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04-30-2010, 08:28 AM
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#1
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Run Thru Ninja
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MA
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Gray Area and you...
Just like in almost every other sport reffs are human and sometimes blow calls. Sometimes after seeing them and determining them to be wrong and others they just plain don't see. But in plaintball there seems to be a gray area that existis. Mostly with whiping, but there are several other ways to "cheat" and get an unfair advantage. Some people strive to do what ever it takes to win and that includeds doing things that others just straight percieve as cheating. But is it the players fualt for just wanting to win so badly that they throw caution into the wind and just hope the reffs make the calls, or is it that he's just straight disshonest, which I don't agree with. I think just like in other sports players are gonna try to always gain an advatage and it's the reffs job to deterrmine how rules and actions are percieved. I've gotten the wrong end of calls before but have never held it against a player. How many of you do try to stratle the gray area when playing. And what do you think, is it part of the game or just some dishonest cheaters. I ask because like I said you should just be trying to win and let the calls be determined by the reff. This isn't golf where you call peneltys on yourself. Just curious, to play gray area or not...that is the question...
__________________
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04-30-2010, 09:01 AM
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#2
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashland, Kentucky
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You've still not told us what gray area you're talking about. Those are black/white issues you mentioned.
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04-30-2010, 10:14 AM
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#3
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Black Phoenix Officer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ashburn, VA
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Screw the gray or black area. I play cleanly and honestly. If I get hit, I get off the field. If I am unsure, I ask or call myself out. I don't break the field rule or push them to their limits.
Reputation is important in paintball, both for the individual player and their team.
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04-30-2010, 10:35 AM
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#4
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I'm not really a tourny veteran, but I've seen people talking about other players who they feel actually have specific "moves" they do in order to wipe. They'll switch sides of their bunker to hide paint from a ref or make a wipe, they'll pull a pod out before they need it, just so they can go up to wipe a hopper hit, etc. etc.
So, I don't know how prevalent it is (or even how valid), but at least some people I've spoken to feel that cheating is actually part of the skillset at some levels of play.
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04-30-2010, 10:51 AM
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#5
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A Grim and...
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ..Frostbitten Kingdom
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The only "gray" area I see is continuing to run to your bunker when you've felt a hit or two. I think it's your right to get to your bunker before checking for paint, because you may not have any breaks, and you'll certainly be hit if you stop and check yourself.
All other cases are black and white, in my opinion. That said, if I'm hit (and marked) I go out. Period, end of story.
I will admit, there have been a few times (pretty much only in speedball), where I'm so intent and focused on shooting someone that my fingers keep pulling the trigger even after I feel a hit. It is not intentional, but I feel bad about it nontheless. In the chaos of a speedball game, the damage is often done - and you can't tell the player you hit that they are in fact still in the game. I suspect that this is the kind of thing that happens and gets labeled "cheating" - even though it's not intentional. I guess it's kind of a gray area too. But I've played with some guys who if they decide they're going to do a run-through, they do a run-through all the way down the field shooting everyone while taking many hits, in hopes that the refs will just call everyone out because they don't know what else to do. I think that is just bull****, and not real paintball playing.
There are people that just blatantly wipe and otherwise make hits disappear, and even practice at getting better at that. There's no gray area there - that kind of behavior is just despicable. Plus, they are only hurting their progression in the sport. The true ballers will always put those kind of people to shame in the long run - I don't care how good they are at cheating.
Last edited by loneassassin : 04-30-2010 at 10:57 AM.
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04-30-2010, 11:07 AM
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#6
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If you're hit and you know it, you're out. If you continue playing because a ref hasn't called you out, then you are cheating.
No gray area whatsoever.
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04-30-2010, 11:58 AM
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#7
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Cannabis Corpse
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nor☆Cal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckrat
If you're hit and you know it, you're out. If you continue playing because a ref hasn't called you out, then you are cheating.
No gray area whatsoever.
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If you keep playing because a ref hasn't called anything, then you should enjoy the 2 for 1 penalty.
Check yourself if you feel anything, it's better if the ref doesn't have to pull you.
__________________
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Last edited by wgpballer5 : 04-30-2010 at 12:14 PM.
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04-30-2010, 02:08 PM
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#8
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...Unless it's an unobvious hit in which case it won't be a penalty (but you'll still be out obviously).
There aren't a whole lot of "gray" areas in paintball. Most "straddling the line" is still just cheating. I guess a dead man's walk is about the only gray area I can think of and even that is specifically against the rules at a lot of places so...yeah. It's a pretty black and white sport.
__________________
This line is in remembrance of Jared Wilson, friend and paintball teammate who died on 7/27/2005.
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04-30-2010, 04:39 PM
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#9
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Quote:
If you're hit and you know it, you're out.
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Even on a bounce?
There's really only ONE black and white, and that's that everyone should play by the same rules, and follow them honestly.
Given that, it's always been my understanding that a bounce, even if you clearly know it happened, is not a "tag" and you're not out. If I see somebody play through a bounce, that's absolutely fine. I've told people on my team "you're not out, it bounced." That's the rules, no?
Quote:
If you keep playing because a ref hasn't called anything, then you should enjoy the 2 for 1 penalty.
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Again, this somewhat varies with situation, refs, etc. This IS more of a grey area.
For example, if you're playing with half your goggles covered in orange, that's lame. You can see the hit, its right in your face, you know you're gone.
On the other hand, if you feel something sting your ribs, can't immediately see any paint, and there's a ref standing ten feet away, I'd just keep shooting, and let him pull me. I've played events where it's understood that this is how it will be played, but that was some time ago, it may have changed. Regardless, there was some expectation that you didn't have to check yourself, the refs would do it, and unless it was obvious to you that you'd been hit, you just kept playing.
In a rec game, sure, I'll check myself, it's the only way... But with a bunch of refs on a small field, all responsible for checking players, I would assume that you play till they pull you, or you know you're out. I would expect the other team to do the same.
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04-30-2010, 08:26 PM
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#10
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
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If your caught playing on then you can cost your team the match. I always check myself if I feel a hit or have the ref check me. The gray line for me is when your playing rec ball or practice and the other player sees a ball break off you and you feel a hit but theres no paint. Should you just go out because based on tournament rules you would be out or keep playing?
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04-30-2010, 11:21 PM
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#11
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Of course not. If you know that a ball has broken on you, you are out. If you know a ball has broken on you, and you continue playing, you are cheating. Refs, no refs, whatever. If you feel a hit and can't see paint, then you can get a team mate or a ref to paint check you. I have even asked opponents during rec games if I was hit in places I couldn't see.
I personally would not want to play against people who would not check themselves for hits, and go out only when a ref calls them out. But that's just me.
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05-01-2010, 01:43 AM
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#12
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Quote:
If you know a ball has broken on you, and you continue playing, you are cheating.
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I agree. The real question is what length you should go to in order to determine if the ball has broken. This is a grey area.
In recball, my policy is to get into cover, then check myself if I'm not sure. At that point I'll make certain there's no hit, and play on if clean.
In a tournament game (and again, I haven't played a tourny in a while, so the rules may have changed here), if I don't see the break, I'll keep playing. The refs are there to tell you if you've been tagged... Why else are they even there? So if I feel a hit, I'll certainly look to see if it broke, but I'm not going to stop playing and start poking around, patting myself down, making double sure. I'll let the ref do that.
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05-01-2010, 06:49 AM
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#13
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I've NEVER played in a tournament, so I don't know what the rules are there either. But I would think that wiping or trying to cover a hit would be more likely in a tournament setting for the simple reason that there is much more at stake for the players. (Cash/prizes) That's what the refs are there for. Still, there are more players than refs on the field, and the refs can't see everything that happens out there.
The fundamental difference in our viewpoints is this:
You are saying that a player should continue playing until he's certain that he's hit.
I say that a player should STOP playing until he's certain that he's NOT.
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05-01-2010, 08:45 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashland, Kentucky
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Don't any of you call "paint check" so you can stop and check? Even in the woodsball tournaments I've played in, you yell paint check and the red would temporarily stop that shootout to check the player in question. When playing rec with no refs, we would call paint check on ourselves or on an opponent. Then we stop and check the player. If no hits, we do a count of 5 to resume play.
And by the way, it's your responsibility to tell the ref to check you. Otherwise you're a cheat.
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05-01-2010, 11:56 AM
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#15
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i dont play speedball but most woods player after awhile do know when you take a good hit. think there needs to be more how to play save and fun videos on line. there to many welt videos and photos from overshoot or people shooting each other too close. people are going to cheat and any game or sport it the pros and the daily players to show new kids on the block the right way to play.
__________________
Does an ursine quadruped void wastes in an arboreal environment?
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05-01-2010, 10:32 PM
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#16
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Quote:
You are saying that a player should continue playing until he's certain that he's hit.
I say that a player should STOP playing until he's certain that he's NOT.
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Actually I agree with you when it comes to recball. In a rec game the player should indeed stop playing until he's certain he's not hit.
In a tournament, the environment is different, there's generally a ref nearby. In fact, in some situations there are MORE refs than players (in smaller games). In that situation, as I said, I'd think it's fair to expect the refs to handle more difficult checks.
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05-02-2010, 12:23 PM
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#17
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So what do you think of if you ask for a paint check you should stop playing until the check is done, or continue to shoot and play while the ref is checking you? I've stopped to let the ref check me and been lit up on a run through when a person saw the ref checking me. Now I just keep playing after calling for a paint check.
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05-02-2010, 12:57 PM
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#18
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashland, Kentucky
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You should have competent refs to disallow that if it's the rule. Playing through a paintcheck or not should be addressed in the captains meeting. If recball, of course you stop play.
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05-02-2010, 03:21 PM
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#19
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It would be nice if others waited for the check to finish before trying to move on you during recball.
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05-02-2010, 05:40 PM
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#20
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashland, Kentucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokrphenom
It would be nice if others waited for the check to finish before trying to move on you during recball.
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That's the rules. If they're being pricks, don't play with them. Of course they shouldn't be moving on anybody involved in the paintcheck. Are you saying you play with people who don't know how a paintcheck works?
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05-02-2010, 07:51 PM
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#21
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Springfield, Missouri
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again, most people dont play the same at rec-ball that they do at tournaments. i know i dont.
heres some more: if you get shot, get up and walk back towards your dead box (not on the tape) so your team mates can make moves behind you. or if theres some kind of post-bunker/run through chaos down the field and the refs are trying to sort it out or theres confusion like players arguing, do a run through and clean up house.
Last edited by NightKreeper : 05-02-2010 at 08:13 PM.
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