[Thunderstick]

If you were a team that decided that you wouldn't come back because there was a team that you thought unfairly dominated you......you probably don't belong on the paintball field anyways.

[evenpar]

Originally Posted by Thunderstick

If you were a team that decided that you wouldn't come back because there was a team that you thought unfairly dominated you......you probably don't belong on the paintball field anyways.

well said!
KP

[shaggy freak]

i like having 2 accounts...
so why dont you guys just stop bein dumb(since i cant call you a the "B" word)

[James Graley]

If we moved up would you transfer 100% of our points? I think people would complain just as much though then because if we do it will allow me to pick up 2 D2 players that I played on All Americans with in 03 and they went on the play NXL (Miami Effect which never won 1 match in NXL i think) and are now D2 from retiring so long ago. I'm afraid it is never ending situtation. However, if we can keep our series points I'll talk to everyone about doing it midseason. With our old points and our new D4 points most of us will be D3 or D2 next season and we would be forced to move up then so the system does as well as it can (its impossible to find a perfect solution).

That being said, I agree 100% with what Chris said and I am one of the people that petitioned Chris for about 2 years to come up with some sort of fix to the system for the older guys who don't want to practice and play all the time anymore.

Thanks for the support from those who supported. Like I said, we just want to have fun and I don't want any teams to not come back that played the 1st or 2nd event (if that is in fact true, its unfortunate). We don't want to be "unwelcome" so let me know on the points transfer.

[Tapper]

After sleeping on this I want to make it clear Adrenaline has done nothing wrong by the rules and system in place.

I will stand behind you and your decision wich ever way you choose to go D-3 or D-4.

Raehl is correct on most accounts but a line needs to be drawn that a player can not go back past in ranking. That line was supposed to be D-3. The system obviously is not set up for that but we will get it figured out.

[Tapper]

Originally Posted by evenpar

well said!
KP

Originally Posted by Thunderstick

If you were a team that decided that you wouldn't come back because there was a team that you thought unfairly dominated you......you probably don't belong on the paintball field anyways.

Gentlemen I could not disagree more. I appreciate your support but we are trying to grow paintball it is critical that we have an entry level division.

[PUNITPAINTBALL]

Tapper, are you going to allow the points transfer from d4 to d3.

[AJUprising]

This has been an interesting and insightful thread. I was even going to avoid posting, but I couldn't hold my tongue (no surprise there). While I agree that there are flaws to the classification system, I think that the current calculation is about as fair a shake as you can find. Much better than the historical method of the honor system because let's face it, there just really isn't that much honesty in the sport as a whole.

I can definitely see James' point regarding allowing retired players to come back and play at a lower level after significant layoffs. That is not only fair, but also encourages people to continue at least limited participation in the sport. Hell half of our team hadn't played competitive paintball since '05-'06. I was honestly amazed to see that several of us were ranked D4 when we came back. We chose to play D3 (MSXL) and Open SEPS even though we qualified for D4 in both just from personal preference.

I remember when the guys were playing with Red Legion and even watched at an event and sure, they weren't the "primary" players and sure they did not perform so well. But you don't make a team like that without some talent. And sure it was a while back, but was it long enough ago to come back at D4? Well according to the factors and parameters set forth in the classification system it is, but can it be logically justified? I guess that is for each person to determine on their own. I can honestly say that if I had several individuals on my team that played D1 ball, several NPPLs with teams like All Americans, VL All Stars, etc. I would have a hard time justifying it personally, but to each their own as long as its within the realm of the established rules and league framework. I will say that I like the Adrenaline guys a lot and have actually played with and against people like Bailey, Ricky and Hollywood for a long time. You would be hard pressed to find more chill, laid back guys in the sport. So let's not be douche bags about it, just make your point and move on.

[Tapper]

Very well said.

[Tapper]

Originally Posted by PUNITPAINTBALL

Tapper, are you going to allow the points transfer from d4 to d3.

Working on it. Graley that would be the honorable thing to do and shows a lot of class. If this is the direction your team decides to go I will find a way to make it happen. If not no problem you are within the guidelines we signed up for.

[IVIUTINY]

Originally Posted by James Graley

I don't think anyone played D2. We have a couple kids and the rest aren't old D1 guys either.

They are very very very old D1 guys, most with kids.

I can't tell if you are just agreeing, joking or complaining that we are sandbagging but I do think the change in rankings for APPA now permits the pitting of lower ranked up-and-coming players on the rise (who may be D2, D1, or even pro one day) vs. the lower ranked old-school has-been players on the way down the ladder. In my opinion, its a nice way to have a blend of experience in an event. Old farts (some who played semi-pro or pro a decade ago) but who couldn't run a 40 yarder in 8 seconds if they stripped naked vs. newer less experienced fast guys who can still dive without having to go to the Dr. monday morning.

I do think there are a lot of good teams in this series though. Most events we have a 4 guys (split between 2 lines) that was 4 outta 5 of a Russian Legion D1 lineup playing agaist X-Factor, Aftermath, etc. only 5 years ago (Bailey, the final american, will hopefully sack-up and join us next event we play to have a full 5 outta 5) yet we've had our butts handed to us this year in plenty of points. Some of our guys hadn't played since 2002 or 2004 but we all decided to go out and start having fun again.
If we've ticked off anyone at the last event we apologize, we promised at the beginning of the last year when we decided to "come back" not to take paintball too serious anymore and we let our frustration get to us at Plex and we ended up taking it very seriously toward the end. Sorry to blow our tops at the refs, we were just taking up for ourselves as, in my opinion, every team should do and as we would most likely do for any team if we saw such things happening (like we did for YJP in one case).
Anyway it sounds like the reffing issue is lined out for the rest of the year and the entered-team list is big again so we can all go back to having fun and not letting things get too serious.

Anyway, to place my picks, I pick:
D4 - 120 (if last event was your first X-ball event ever you guys are gonna kick butt soon enough, either this event or the next)
D3 - I have no clue who is who so I'll just pick CHF since its their hood.

yes that was our first xball event hell most our field we practice on is crates due to paintball not being big in central AR

[coolrazer]

My first ever legit tournament team I played on played D5 5man in the SCPFOA which was a feeder series for CFOA. My team was hands down one of the best two teams that competed, but we usually lost to the same team in the finals each event. After the second event, we figured out that one of their players had played D1 or D2 the year before and was a major reason they kept beating us. My team was comprised of people from age 16 to age 30, and continuously kept trying to get that team disqualified or bumped to a higher division so that we could win the series easily. Towards the end of the season we figured out that if we spent the same time and energy practicing to beat that team that we did complaining to league officials about classification, we'd have a better chance of winning. We did this, and towards the end of the year we were continuously beating them. However, at that point it was too late and we ended up finishing second in the series. This happened back when APPA let series have separate classifications.

My point is this, good competition breeds success. If your consistently getting beat by a team, who may or may not be flirting with the boundaries of what's legal and what's not, spend your time improving your game and beat them straight up rather than complaining about a loophole in classification that will not change by series end. Take responsibility for your team's weaknesses that better teams are capitalizing on and improve in those areas. Complaining about people that played D1 four years ago isn't going to help your team. At the end of the day, they're still going to be on the opposite side of the field from you, so prepare your team to beat them straight up instead of complaining on the internet.

[James Graley]

Yes Tapper we are strongly considering it. I've already started asking everyone so see if its possible. The only resistence I'm getting so far is that people like playing on Saturday so we can moan and be sore on an off-work day but we're still discussing it. Also Tapper, can you please confirm how many event points will count in the series. I've been told that because your event counts double, that if you want to count that event you can essentially drop 2 other events or if you drop that event it is the only event you can drop (since again its double).
Thanks for the post AJ, if we move to D3 we will bring back Nick as well from my Adrenaline and All American days who I think played a tournament or two with you back in the day. If that is the case, luckily he will be there a different day than Adrenaline Factory's coach We hope to bring back Jacob and Caleb too.

[AJUprising]

Originally Posted by James Graley

Yes Tapper we are strongly considering it. I've already started asking everyone so see if its possible. The only resistence I'm getting so far is that people like playing on Saturday so we can moan and be sore on an off-work day but we're still discussing it. Also Tapper, can you please confirm how many event points will count in the series. I've been told that because your event counts double, that if you want to count that event you can essentially drop 2 other events or if you drop that event it is the only event you can drop (since again its double).
Thanks for the post AJ, if we move to D3 we will bring back Nick as well from my Adrenaline and All American days who I think played a tournament or two with you back in the day. If that is the case, luckily he will be there a different day than Adrenaline Factory's coach We hope to bring back Jacob and Caleb too.

Yeah I actually called Nick and Caleb a while back to play a tournament, but it was during Caleb's wedding prep so the $$$ was a little short. Nick played all the NPPLs with us back in the day, as well as the MSPAs after the split from Robin. It would be great seeing all those guys back out there for sure.

As for the bolded part above that is DEFINITELY a good thing haha!

[IVIUTINY]

Adrenaline is a legit team I enjoyed playing against them even in d4. Even if they woulda torn us a new one I walked off the field with some great exp

[shag1]

i just like causing controversy dnt take half the **** i say serious

[npaulsen05]

Originally Posted by Thunderstick

If you were a team that decided that you wouldn't come back because there was a team that you thought unfairly dominated you......you probably don't belong on the paintball field anyways.

or you should just find a way to get on the team that is always dominating...

[Thunderstick]

D4 is entry level RACE 2 format, not entry level paintball. Most teams at the events have played a while, and I have yet to see a team cruising the fields with their Tippmans doing work. That would be D5.

Any way you slice it, teams get to make the choice where they play. Our team could have remained in D4 after last season and continued to earn D4 points at events but that isn't what we wanted as a team. SOME teams did just that. Played last year in D4 and stayed in D4 this year. Now we want to criticize another team because they are trying to get back in the grind....

It also appears that some of the teams that are no longer coming to the events had issues with the events, not the teams or the rosters.

What we have is a very affordable series with some of the best competition around. I would suggest teams focus on what they can do to get better, the league make the appropriate changes, and we encourage other teams to come out and continue to grow the sport. Again, I have no respect for the teams that refuse to play because of someones roster. I think the SEPS has a D5 bracket that was made for them.

[Tapper]

My only argument to that is that a line needs to be drawn as to how far back a players ranking should be able to drop once they play at a higher level.

Does anyone see a problem with PSP the affiliate and support leagues not allowing players to be reduced to a rank lower than D-3 once they reach that level and beyond? We originally agreed to this but it did not happen this year.

I have seen players win Open tourneys and ranked beginner by the system who have played 6-8 years. Active D-1 and a former Pro NPPL competitive players re-classed D-4. Also this year 5-man, Race to 2 or 4 get the same points for classification, doesn't matter if it's a local event or a National.

Don't get me wrong we are on the right track but just like the MSXL needs constant refinement so does the system we all play under.

D-4 race to 4 should be kept an entry level division period. My argument is if you move up out of D-4 no going back.

[PUNITPAINTBALL]

Im not trying to argue with anyone but the APPA sets the standard nationally, can you blame someone for a rank they were given?

[shag1]

Originally Posted by Tapper

My only argument to that is that a line needs to be drawn as to how far back a players ranking should be able to drop once they play at a higher level.

Does anyone see a problem with PSP the affiliate and support leagues not allowing players to be reduced to a rank lower than D-3 once they reach that level and beyond? We originally agreed to this but it did not happen this year.

I have seen players win Open tourneys and ranked beginner by the system who have played 6-8 years. Active D-1 and a former Pro NPPL competitive players re-classed D-4. Also this year 5-man, Race to 2 or 4 get the same points for classification, doesn't matter if it's a local event or a National.

Don't get me wrong we are on the right track but just like the MSXL needs constant refinement so does the system we all play under.

D-4 race to 4 should be kept an entry level division period. My argument is if you move up out of D-4 no going back.

now we wouldnt be talkin about those crackas bob saget now would we cause i swear we mowed down in open and we were ranked d4 or 5 but its ok cause were not 30 and we talk ****...

Originally Posted by Thunderstick

D4 is entry level RACE 2 format, not entry level paintball. Most teams at the events have played a while, and I have yet to see a team cruising the fields with their Tippmans doing work. That would be D5.

Any way you slice it, teams get to make the choice where they play. Our team could have remained in D4 after last season and continued to earn D4 points at events but that isn't what we wanted as a team. SOME teams did just that. Played last year in D4 and stayed in D4 this year. Now we want to criticize another team because they are trying to get back in the grind....

It also appears that some of the teams that are no longer coming to the events had issues with the events, not the teams or the rosters.

What we have is a very affordable series with some of the best competition around. I would suggest teams focus on what they can do to get better, the league make the appropriate changes, and we encourage other teams to come out and continue to grow the sport. Again, I have no respect for the teams that refuse to play because of someones roster. I think the SEPS has a D5 bracket that was made for them.

are you speakin of bob saget also cause we the players feel that the new system is great/a crock but we still run this ****