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Old 07-20-2005, 08:21 PM #1
DragunTES420
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Simple Mod.. Added 3-5+ BPS

Well i was having problems with my TES and tryin to find out the problem. I was told to put a coin behind the noid but i didnt do that. Instead i ripped a peice of thin cardboard and stuckit between the frame and the part of the noid that moves when u fire ]| <place cardboard here. This will shorten the length the noid has to travel before it resets itself thus increasing the rate of fire. I did this and it improved it alot. Its sooooo easy to do and helps alot so u might as well do it and u can always just take it out if you dont like.

The cardboard that i used was really thin, experiment with different sizes and just rip a nice sized peice and stick it on it there

by the way i still didnt figure out what was wrong but im gonna try agiain friday at the field and see if its giving me the same problems
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:33 PM #2
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ummm....there's already something like that, but its called shimming your noid.
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:34 PM #3
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ic well i didnt know that. but anyways it works so thats all that im worried about and im just helping some kids out.
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Old 07-20-2005, 10:26 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragunTES420
I was told to put a coin behind the noid but i didnt do that. Instead i ripped a peice of thin cardboard and stuckit between the frame and the part of the noid that moves when u fire ]| <place cardboard here.
That coin they said to put behind the noid... they meant to put it exactly where you put the cardboard to do the exact same thing, which is "shimming your noid"

Although when I get some free time I plan on getting a circular piece of thin rubber and putting that infront of a dime, and on the other side of the solenoid core's plate I plan on cutting out a ring of this thin rubber and putting there.

The coin for shimming noid (battery life) ... and the rubber for silencing the noid a bit since it's an annoying sound...
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Old 07-20-2005, 10:43 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragunTES420
Well i was having problems with my TES and tryin to find out the problem. I was told to put a coin behind the noid but i didnt do that. Instead i ripped a peice of thin cardboard and stuckit between the frame and the part of the noid that moves when u fire ]| <place cardboard here. This will shorten the length the noid has to travel before it resets itself thus increasing the rate of fire. I did this and it improved it alot. Its sooooo easy to do and helps alot so u might as well do it and u can always just take it out if you dont like.

The cardboard that i used was really thin, experiment with different sizes and just rip a nice sized peice and stick it on it there

by the way i still didnt figure out what was wrong but im gonna try agiain friday at the field and see if its giving me the same problems
As you already been told, it's called shimming the noid. Instead of a coin you used a piece of cardboard .

Also shimming your noid doesn't increase the rate of fire. Where do you get the "3-5+ BPS" increase in rate of fire from? What test was used? What proof? Sounds a lot like those threads where people claim to shoot 20BPS all the time.

Anyways, the real truth the shimming the noid is first to increase battery life and second it was a solution to people running regular 9V in there spyder frames.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:12 PM #6
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well it will add bps b/c the noid doesnt travel as far and the test i used was my ear just walking the trigger in my house actually and i was shooting faster than i could before soo uhh there
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:47 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragunTES420
well it will add bps b/c the noid doesnt travel as far and the test i used was my ear just walking the trigger in my house actually and i was shooting faster than i could before soo uhh there
Im not saying your pretty stupid and what not, so.....a spuddering spyder sounds like its shooting more than 10bps. So does that mean its shooting more than 10bps? no, thats what you hear not whats coming out.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:11 AM #8
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dude i dont even know what ur talking about and im not sure you do either. Obvisiously(sp) i know how fast i could walk my trigger before i did this and then after i did this i noticed that i could shoot it faster thats all im trying to say and it makes perfect sense if you think about it. If something doesnt have to travel as far to reset then its gonna increase the speed as in the BPS.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:17 AM #9
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im explaining how you are wrong.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:20 AM #10
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okman whatever you say is not goin to change what i know already happened so u might as well just stop b/c i know that im right b/c its my gun and its in front of me and not in front of you.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:30 AM #11
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i wont stop cause, i know thats wrong and im not stupid, my friend shimmed his noid made a louder sound WHOOP'd DEE doo! made the battery life longer and didnt increase bps. I want PROOF, show me a vid then ill shut up. Show me a vid of the unshimmed noid then show me a vid of the shimmed noid.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:58 AM #12
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ok first of all i dont know why it would make it louder, but maybe i havent shot it with paint yet.. And my camera is broken and i dont have the wire to take it from the camera do the computer. And if makes my bettery life longer than thats cool with me to. But all im saying is and i actually cant prove it but i believe it made me be able to pump out more bps.

Heres me (Unshimmed) - Wow i cant really shoot to fast, but who cares i hate to waste the paint anyways.

New me (shimmed) - Holy **** i can walk it faster now, wooo but i still dont care
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:13 AM #13
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it won't add bps unless you actually pull the trigger faster. a system X NME has shorter bolt and ram stroke than a timmy, and if what you say is true it would be faster. not so. its still one shot one pull, and i actually shot a 2k2 faster than my friends nme. think logically, not fairy tale land. just cause you're wrong and you don't want to be you don't have to be an ***.
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Old 07-22-2005, 07:22 AM #14
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Do you know how fast the noid pulls in the plunger? It's less 1/100 of a second (equivalent to 10ms). Now logically thinking you would need to pull 101BPS in order for the noid to skip your trigger pull. Next the board is capped at 20BPS, which means the logic of the circuit is timed. At 20BPS there is a 50ms pause between trigger pull. Therefore even if you put that shim in there, the time for the noid to pull in the plunger and drop the sear would drop, but there is no point in doing so because of the 50ms pause between each trigger pull if set at 20BPS.

So in short, it doesn't increase your ROF because even though the sear drops faster, your still limited by the pause the board takes after each shot.

The only things that can cause a delay or a slow down in the gun would be:
1. Slow loader
2. Slow reading eye
3. Dirty eye
4. Paint hard for the eye to see
5. Heavy trigger (maybe even a trigger not setup to the user

Also your little test means nothing without being able to provide solid proof. Make a video with the only variable the shim and prove me wrong. It maybe clicking faster to you now, but I bet thatís without paint because you do know the eye logic on Draguns do slow down the gun right? Of course you did, right?

Iíve built some of the sickest Draguns youíll find here on the board and I know what Iím talking about. Also timmy owner knows his **** too, he owns one of the guns Iíve worked on and help build it too. So prove us wrong or just admit itís all BS with these numbers pulled out of your own imagination. You didnít even have any data to analyze to claim the 3-5BPS increase when you posted this!

Last edited by ShutterShooter : 07-22-2005 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:11 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShutterShooter
Do you know how fast the noid pulls in the plunger? It's less 1/100 of a second (equivalent to 10ms). Now logically thinking you would need to pull 101BPS in order for the noid to skip your trigger pull. Next the board is capped at 20BPS, which means the logic of the circuit is timed. At 20BPS there is a 50ms pause between trigger pull. Therefore even if you put that shim in there, the time for the noid to pull in the plunger and drop the sear would drop, but there is no point in doing so because of the 50ms pause between each trigger pull if set at 20BPS.

So in short, it doesn't increase your ROF because even though the sear drops faster, your still limited by the pause the board takes after each shot.

The only things that can cause a delay or a slow down in the gun would be:
1. Slow loader
2. Slow reading eye
3. Dirty eye
4. Paint hard for the eye to see
5. Heavy trigger (maybe even a trigger not setup to the user

Also your little test means nothing without being able to provide solid proof. Make a video with the only variable the shim and prove me wrong. It maybe clicking faster to you now, but I bet thatís without paint because you do know the eye logic on Draguns do slow down the gun right? Of course you did, right?

Iíve built some of the sickest Draguns youíll find here on the board and I know what Iím talking about. Also timmy owner knows his **** too, he owns one of the guns Iíve worked on and help build it too. So prove us wrong or just admit itís all BS with these numbers pulled out of your own imagination. You didnít even have any data to analyze to claim the 3-5BPS increase when you posted this!
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:30 PM #16
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ok maybe you guys are right but its sounds faster to me thats all im saying and im not being an *** i was just saying something that i thought that made my gun shoot faster ohh well though its time for this thread to come to an end i think ha thanks guys for proving me wrong i guess and giving me some more info on pb but i still think it clicks a lil fatser than it did before
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:33 PM #17
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Originally Posted by DragunTES420
ok first of all i dont know why it would make it louder, but maybe i havent shot it with paint yet.. And my camera is broken and i dont have the wire to take it from the camera do the computer. And if makes my bettery life longer than thats cool with me to. But all im saying is and i actually cant prove it but i believe it made me be able to pump out more bps.

Heres me (Unshimmed) - Wow i cant really shoot to fast, but who cares i hate to waste the paint anyways.

New me (shimmed) - Holy **** i can walk it faster now, wooo but i still dont care
Now im saying your pretty stupid now. Oh No! its shocking
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Old 07-22-2005, 04:46 PM #18
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i don't understand why you all have to be wankers to this guy. Its simple..tell him what the shimming does and what it improves and that it won't effect his BPS. If he hears it and feels it makes him faster..then let him enjoy that.

Logically..i see his argument that the noid doesn't travel as far to activate and reset..so maybe the NOID is faster, but the gun probably doesn't shot faster if there is an induced time delay by the eyes/board and things that shutter mentioned.

In summation..don't be wankers..no one on here needs to prove anything to anyone. Just so you know..coming from the outside on this thread..everyone but Cube and DragonTES sounded like childish, my-daddy's-timmy-ownerz-you-on-the-field players who should be given brass eagles and have to earn back their real guns by acting more mature.
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Old 07-22-2005, 05:05 PM #19
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Originally Posted by GoblyGoop
i don't understand why you all have to be wankers to this guy. Its simple..tell him what the shimming does and what it improves and that it won't effect his BPS. maybe you didn't read the thread.. we did that, and got replies that sounded like he was talking out his *** If he hears it and feels it makes him faster..then let him enjoy that.

Logically..i see his argument that the noid doesn't travel as far to activate and reset..so maybe the NOID is faster, but the gun probably doesn't shot faster if there is an induced time delay by the eyes/board and things that shutter mentioned. does it even matter if the noid is faster? that noid before shimming even cycled faster than is even necesscery. he could be pulling 75 bps with an uncapped board, his noid would still keep up easily. what wouldn't keep up would be his regs and airflow rate.

In summation..don't be wankers..no one on here needs to prove anything to anyone. Just so you know..coming from the outside on this thread..everyone but Cube and DragonTES sounded like childish, my-daddy's-timmy-ownerz-you-on-the-field players who should be given brass eagles and have to earn back their real guns by acting more mature. me and shutter providing actual stats and comparisions is childish and immature? i never would have guessed. and if you want to give me a BE rainmaker since i'm childish, please do. i've wanted a rainmaker for ****s and giggles for a while, and think it'd be cool to watch expressions when people ask about it. have a nice day
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Old 07-22-2005, 06:05 PM #20
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Originally Posted by GoblyGoop
i don't understand why you all have to be wankers to this guy. Its simple..tell him what the shimming does and what it improves and that it won't effect his BPS. If he hears it and feels it makes him faster..then let him enjoy that.

Logically..i see his argument that the noid doesn't travel as far to activate and reset..so maybe the NOID is faster, but the gun probably doesn't shot faster if there is an induced time delay by the eyes/board and things that shutter mentioned.

In summation..don't be wankers..no one on here needs to prove anything to anyone. Just so you know..coming from the outside on this thread..everyone but Cube and DragonTES sounded like childish, my-daddy's-timmy-ownerz-you-on-the-field players who should be given brass eagles and have to earn back their real guns by acting more mature.

Name calling...very mature indeed...

Sure give me a brass eagle. I use to own a talon and stingray, I still have a tigershark.

M3frontman, good taste, I want a rainmaker too. Give me a rainmaker too, id take that off your hands in a heartbeat.
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Old 07-22-2005, 08:28 PM #21
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I'm thinking you both need talons with 20gram quick changes on the speedball field.

Yes..you can call it name calling because you guys sound like jerks. The guy obviously isn't a super gun techie so he doesn't know. You made your point and were vvery nice in the beginning of the thread, timmy owner, then you acted like he had to tell you because DragonTES was spouting out the "paintball word" as you must thought he sounded. That started about post #9. Till them..you sounded pretty normal Timmy_owner

Shutterspeed - #5 and #14 posts sound like you are just trying to be a jerk. You know you are right..people in the forum generally know you are right about the techincal points..so why sound like a jerk to the guy? He will learn more and understand more. Having people that continue to contribute useful, even if repeated, information is not bad for anyone. He doesn't have to prove that his gun shots faster cause of the mod..he's happy with it. We all know he's not correct and that his test is pretty inconclusive..but he's happy.

M3frontman - i've read many of your posts before and normally you aren't a wanker..but this is very wankerish. I don't believe either you nor shutterspeed actually designed the noids or the guns in question (unless you two are mechnical engineers..are you?). If you want to post actual stats of the noid drop speed, the mechnical cycling rate, and the cycling rate of the other components..I'd believe that you know what you are talking about and would consider you an authority on the matter. In the end..i think you know as much about paintball guns as I do..which isn't everything..but certainly isn't nothing. I'm actually an auditor..and only thing really "admissible" would be engineer documents in this case.

All i'm saying to m3front, shutter, and timmy is..tell the guy nicely..he will learn just as you have..and he'll come back and offer more to the dragun community. Insult him and be combative and he'll just find this forum and the dragun community a waste of energy.
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