Stacked Tube Viking

ShadowGuy · 07-09-2008, 10:06 AM

I have edited this first post to help those that find this thread.
We are building up differing versions of the Evil-M, a stacked tube version of the Viking that was never released by AKALMP.
Here are the current bits of important information if you want to follow along/mimic.

Body
Original Evil-M can be purchased from Destructive Customs or Logic Paintball. $200+
or
You can use a Merlin extrusion purchased from AirSoldierProducts.
$11.50

Ram/Valve/Hammer/Bolt/Screws
Can be pulled from a 2004 Viking
or
Purchased new from AKALMP

Solenoid
Humphrey HEA10A5-GL-101W
Purchased from AirSoldierProducts, comes with gasket.
$56

Trigger Frame
Will have to be built or modified from an existing frame.
Distance between screw holes is 5.25.
Known working frames are
G2 Frame by Blue Fork
Will have to have front screw hole extended and back hole opened slightly.

2006 Cyborg Frame
???

Detents/Eye Wires
Quad Detent kit from 2004 Viking, can be purchased from AKALMP or Destructive Customs.

LPR
Currently unavailable, but modifying similar designs are possible.

Vertical Adapter
Can be pulled from 2006 Cyborg, or autocockers using a layout of 3 holes with center screwed in.

Barrel is autococker threading, and feedneck is AKALMP/MacDev threading.

CAD Files (SpitleBug)
http://nickguyver.com/free/Evil_M_Rev.0.zip

thatdoolinkid · 07-09-2008, 10:34 AM

Might I add a few suggestions? This design will work and amazingly well, since it uses all high-quality AKA parts. However, I suggest you change a few things. First off, use a borg LPR or something similar. The AKA one is just too wasteful of space IMO.

Next, don't use a tray. Instead, use a small 4-way noid housed in the grip frame, like a MAC 43 series. They'll fit in the stock AKA frame with a little modification. Actually, you can mill out a little on the underside of the merlin extrusion (it's over .25 thick down there) to make more room for the noid. A tray would be a waste of space.

Lastly, I suggest a different style of bolt. I know I'm kinda endorsing my own product in a way, but you can really cut down on bolt size while maintaining the lightning bolt efficiency with this (since it's styled after the lightning bolt)(ignore the poor dimensions; it was made on a spanish computer, a language I don't speak)..............

Here's a pic comparing it to some other bolts (borg, evo cocker lightning, excalibur lightning, JCM halfblock, and mine)

Quote:

Please no, "Just get a **** instead" posts.

And for those thinking of saying, "get a cyborg; they're the same thing" I will tell you you're wrong right now. Borgs require more maintenance, as well as being less efficient. Also, the machining tolerances aren't as tight as AKA stuff. That's why Borgs use DOW 33 and the like whereas AKAs only use oil.

I have one question, where are you planning on putting the Vertical ASA and frame? Are you putting a space like MacDev guns, or keeping it tight like a cocker?

ShadowGuy · 07-09-2008, 11:39 AM

Wow, great post with a lot of good info. I really didn't think that it would be so simple... oh well.

It's funny you mention the mac 43a, it has had my eye for quite some time and was the main noid I planned on using in this project. I completely forgot about all the extra space that will be under the tube on the extrusion. Since you say that it will work as I have pictured I will start creating the ducting for the solenoid. I really don't want to run any hoses, but how difficult will it be to convert the 43a into a manifold mount, similar to what AKA did?

I really wanted to use a 'stock' AKA board, in my case the tadao. Since I wont have to worry about finding another board, and adding more cost. Do you think it would be possible to still use one of the boards (tadao,nelson,WAS,pandora) without a tray?

My main goal in this is to create something that anyone can copy and create for themselves as cheaply as possible.

I leave for the states tomorrow for a two week vacation, so I may not be on here a lot. Unfortunately when I have a project on my mind, I can't think about anything else... so I won't be completely gone.

"I have one question, where are you planning on putting the Vertical ASA and frame? Are you putting a space like MacDev guns, or keeping it tight like a cocker?"
Haven't really decided yet, I'm going to say closer to MacDev style though. I prefer cocker-close style but I have a real distaste for not having the elbow of the airline in my reg towards me. Since it will be a 2-liter I have to have at least a little space to make that possible.

The_Lead_Factor · 07-09-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowGuy

Wow, great post with a lot of good info. I really didn't think that it would be so simple... oh well.

It's funny you mention the mac 43a, it has had my eye for quite some time and was the main noid I planned on using in this project. I completely forgot about all the extra space that will be under the tube on the extrusion. Since you say that it will work as I have pictured I will start creating the ducting for the solenoid. I really don't want to run any hoses, but how difficult will it be to convert the 43a into a manifold mount, similar to what AKA did?

I really wanted to use a 'stock' AKA board, in my case the tadao. Since I wont have to worry about finding another board, and adding more cost. Do you think it would be possible to still use one of the boards (tadao,nelson,WAS,pandora) without a tray?

My main goal in this is to create something that anyone can copy and create for themselves as cheaply as possible.

I leave for the states tomorrow for a two week vacation, so I may not be on here a lot. Unfortunately when I have a project on my mind, I can't think about anything else... so I won't be completely gone.

"I have one question, where are you planning on putting the Vertical ASA and frame? Are you putting a space like MacDev guns, or keeping it tight like a cocker?"
Haven't really decided yet, I'm going to say closer to MacDev style though. I prefer cocker-close style but I have a real distaste for not having the elbow of the airline in my reg towards me. Since it will be a 2-liter I have to have at least a little space to make that possible.

You could use a Droid/'Borg board, the Tadao OLED board for those guns are sick.

Octagon · 07-09-2008, 12:50 PM

There are many similarities between the Borg and the Viking. I would say look into them for some ideas, especially since you are talking about using a Merlin extrusion body, pretty much like the Borgs do.

Anyway, I would disagree with the Borg LPR, since we are talking about machining differences between the Borg and the Viking and the choice of lubes. Also, yes, the STD's are a bit bigger, but they really are an awesome LPR. They were talking about doing a limited run of some more STD LPR's through DC. It may be a bit late, but you can also check with them about it.

Honestly, looking at a Borg may really help you out with your project. It really is pretty close to what you are thinking about doing.

thatdoolinkid · 07-09-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

You could use a Droid/'Borg board, the Tadao OLED board for those guns are sick.

QFT. The Borg board is really small too and will fit in most frames. An AKA board has really outdated eye logic, which makes it fairly slower than newer boards.

Quote:

Anyway, I would disagree with the Borg LPR, since we are talking about machining differences between the Borg and the Viking and the choice of lubes.

There really isn't too much difference using a borg LPR. It uses less space, yet the same 3/4"-20 threads. Granted the current borg LPRs aren't as good as an AKA, there is good promise for the future if STD releases theirs. Not to mention, the borg lpr is definitely a good reg anyway.

Quote:

Haven't really decided yet, I'm going to say closer to MacDev style though. I prefer cocker-close style but I have a real distaste for not having the elbow of the airline in my reg towards me. Since it will be a 2-liter I have to have at least a little space to make that possible.

You could make a compromise and go half and half like on AKA guns. A little bit of space, but not a lot.

Quote:

really don't want to run any hoses, but how difficult will it be to convert the 43a into a manifold mount, similar to what AKA did?

Simple, mill a spot where the barbs screw in, put an o-ring there, then make a manifold like an AKA/borg or direct mount it onto the bottom of the gun.

Spitlebug · 07-09-2008, 05:03 PM

I like the idea.

You are more than welcome you use my bolt as well (it was designed for a Bushmaster/BKO/ProMaster). It uses magnets to retain the pull pin.

Plan (can produce DWG and PDF versions):

Magnet layout:

ShadowGuy · 07-09-2008, 06:41 PM

I can't believe the responses I've been getting here, lot's of great info and insight. As for the LPR, I emailed DC and asked if I could get a side shot to see how big it would be behind the where it screws into the gun. I also asked them if there were still any available.

loki32687 · 07-09-2008, 06:58 PM

Forgive me for saying this. Are you essentially attempting an Evil M?

Spitlebug · 07-09-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowGuy

I can't believe the responses I've been getting here, lot's of great info and insight. As for the LPR, I emailed DC and asked if I could get a side shot to see how big it would be behind the where it screws into the gun. I also asked them if there were still any available.

Just don't tell anyone that this is where the smart people on PbN hide.

Octagon · 07-09-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loki32687

Forgive me for saying this. Are you essentially attempting an Evil M?

Yes, but it seems that either he has not heard of it, or just does not know about it. And I am not totally sure if the there is much difference between the Evil M bodies and a typical Merlin extrusion.

The_Lead_Factor · 07-09-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octagon

Yes, but it seems that either he has not heard of it, or just does not know about it. And I am not totally sure if the there is much difference between the Evil M bodies and a typical Merlin extrusion.

I think I remember someone buying an Evil M extrusion a little while back, it came with a ****load of other parts and that was an added bonus or something.

Octagon · 07-09-2008, 07:59 PM

Yeah, I remember reading that thread.

ShadowGuy · 07-09-2008, 08:00 PM

Well from what I have previously read, AKA (the man, not the company) said that the evil m used a new body that was an improvement on the merlin extrusion.

Looking at the tadao cyborg boards, how would they mount in the frame? I'm pretty sure I'd go with the 05 board as it's listed $75 cheaper than the newer board. I don't really have a need for the LED board but if I find one for cheap before this is done I would go for it.

Would either of these boards have a problem driving the mac 43a solenoid?

OMFGSTFUBBQ · 07-09-2008, 08:15 PM

Coolhand on here already made one. It's called the Valkyrie. I too have actually been thinking about making a gun here soon. I am an accomplished machinist though and have access to the machines. I am in the proccess of design still and have yet to get anything set. I will be using the merlin extrusion. I'm thinking manifold mount for the solenoid since I still have one from my 06 cyborg. I'm just trying to figure out what to use for a ram system.

Here's the link to the valkyrie.
Valkyrie

Also the SCM does look like a waste of space. The borg lpr is alot smaller.

ShadowGuy · 07-09-2008, 09:01 PM

Drew this on my wifes computer (hotel room) using ms paint so it's pretty crappy, but hopefully it gets the point across of what the ducting for the noid will be. The solenoid will be direct mounting exactly the same way AKA did, drilling holes into the top of the noid and orings between the noid and body to seal.

The_Lead_Factor · 07-09-2008, 10:00 PM

You could do what CoolHand did with his Valkyrie and mount an Alias front block, then use an AKA LPR; Or make your own custom front block and mount an STD LPR.

Kenny_McCormic (Banned) · 07-10-2008, 12:41 AM

does anybody have pics of the evil M?

new ion? · 07-10-2008, 01:02 AM

the evil M never made it into production... ****ing smartparts. as far as i know, the bodies are just an updated merlin extrusion. when i say updated i mean.... different. but same idea.

TeamCP · 07-10-2008, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowGuy

Drew this on my wifes computer (hotel room)

congrats home boy!

get this gat rolling some time in the near future and be my hero 4 eva!!!

ShadowGuy · 07-10-2008, 06:54 AM

This one should be a bit easier to understand and for me to explain. I will explain it from left to right...

Dark green dot at the front of the gun is a hole going through the light green duct and continues into the chamber. It will have a screw on the bottom so it doesn't leak into the trigger frame, a duh statement, but felt like saying it anyways. Light green duct goes all the way out the back just under the chamber (hammer) screw on the outside of the gun again sealed with a screw.

Blue square is the solenoid, blue dots are solenoid screws. The three dots in the solenoid represent the manifold. Top left dark red dot is direct into the solenoid, sealed with an o-ring. Top right red goes only partially into the body only enough to get into the light red air duct which goes all the way out the back of the gun. Bottom green dot also only goes partially up only enough to connect to light green air duct going out the back.

Final dark red dot just before the back goes all the way through the light red air duct and into the chamber. Like the dark green dot at the front of the gun this is sealed at the bottom with a screw (and loctite).

So like the MS paint picture above, when looking at the back of the gun from the outside you will see the large chamber seal (hammer cartridge) and two tiny screw just beneath it.