Thinking of trading for a Ariakon, help me out.

rodel_arinas · 09-06-2004, 07:11 PM

I'm seriously considering trading my Tippmann A-5 w/ E-grip with an Ariakon marker. I never had any problems with my A-5, but being in the military, I always want to have a MILSIM marker. The question is, is it worth it to trade with an Ariakon, how does your markers treating you. Thanks for the input.

Robotech · 09-08-2004, 11:03 PM

Well, since no one here has replied yet. So far I like my Ariakon marker. I've only had it for less than a week but already can see the potential. I have the SIM-5 which would be comprable to the A-5 in looks. I also have a WS-66 which is more of the M-4 look like the SIM-4. Either way, they are great markers and most users just love theirs.

Xnuke · 09-19-2004, 05:53 AM

Keep your Tippmann, especially if you are considering an electronic trigger frame.
https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=648199

Vlar · 09-19-2004, 06:44 PM

I have a Sim-5 and it is the best marker I have ever shot. My good friend WarHamster has a Sim-4 and the two perform nearly identical.

If you go over to the Ariakon forum, one of our members did a comparison study between a Tippmann A-5, a Tippmann 98 custom, and an Ariakon Sim-4. You should take a look at it so you can see some of the derformances differences between a Sim-4 and what you are used to.

They are very durable markers to be sure! I play hard with mine and it never skips a beat!

THE KAMKA · 09-19-2004, 09:12 PM

definately go with a SIM-4 or WG65 or SIM 5 or WS 66...all these markers are outstanding...and they achieve this outstanding status while still being stock, straight out of the package....in order to meet the performance of these markers you need to pump alot of money into a tippy...

Xnuke · 09-19-2004, 09:53 PM

If the comparison study is on accuracy then it's not a valid study. They compared the Flatline barrel with the SIM-4 stock barrel. They were pretty well evenly matched. Problem is they only tested to 75 feet. The flatlines strength comes from the extra 100 feet of flat trajectory beyond that.
My recommendation is based on the Electronic trigger. If you put one on the A5 it's only logical to assume you may want one for the SIM4.
It's my opinion but you're not gaining anything by going to the SIM4 from the A5. The A5 performs nearly as well in modest distances but is generally more reliable. The electronic frame is definitely something you want to avoid until they've corrected the problems we've seen.

Vlar · 09-19-2004, 10:04 PM

Indeed he tested only out to 75 feet, but that is the longest most engagements in paintball occur. If you are looking for a lot of usage beyond that point, then you would have to test beyone that point, but the guide was made to give people a general idea of how the two perform side by side in average conditions.

As a matter of fact, there is something to gain from getting a Sim-4.
*The feeding system on the A-5 uses more air while the Sim-4 doesn't have this feature. If you are looking to shoot a lot, then you should look into an electric hopper for the Sim-4.
*Also, the Sim-4 already looks like more like an M4 while you would have to spend a lot on upgrades to make an A-5 look like that.
*If you is looking at mil-sim markers then that is definetly something to consider.
*The Sim-4 is ready to take many M4 and M16 upgrades, and can take even more with the purchase of rails for the barrel.
*The customer service from Ariakon is excelent. While I am sure Xnuke would disagree due to his own personal problems with the service he recieved as a dealer, I have never heard of a single complaint about their customer service.

If you are serious about getting a Sim-4, you should come to the official Ariakon forum and speak with several of us there. We can answer any questions you may have. Many people on there also have Tippmanns and can go into more depth into the differences you can expect. I hope to see you there!

Robotech · 09-19-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xnuke
If the comparison study is on accuracy then it's not a valid study. They compared the Flatline barrel with the SIM-4 stock barrel. They were pretty well evenly matched. Problem is they only tested to 75 feet. The flatlines strength comes from the extra 100 feet of flat trajectory beyond that.

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm just not quite understanding this but...what does how far something shoots have anything to do with how well it hits its target? If the comparison study is on Accuracy then it matters how accurate the marker is, not how far it shoots.

From the few studies in accuracy out there, the SIM-4 is marginally more accurate than a Flatline Equipped A-5.

As for him not getting anything by going to a SIM, I do believe he mentioned that it was due to his military experiance that he was interested in a SIM. Regardless of what you do to an A-5, you will not be able to acheive the replication of the real deal that a SIM achieves.

Armorer · 09-21-2004, 04:45 PM

Christ you're an idiot, EX-nuke.
Seriously, an additional hundred feet does what to prove accuracy... not distance. Thank god the navy stepped up intelligence standards.

Rodel,
Sorry to hear about your problems. My own A-5 has been a cross to bear. Otherwise, my SIM-4 has performed beautifully and with no problems.

Xnuke · 09-22-2004, 11:05 AM

Rodel said he didn't have any problems with his A5. Where did that come from?

The whole idea of the Flatline was to add additional range (and maybe accuracy) by keeping the trajectory flat. Comparing the 2 side by side out only to 75 feet where a lot of drop doesn't occur doesn't demonstrate the capabilities of the 98 or A5 with the Flatline. Challenge the SIM by testing out to 150-200 feet.

Armorer · 09-22-2004, 05:12 PM

Well now Xnuke, ya finally got me there. Wow, I missed the "never." I should just throw in the hat...Nah...

Rodel, I'm sorry I misread your statement. Summarily though, I encountered skipping problems with not one, but three A-5's. This isn't something I lay to blame on Tippmann, they sent me new cyclones and helped every chance they got, but it put a bad taste in my mouth. Again, this isn't against Tippmann, I love my tippy 98C.
http://forum.ariakon.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1797&PN=1
here's the thread that everyone's refering to...and never mind Xnuke. He's a BE lover.

Robotech · 09-22-2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xnuke
Comparing the 2 side by side out only to 75 feet where a lot of drop doesn't occur doesn't demonstrate the capabilities of the 98 or A5 with the Flatline. Challenge the SIM by testing out to 150-200 feet.

No, but it does demonstrate the accuracy of these two markers with perhaps the most popular barrel upgrade for said markers against the SIM-4 at ranges where the vast majority of paintball shootouts occure...which was the point of the article. Of course the Flatlines will be more accurate against the SIM at ranges of 150-200 feet...but very rarely do you get those kinds of shots.

Armorer · 09-22-2004, 06:05 PM

Wait a second...ya know the first time I wrote that range thread I remember a particular dick telling me it was ludicrous to expect a marker to have any some great level of accuracy beyond 120 feet, but less 50 yards...
Tippmann Lapdog.

Xnuke · 09-22-2004, 10:40 PM

Exactly, that's why the test with the Tippmann's should have been with stock barrels. You could have run another test to see the increased range (and accuracy) with the Flatline against the stock SIM4 to challange the claims of Ariakon and Armotech owners who claim they get the same performance as the Flatline at longer ranges.
I expect the standard barrels are quite innacurate at 150-200 feet and would probably have paint hitting the ground well before the target at those ranges (if held level). The Flatlines should still be able to hit a target at that range even holding the gun level.

Robotech · 09-23-2004, 05:21 PM

But...the idea of the test was to show that a SIM-4 is on par or better than a more modified Tippman.

Question, if shooting at closer distances are Flatline equipped Tippmanns LESS accurate than when they are shooting at longer ranges? In other words, dose the accuracy of the Flatline improve with distance?

If not, then this stands as a valid test since the difference in accuracy will not be due to the unique backspin of the Flatline but rather the overall accuracy of the barrel.

Now, to prove or disprove the issue of a SIM-4 being able to compete with a Flatline at long distnaces the markers would need to have compensation induced in the test to be able to hit the target at that range. This way, you're testing that if the marker is aimed at that target, how accurate is it? If you aimed them all flat, it looks as though all of these markers would be WAY low. At the ranges Armorer tested, the markers were held flat in order to see how much drop you would receive over a given distance. If you look at the test again you're going to see that the A-5 flatline dropped off MORE at 75 feet than the SIM-4 did. Thus, if you extend that test out, the A-5 Flatline's shots should be hitting the ground before the SIM-4's.

Armorer · 09-23-2004, 09:17 PM

Way to go Xnuke! Well shown to IGNORE the material. Stop being an ostrich, your lower colon wasn't meant for you head.

Read my post Nuke-- it's not a stock barrel, it's a 19.5" barrel. Try reading my stuff before you undermine it. Oh, and btw, you'll note that there's more than one tippy owner here that'll back up the fact that an A-5 Flatline operates best at a completely different FPS than a 98C in the Southeastern U.S. (important for air density, sea-level, etc). So don't bother trying to drag up the "they need to be the same FPS" jazz.

Xnuke · 09-23-2004, 10:07 PM

This shows how little you really know. You can put a 19.5" barrel, a 21 " barrel or a 40" barrel on a paintball gun and it won't improve accuracy over a 14" barrel. It will do nothing for range if they are fired at the same velocity. Range for real guns only improves marginally more with longer barrels beyond a certain length.
Robotech says:
"Thus, if you extend that test out, the A-5 Flatline's shots should be hitting the ground before the SIM-4's."

The Flatline is meant to delay the drop on the paintball and by design you would not see the drop you are saying will occur. This is where the test would have been more effective. Shoot the Flatline against the Sim, at 150-180 feet, with and without compensation for drop and show us the results. I'd expect the SIM would hit the ground long before the A5 with Flatline and the accuracy will suffer because you would have to elevate it too much to try and hit the target. If the Flatline doesn't do what it says it can do you can go to Tippmann and tell them they're fos and confirm the claims of some people that they can outshoot a Flatline at these distances

If you think it's meaningless to test beyond 75' because it's an absurdly long range the what will you say about anyone trying to market a "Sniper" rifle.

Armorer · 09-23-2004, 10:28 PM

I'd say you're still ignorant. By increasing my FPS higher than what the actual break on the ball is. Meaning about the first third i've already lost a fair margin of FPS and will continue to do so until it exits. At which point (around 6 inches from the muzzle, it's only hitting about 285-290.
Oh, would you care for my ballistics thread again? Last time I check, my job was working on firearms, yours was swabbing decks. When you refer to firearms, you're referring to a projectile pushed by an expanding, burning fuel. PB's are driven by a dose of gas that expands behind it. Now this isn't as effective as in real firearms due to drag, as a matter of fact, pb is more like shotgunning rather than riflemanship.
Best part is, you're making me post this only confirms for other readers your beligerence towards me and ariakon.
http://forum.ariakon.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=900&PN=1

Now that you've sufficiently pushed this off topic, I'm sorry only the rodel has had to listen to your mindless dickering. As wiseman say:
"Best not to argue with Idiot...bystanders may not understand who is who."

As to the sniper marker question:
Results count. I count my SIM-4 to be sniper worthy. My 75' distance was merely for the younger players looking for a quick, easy answer on the recommendation of field owners and veteran players.

Robotech · 09-24-2004, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xnuke

"Thus, if you extend that test out, the A-5 Flatline's shots should be hitting the ground before the SIM-4's."

The Flatline is meant to delay the drop on the paintball and by design you would not see the drop you are saying will occur. This is where the test would have been more effective. Shoot the Flatline against the Sim, at 150-180 feet, with and without compensation for drop and show us the results. I'd expect the SIM would hit the ground long before the A5 with Flatline and the accuracy will suffer because you would have to elevate it too much to try and hit the target. If the Flatline doesn't do what it says it can do you can go to Tippmann and tell them they're fos and confirm the claims of some people that they can outshoot a Flatline at these distances

If you think it's meaningless to test beyond 75' because it's an absurdly long range the what will you say about anyone trying to market a "Sniper" rifle.

But if you look at the test that's not what we're seeing. The ball is already starting to drop at 75 feet. Not only that, it is dropping at roughly the same rate as the SIM. (this is on the A-5, not the 98). Lastly, it is all a matter of conjecture at this point since the test hasn't been done but from what is there, I'm seeing the ball already dropping at 75 feet.

I didn't say that 75' was absudly long range...Look what I've written again:

"...at ranges where the vast majority of paintball shootouts occure..."

I didn't say it was meaningless to test at that range, what I said is for the sake of that comparison it wasn't necessary. Now, if you are doing a "sniper" rifle comparison then the test SHOULD be how well the marker can fire at ALL distances. That's not what that test was.

As for the Sniper comment, I think companies trying to market "Sniper Rifles" are silly, with one exception, the Scepter Windrunner. HOWEVER, the ONLY reason why I say that is the exception has nothing to do with accuracy or range, but rather when it is released, it will be a replica of a REAL sniper rifle. It isn't that I don't believe you cannot have "Snipers" in paintball...but it is based on the fact that there is no one marker better for "sniping" than another. Being a "sniper" in paintball isn't about what you carry, but how you use it.

For anyone reading this other than us...if you think you shoot at ranges far greater than 75 feet on a very regular basis, then please feel free to ignore the range information. Otherwise, for those of you that fire at ranges at or under 75 feet...there is your comparison as it stands.

Xnuke, you can say and hypothosis as much as you wish. Tear apart the test as much as you want. It really doesn't matter. The reason being is that at least HE tried to give these guys some CONCRETE comparisons between the markers. Where's your experiment and test results? Here's a suggestion...since this is such a problem and so flawed...instead of telling him how bad it is why don't you do YOUR OWN test and PROVE him wrong...you know, like an ACTUAL Scientific community would do. After all, with experiments, scientists don't just tell their colleges that their results are flawed because they don't agree with what they were trying to acheive...they do it by running their own experiments and putting up their own data. They do it be redoing the experiment and seeing what results they come up with. So, you run your experiment and get back to us with your data and I'll listen to what you have to say then.

Until such time, S2 and just drop it because all we're doing now is going round and round in circles going NOWHERE.

Xnuke · 09-24-2004, 08:12 AM

Why don't you get a real job. Your a professional student masquerading as someone who thinks they know something about firearms and ballistics. The only expanding gas around here is from your *** and your buddy has his head in the cloud.
This would be amusing were it not for the fact that there are a lot of people out there who believe what you say. They don't realize your just repeating information you find somewhere else and sometimes don't even get that right. YOU ARMORER ARE A FRAUD.
Your comparison with the Tippmann did not challenge the performance of the Flatline. How convenient; the results are comparable at 75 '. They WOULD be for any paintball gun with a decent barrel. You're the one doing the comparisons. Test the SIM4 against the Flatline and confirm the performance it was supposed to give you.
Robotech admits Sniper rifles are silly except one being made by Scepter. So, buy it for looks , not performance. I'll remember that.
Just for info I was a comissioned officer and didn't swab decks. We had people who couldn't find themselves, like Armorer, doing that.
DISMISSED

Vlar · 09-24-2004, 08:29 AM

The test was made using the most controlled variables abailable. The uncontrollable variables were chosen to most closly resemble a normal day of play, such as weather, paintball quality, C02 depletion, etc.

The Tippmann, like almost every marker on the market, does not come stock with a high quality barrel. One of the most common barrels in use by Tippmann players is the flatline. The Sim-4 ships with a high quality barrel and does not require a barrel upgrade for better performance.

The testing distances were chosed based on common engagement distances and broken into intervals within those distances. The test was then performed at those distances and the results recorded.

The results of all of the tests were publisted on the Ariakon for anyone who wanted to see someone's comparison. We aren't trying to cram the tests down anyone's throats. His test is there for anyone to see if they want to. If you don't like the test, then don't, but don't try and cram your feelings on it down anyone else's throats.

rodel_arinas, I'm sorry that the thread has gone so far off topic. We have had issues like this with Xnuke on other forums. The decision is yours. If you would like more information on the Sim-4, you are invited to join us on the Ariakon forum at http://forum.ariakon.com . Again, I'm sorry for the thread going so far off topic.