told be that during development of the Blazer, it originally cycled so fast that if they just put a ball in the feed port and cycled the marker, the bolt went back and came forward again too quickly for the ball to even drop far enough to chop, let alone fire. Of course, the longer body means a longer bolt, ram, and other misc. parts, so older bits may or may not be interchangeable. I'm sure there are other mods that he either didn't mention or I can't recall, but it sounds like they strictly fine-tuned the Blazer...ironed out some issues on the earlier models, and streamlined production, which means greater or faster supply to meet the tremendous demand. All in all, real improvements rather than the typical (for the PB market) "throw a cheap, useless reg on it, anodize it bright red or blue but don't fix any of the problems that have been around since the 'marker first came out."
You can check out the post at;
http://www.paintmagazine.com/cgi-bin...=8&thread=1164

So I guess instead of butchering Kelly(BZ 533) I'll just wait and see what the next generation of Blazers Bring forth.
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Old 07-17-2002, 10:53 AM #14
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ah

thanx dude, i think ill stick with my blazer i ordered
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:21 PM #15
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By design

The Blazer was designed to operate at the pressure they set at the factory. They offer low pressure high volume valves for people who want to keep up with the Joneses. All it does for the Blazer is reduce gas efficiency. I have only chopped paint in a Blazer because of short stroking. Even if you lower the cycling pressure you won't necessarily remove that problem unless you stop short stroking. I have asked the folks at Palmers many questions regarding low pressure operation and they understand what the rest of the industry is trying to accomplish. However, they built a gun to shoot on ANY gas with ANY paint and at the most gas efficient pressure settings. Palmer covers all the bases in the design of their guns. You didn't follow the crowd when you bought a Blazer, why start now? We must trust the greatness of Paladin. Just my opinion of course.
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Old 07-17-2002, 04:16 PM #16
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how offen and how able are u to short stroke the blazer, do you really have to crank the ROF on the blazer to short stroke it, or is it rather easy, cuz im ordering the double trig pro45 frame and i have i guess what they would call a "matrix finger" (i used to own a high end electro and really really shoot fast) i just dont wana rip a ultra fast string and short stroke

so i guess im asking u if short stroking is common with u and a major prob
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Old 07-17-2002, 04:33 PM #17
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operator error

I have the Benchmark 2-finger 45 frame and I short stroke maybe 3 times in a 15 minute game. The reason why is that my other gun is an Intimidator so it's not an easy transtition for me to make from two stage trigger to high-end electro and back. The Blazer can still rip insanely fast when tuned right and the operator is familiar with it. You just have to remember to pull all the way back and release all the way forward. The trigger pull is a hair over 4mm. Pretty dang good for a mechanical two-stage trigger. I have gone through over a case in a day without a short stroke and in that time the gun worked flawlessly. Hope that helps.
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:14 PM #18
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I also have the 2 finger 45 Benchmark Frame, I barly ever shortstork this trigger but my problem comes in out running my hopper or when there are only 3 balls in the feed neck. Basicly I can't justify buying a Halo and adding all that weight to my Blazer. My friend just got a Turbo Rev so I guess I'll try that.
Also the Blazer is so efficient that I would trade a little effiency for the ability to not chop paint at all. This I do not consider keeping up with the Joneses, it's not a mod that is just cool, it is verry functional. When you are playing a tourny having a dirty barrel is terrible and if you can reduce the chances of ball breaks that is a great advantage. Why do you think Tom Kaye "jumped on the band wagon" he didn't do it just to "keep up with the Joneses" if he was that way I think he'd have a bunch of useless crap for the Mag, every mod that comes out of AGD for their Mag's is for the most part 100% worth the money.
Also if Glen didn't feel that LP operation was bennificial why would there be a new version of the Blazer comming out. I love my Blazer and wouldn't trade it for anything on the market right now, shy of a Level 10 Micro E-mag.
The next thing I'd like to see on the Blazer is if it took cocker barrels. that would be really nice. Somethings Palmers is right on about but the paint to bbl match is not one of them. Matching your barrel to the paint is in the best intrest of your accuracy. Sorry for the rant I guess the "keeping up with the Joneses" comment got me cranky.....
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:14 PM #19
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thanks fellas, and your 2trig frame, is the trig pull nice and smooth and light or snappy, does it have much play to it?
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Old 07-17-2002, 10:41 PM #20
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Read the last line of my profile That was said on AO by "paladin" aka glenn palmer.

Tom Kaye has not gone LP Level 10 actually raises the op pressure of the gun. Level 10 just slows the bolt down so its impossible to chop or have bolt slap induced in barrel breakage. The pressure used to propel the ball is irrelevant to ball breakage.

The pressure used to drive the bolt is is a diffrent story.
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Old 07-18-2002, 10:03 AM #21
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Sorry Butterfingers I was commenting more on the effect that the level 10 mod has on the bolt not on the LP. The Blazer to have the same effect of pressure on the bolt needs to have the operating pressure lowered.
Easter, I would describe my pull as short and light yet responsive.
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