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Old 06-21-2002, 11:47 AM #1
tabachoy2
 
 
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Getting another gun, narrowed it down to Shocker or Automag RT; need your input.

Here's my situation. I've started out with a Tippmann Model 98 Custom. Somone has offered to buy it, so now I am in the market for a new marker.

I'm looking to get something a little more than my Tippmann. I've pretty much narrowed it down to either a Shocker or an Automag RT Pro.

I'd appreciate any comments in regards to comparrison of both guns.

I'm interested in the Automag because I hear it's very reliable, I enjoyed that very much with my Tippman. The only negative I hear so far is that it can/will chop paint more often than other markers. However I hear the lvl10 upgrade is supposed to fix that.

I'm interested in the Shocker because I hear it is very accurate and has a flat trajectory, great for back and mid players.

I understand that choosing a marker also has to do with which positions you like to play.


I'm basically a newbie. All woodsball so far. Not enough to decide which position I like playing better. I'm striving to become a good front player, but frustration from being eliminated too early in the first couple games will usually cause me to play back more.

My local shop doesn't have any of these guns in stock for me to try out, and I rarely see these guns on the fields I play on for me to take a closer look at.

Any input is appreciated.
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Old 06-21-2002, 11:58 AM #2
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Neither gun will give a trajectory difference. Both will shoot the same speed and generally the same accuracy(except for the fact that the shocker will be more consistent because of the MaxFlo). Really, the one thing you have to consider if how comfortable you are with shooting either gun. Both guns have very different feels to them, and maybe you should get a shop or friend to let you try either.
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Old 06-21-2002, 11:58 AM #3
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You should try to try both first.

I like the automag Rt because:

1) with L10 you will never chop paint again.

2) Its MROF is about 3 times that of the shocker. Ther RT valve system can keep up with a ROF exceeding 30bps. The shocker is only physycally capable of 11.25 bps. You will never be able to max out an automag RT. You are likely to max out a shocker.

3) RT stands for reactive trigger. If you are familiar with what the response kit for a tipmann 98 does the automag RT does similar.

4) The automag is alot smaller.

5) Relaibility is top knotch there is very little that can go wrong with an automag. IF somthing happens customer service is the best in the industry.

6) AGD offers E-mag conversions where you can convert your RT pro into an e-mag for half the price of a new e-mag.

7) As far as consistency goes the RT reg in the RT is a good performer. In PB star tests. Under slow shot velocity the RT based e-mag bested 2 maxflow guns the shocker and the impulse in terms of velocity consistency. Under rapid fire it gets even better. Under rapid recharge the RT valve has been known to flatline the chrono with a proper paint to barrel match.

www.pbstar.com

The only downfall is that YOU MUST use Compressed Air. And to fully reap the benefits of the Reactive Trigger you should get an adjustable HPA system.

It is physycally proven that the automag RT and any other gun for that matter follows an identical flight path at the same velocity as a shocker or any other gun.

A shocker can be used well on co2, and is quieter.

Last edited by ButterfingersAO : 06-21-2002 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 06-21-2002, 12:12 PM #4
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id pick rt, i had a 2k1 shocker and hated it, but you have to find what you like cause its your personal opinion and nobody elses
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Old 06-21-2002, 12:16 PM #5
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First off, despite any of the hype you might have heard, NO paintball gun shoots any farther or has a flatter trajectory than any other paintball gun. The trajectory of a projectile is in direct correlation to its velocity. The only way a gun can have a flatter trajectory is by shooting faster. Low pressure, high pressure, closed bolt, open bolt, pump, semi, etc.... None of it makes the ball travel farther. Once a ball is accelerated to 300 fps and leaves the barrel, the gun ceases to have any effect on the ball.

Both the RT and the shocker are great guns. Both are fast and consistant. I have never owned a shocker so I cannot tell you how much maintainence they require but I can tell you that the RT is virtually maintanence free. Just clean it off and oil it after every day of play and occasionally check the nubbins (with the newer plastic ones, you dont even have to do that) and the reg seat (only needs to be checked when velocity starts getting inconsistant). The chopping issue will definitely be solved with the level 10 mods. But even without level 10, chopping is easy to avoid. You have to make sure that your loader can feed your gun. RTs shoot rather quickly and can easily out-shoot a 12v revvy. You might want a HALO/Warp. You also need to make sure your nubbins are good. And like I said the plastic ones dont need adjustment. Oh, and make sure you know how to shoot the gun. This is the biggest one. You have to pull the trigger all the way back and let it come all the way forward (a task made much easier by the RT's awesome trigger return system) before you pull it again. If you dont the gun will, just like a cocker, short-stroke. Then you might be cleaning a mess out of your breech. It is not hard to learn the trigger, but soooo many people dont and then call the gun a blender when it was their fault it chopped.

Like I said, both are great guns. I only have two gripes about the shocker. One is that it is huge. I dont think there is a bigger gun on the market. The other is that it is a little bit of a gas hog. Its not terrible, but it is definitly noticeable. Other than that, I have no beef with them.

You'll have to wait for someone else who knows about shockers to tell you about them. I'd say get an RT. You wont be sorry.
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Old 06-21-2002, 12:58 PM #6
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1) with L10 you will never chop paint again.

Or you can get the Shocker, and just never chop paint as it is. Low-pressure, closed bolt = no ball break bliss.


2) Its MROF is about 3 times that of the shocker. Ther RT valve system can keep up with a ROF exceeding 30bps. The shocker is only physycally capable of 11.25 bps. You will never be able to max out an automag RT. You are likely to max out a shocker.

The Automag RT is capable of shooting 23bps without shootdown. Even if you have a warp feed and a HALO, you will never come close to this. In addition, the Mag is still a semi, which means it will still be harder to achieve high rates of fire than the Shocker, which is electronic. Let's not forget that since it is a mag, you will have to spend time actually learning how to fire it properly. Also, the new Shockers (2000 and up) are capable of 14bps.

4) The automag is alot smaller.
Don't be fooled by the size, it is a very heavy gun. The new Shockers (especially the 2k2 Vert Feeds) are incredibly light.


5) Relaibility is top knotch there is very little that can go wrong with an automag. IF somthing happens customer service is the best in the industry.


I will agree to this, however, Smart Parts also has improved customer service.


7) As far as consistency goes the RT reg in the RT is a good performer. In PB star tests. Under slow shot velocity the RT based e-mag bested 2 maxflow guns the shocker and the impulse in terms of velocity consistency. Under rapid fire it gets even better. Under rapid recharge the RT valve has been known to flatline the chrono with a proper paint to barrel match.

www.pbstar.com

It should also be noted that the Impulse and Shocker used in those tests were using CO2. Max-Flo or not, both guns are at their peak performance when used with nitrogen.


It is physycally proven that the automag RT and any other gun for that matter follows an identical flight path at the same velocity as a shocker or any other gun.

The Shocker is a more stable shooting platform, and the lack of kick when compared to the RT is very noticeable. This alone will allow you to be more accurate with the Shocker.


A shocker can be used well on co2, and is quieter.

It's also easier to fire fast, and they come with the best barrel and regulator system on the market.

Go Smart Parts or go home!
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Last edited by dropkick : 06-21-2002 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 06-21-2002, 01:59 PM #7
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shockers do chop paint... mine chopped quite a few times and it WAS timed properly

actually rt's are capable of 26 w/o shootdown and with my shocker i could out shoot it easily i would be pullin the trigger faster than the gun would even fire... also the new shockers are limited to 13bps

and the rt is not that heavy... just about 3lbs, compared to the shocker with max-flo about 5lbs

if you shoulder your gun its gonna be just as accurate as anything else cause its not gonn amove that much which the mag doesnt and with level 10 it just wont...

yeah shockers do work well with co2 but they really arent that quiet and although the max-flo is a great regulator system i didnt care for it as much as other regualtor systems...

im not sayin shockers are bad but i personally would shoot an rt over a shocker... its up to him to make his decision
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Old 06-21-2002, 02:47 PM #8
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Drop.

Alot of people misinterpret the "without shootdown" phrase. This means the gun will fire 26 bps without loosing ANY velocity.

The gun is capable of rates of fire well into the 30's with slight velocity dropoff.

The reason why we don't see other manufacturers quote numbers "without shootdown" is because most other guns begin to get detectable shootdown in the single digits. Thus they quote MROF.

The shockers are capped at 14 BPS but the solnoids can still only go 11.25. Its like having a timmy board at 66 bps when the gun is only capable of cycling 1/3 of that. The only advnatage is having a shorter split time and thus better trigger resolution other than that its a Marketing ploy....

Shooting a shocker vs. shooting an RT. If you have ever felt an RT "rip" i can tell you its pretty easy to get a 15+ bps string.

Last edited by ButterfingersAO : 06-21-2002 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 06-22-2002, 05:12 PM #9
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Shockers are a lot better,
I have seen both marker on the field at the same time, and the shocker out performed Automag RT Pro.

It makes no difference what your ROF is if you have no accuracy, then the only thing you can do is scare the people to stay behind the bunker.

The only way a shocker will chop is if you have your timing off.


If you are interested in a sweet shocker setup, take a look:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=100513
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Old 06-22-2002, 05:36 PM #10
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dont listen to him he's just tryin to sell his gun...
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Old 06-22-2002, 05:36 PM #11
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dont listen to him he's just tryin to sell his gun...
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Old 06-22-2002, 06:36 PM #12
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umm no gun will have any accuracy advantage over another as long as you have consistant velocity and a good paint to bore match.

and as for rof, i have personally seen an rt rip 16 bps. with a hyperframe i have seen 18.

both are excellent guns and the only way of knowing which one you want is to try them out. i know thats not what you want to hear but its the truth

sorry
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Old 06-22-2002, 06:58 PM #13
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Shockers defenetly can break paint. Automag wiht a level 10 mod can not even cripple a dollar bill. Just today at the field, i was fooling around with a walkons Shocker and i choped and the paint got all inside the Warp Feed breech. And BTW, it wasn't a crap *** Shocker, it was this one http://www.robagd.com/shocker/index.html .

IMO, u should really look into the Automag RT and invest in a level 10 mod if it dosn't come with one already when u purchase it. You can get smilar ROF and of course... Automags are the most reliable guns.
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Old 06-22-2002, 08:47 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by #1P8ntballer
umm no gun will have any accuracy advantage over another as long as you
Your dumb You mean no gun has more range than the other.

like i have said millions of times , range is determined by fps (velocity) Accuracy is determined by MANY factors including:

Consistency
Propper Paint to Bore match
low kick
Nice shoulder (with a gun with a good amount of kick its needed)
Your AIM
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Old 06-23-2002, 09:08 AM #15
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Hey kAmAkAzEe even if my marker was not for sale, I still stand by what I said. Why don't you get the facts before you try to sound Intelligent.
SHOCKERS ARE BETTER MARKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The ONLY way a shocker will chop paint is if the timing is not the same as your finger. The Shocker timming is set for 10.25 BPS and your finger is pulling 11.65 BPS you will chop paint and that is the only way paint will get chopped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes certain markers have more accuracy then others,
I was visiting a PB field last weekend and there was a guy who had a sto cocker on HPA and we stood side-by-side, shooting about 40yds out at two targets the same size. My patteren was smaller and it was in the center of the target, My marker was more accurate. We had the same paint (midnight) same barrel (boomstick). He was on HPA and I was on Co2.


Range is also determined by trajectory (flatter the trajectory
further the paintball travels.)

Last edited by meanfishy : 06-23-2002 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 06-23-2002, 10:35 AM #16
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Meanfishy you are a dumbf***.

Shockers are not better markers, RT's are not better markers, its all in what you prefer. Some people say pumps are better markers, thats because its what they prefer and think you should prefer it too.

And yes shockers do chop paint, you said it your self, for people who can shoot over 10.25bps, I guess they will chop a lot of paint. This is corrected, i guess in newer shockers though.

And, sometimes what appear to you like a tighter group, might not to some other people. plus how do we know you are telling the truth? you could be just laying down some bull ****.


Plus, if you had higher intelligence, you would no that there is no such thing as a "flatter" trajectory. There is no such thing of one gun having more range than another. All guns shoot the same distance. The only reason that shockers appear to shoot "flatter" is because they are taller.
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Now, I would say RT, but if you save up about $100-$200 more you could get a used Emag and would have the best of both worlds of electronic and mechanical guns. The emag can shoot in manual or electronic, both have good pulls. And with lvl 10 you will never chop another ball again. Again, all mags are smaller, RT's are fast, and that is my opinion.
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Old 06-23-2002, 12:07 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by meanfishy
Range is also determined by trajectory (flatter the trajectory
further the paintball travels.)

And about this whole trajectory thing..... Yes, Range is determined by trajectory. Good call. But you didnt mention the little thing that controls the trajectory; That little thing is called velocity. The higher the velocity, the flatter the trajectory to the target, and therefore, more range.
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Old 06-23-2002, 12:24 PM #18
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Originally posted by meanfishy
Hey kAmAkAzEe even if my marker was not for sale, I still stand by what I said. Why don't you get the facts before you try to sound Intelligent.
SHOCKERS ARE BETTER MARKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just owned a 2k1 shocker no more than a month ago and it was no where near my mag... i know my facts, i think its time for you to learn yours

The ONLY way a shocker will chop paint is if the timing is not the same as your finger. The Shocker timming is set for 10.25 BPS and your finger is pulling 11.65 BPS you will chop paint and that is the only way paint will get chopped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i had it timed by a tech and it shot perfect but it was too slow and they do chop

Yes certain markers have more accuracy then others,
I was visiting a PB field last weekend and there was a guy who had a sto cocker on HPA and we stood side-by-side, shooting about 40yds out at two targets the same size. My patteren was smaller and it was in the center of the target, My marker was more accurate. We had the same paint (midnight) same barrel (boomstick). He was on HPA and I was on Co2.

Nope NO gun shoots more accurately than another with similar conditions... [b]


Quote:
[i]Originally posted by Killer Badger[i]
Meanfishy you are a dumbf***.
i second that

Last edited by kAmAkAzEe : 06-23-2002 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 06-23-2002, 04:04 PM #19
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Hey Badger boy, before you try to explain why a marker chops paint you better understand the marker and how it works.

A shocker is an ELECTRONIC marker, meaning you can adjust the trigger pull and how fast the solenoids cycle. So if you finger pulls the trigger at 11.56 BPS, you adjust the solenoids timing so it cycles at 11.56 BPS. ONCE AGAIN THE ONLY WAY THAT A SHOCKER WIL CHOP PAINT IS IF THE SOLENOIDS TIMING IS CYCLEING SLOWER THAN YOUR FINGER IS PULING THE TRIGGER.

Originally posted by kAmAkAzEe
Quote:
i had it timed by a tech and it shot perfect but it was too slow and they do chop
Thank you for proving my point. If your timing is off then you will chop paint and that the ONLY WAY!!!!!!!!!

I AM SO PROUD THAT A COUPLE OF ZIT POPPERS HAVE DECIDED TO PERFORM A LAME ATTEMPT OF FLAMING ME. LMAO LMAO LMAO

Last edited by meanfishy : 06-23-2002 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 06-23-2002, 04:08 PM #20
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i thought it was screwed up cause it was slow and did chop so i had a tech time it so it could shoot better and maybe a bit faster and it could still chop paint... shockers are SLOW and CAN chop paint when timed correctly! i know it was timed correctley from reading on how to time it... i just didnt think at the time i was capable of doing it, i didnt want to mess up the settings any more, but it turned out he said it was already just about right

Last edited by kAmAkAzEe : 06-23-2002 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 06-23-2002, 10:19 PM #21
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I think you should invest your money into the RT PRO, it is a very well made marker that can shoot with the best of em. I love the looks of the RT PRO, and personally i like the fact that it is mechanical. That is also why i respect the emag so much, its that you can shoot the marker without a battery. I personally like the trigger on the RT PRO, the kick back is just neat to learn to master. I am looking for one myself as a step up from my minimag, and i suggest that you look for one too, even though, it is your choice... not mine....
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