Let's talk about homosexuals

F1VENOM · 01-31-2013, 05:43 PM

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Originally Posted by SupraSuper

Raising kids =/= having kids

Having the kid is the easy part.

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 05:52 PM

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Originally Posted by tsbalr120

Not all gays demonize people who support traditional marriage.

Right--they're either self loathing or not informed/in denial. This is common in the elementary stages of coming out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupraSuper

Since gay people can't have kids (which provide a net benefit to society) they don't deserve any tax breaks.

1.) What tax breaks?? Is that the only federal right you're aware of?

2.) Some women can't reproduce. /SupraSuper

barrel roll · 01-31-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupyST

Right--they're either self loathing or not informed/in denial. This is common in the elementary stages of coming out.

1.) What tax breaks?? Is that the only federal right you're aware of?

2.) Some women can't reproduce. /SupraSuper

Broad sweeping statements.

for an anomaly, you are starting to disappoint.

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 06:04 PM

I could write ten pages on exactly how this stuff works, but very few on the other side of consciousness will actually admit that any of it may be valid.

What part would you like me to clarify? Rather, what part actually NEEDS clarification?

*edit* Last year I was on the front lines of the marriage debate in Minnesota. I had conversations nightly with people -- always actively engaged. Much in the way of rhetoric, ignorance, and fear to decompress and resolve. What I always found amusing is that very few actually understood it to not be a traditional debate. I was never trying to force an opinion. My goal was to force the facts. An amazing amount of this country still refutes technical data with "nuh uhh!! the bible...lerpderp" The fact that you can triumph a literal proof of concept with "nuh uh!!!" is seriously disappointing.

barrel roll · 01-31-2013, 06:35 PM

I was talking about the self loathing comment you made. No need for high horses with me, Bub.

I don't care about the other things you said. I don't want you to have the ability to marry with state license.

I don't want anyone to.

Treghc · 01-31-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupraSuper

Raising kids =/= having kids

Having kids shouln't equate to tax benefits.

Raising kids should.

Murph1329 · 01-31-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treghc

Having kids shouln't equate to tax benefits.

Raising kids should.

someone needs to tell that to the mother with 3 kids 2 of which are on disability. She then goes into a clinic and ask for a hearing test because she swears her third son is deaf. The kid passes the electronic test with flying colors. They then do a booth test and the kid fails. The doctor goes into the soundproof room and shuts the door on the mother, tells the kid off, and restarts the test. He passes with flying colors. The mother *****es and leaves saying she'll get a second opinion.

^ true story and happens all too often

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrel roll

I was talking about the self loathing comment you made. .

Indeed. It's a natural part of the stages. I don't know of one homosexual who hasn't experienced the following symptoms early on. In rare cases, some of the symptoms have an extended checkout -- all depends on environment.

1.) Denial. Not much to say about this one that isn't already obvious, except maybe a reiteration of how deep the denial stage exists. And how long it can exist. I, for example, nearly got married to a woman before realizing that I was held hostage by denial. I still have moments where I look back at events/thoughts prior and go "Wow... I can't believe THAT wasn't a sign.."

2.) Self Loathing. It's more or less anger at the changes. Probably parallel to acknowledgement in most cases and mostly a short visit. It's the stage where you still want to have all the common attributes with a previous and identifiable "you". So anyone who either did not have an opinion or had a family history of... ahem.. religious or socially conservative value, will default on that. I learned this one while IN self loathing stage. I made the argument that LGBT should not have rights to marry even up to a half year after my initial discovery period. Embarrassing moment, but was then told not to worry about it--was a common social reaction. I still remember hearing, "He's new isn't he? Don't worry--he'll be alright."

3.) Ctrl + Z. Almost every homosexual has at some point tried to go back to the other team. I personally lost a partner to it years back (He eventually and inevitably came crawling back to the rainbow team. Can't fight it.) A good amount never actually try following through, but the mental war exists. Eventually you make peace with it and realize chemicals are what they are.

4.) Exploratory. Very common for someone who has been out for about a year or two to turn into a village bicycle. It's like a college campus on a Thursday night. Not any more statistically troublesome, just more activity than they got to do when hiding in the closet.

Those are a few off the top of my head. Again, people come from many backgrounds and some never get to experience any of these or very few based on how they're living or, dare I say, WHERE they are living.

tsbalr120 · 01-31-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupyST

Right--they're either self loathing or not informed/in denial. This is common in the elementary stages of coming out.

Orrr they don't care about getting married? Or has real life to worry about?

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsbalr120

Orrr they don't care about getting married? Or has real life to worry about?

Nope. You'd like to think so, but no. Your argument suggests extremely bizarre outliers if not going so far as to identify people under duress, so I won't play into it.

F1VENOM · 01-31-2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murph1329

someone needs to tell that to the mother with 3 kids 2 of which are on disability. She then goes into a clinic and ask for a hearing test because she swears her third son is deaf. The kid passes the electronic test with flying colors. They then do a booth test and the kid fails. The doctor goes into the soundproof room and shuts the door on the mother, tells the kid off, and restarts the test. He passes with flying colors. The mother *****es and leaves saying she'll get a second opinion.

^ true story and happens all too often

lol

Anecdotes, the best basis for policy decisions.

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 07:13 PM

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Originally Posted by F1VENOM

lol

Anecdotes, the best basis for policy decisions.

F1VENOM · 01-31-2013, 07:15 PM

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Originally Posted by OccupyST

1 out of 309,000,000 is statistically significant and a prudent choice for governing the 308,999,999 others.

tsbalr120 · 01-31-2013, 07:22 PM

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Originally Posted by OccupyST

Nope. You'd like to think so, but no. Your argument suggests extremely bizarre outliers if not going so far as to identify people under duress, so I won't play into it.

So almost EVERY gay person wants to get married? Interdasting.

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 07:25 PM

Your suggestion is flawed again. You are now trying to assume that every LGBT that does not want to actively use a right would rather that no one in the community have the right. Explain that.

*edit* Don't explain it.

tsbalr120 · 01-31-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupyST

Your suggestion is flawed again. You are now trying to assume that every LGBT that does not want to actively use a right would rather that no one in the community have the right. Explain that.

*edit* Don't explain it.

(This way beyond my original statement, but whatever.)

People are, to some point, selfish, and I believe that it's not irrational to think that just because a person is gay that they support every goal of the group. I'm not saying they're against it, they just don't care and worry about their own life.

I know personal expirences matter little in poltics, which is usually argued with facts and figures, but I have a friend who fits this argument. Which is why I discredit your statement that all gay people care about gay marriage unless they're in a "temporary mental illness stage" (your self loathing remark).

OccupyST · 01-31-2013, 09:17 PM

So it goes back to my original point. You are supporting the idea of extreme outliers and do so with the same mistake Murph made. I'd like to meet your friend and figure out if he/she agrees with your assessment of their situation. It's like a woman saying, "I don't want to vote--it's not important to me, so go ahead and reverse time a bit so that all women can't vote again." If your friend does not want to get married, fine. That's not abnormal. But have you actually heard him/her say "And I don't think any of us in the LGBT community should have that right."

If so, do me a favor and tell your friend he/she should take some time and understand what and who they are. Seriously. I just sold my business for early retirement so I have a lot of time now to dick around the internet, but last year I worked roughly 15 hours a day 7 days a week little/no exceptions. In the midst of preparing for a buyout, I still had time to organize and enlist myself in causes like this, sell a house, and buy a house. We're human. We can worry about a lot of things at once and still be fine--trust me. When your friend grows up he/she will realize this. Just give it time.

You can be aware and informed without being an activist -- just remember that. I'm not standing on a float in Pride Fest, mind you. I keep to my own life just as much as the next guy, but I am smart enough to know it doesn't end there.

One more thing -- There are LGBT members who are not pressing for civil equality as much as everyone else, but they do so for other reasons as you mentioned. For example the Log Cabin Republicans. But understand this -- despite them being in favor of a party that, historically, rules against them, they still think that the civil equality issues are real and need to be corrected.

So, in summary, you're still very wrong on this one but don't take offense. (What sounds like your only source) is not mentally capable of being a benchmark of validity to your argument--I'm sorry. I am just a stranger to you, but have already flagged this one from enough angles. It's a phase or duress. If it's not a phase, I'm thinking it's duress (You ARE from Arkansas)

Umami · 01-31-2013, 09:53 PM

If Scalia wants to argue that morality exists within the constitution, doesn't that necessarily make the constitution a living document? (He's on record as calling it "dead, dead, dead.")