[Umami]

While reading this, keep in mind that Palestinians are terrorists and Israel has done nothing to provoke it ... or something ...

Gaza Abacus

[AlphaNeo36]

That's why is pays to have an effective military. The notion that the situation would be more reasonable if the IDF was incompetent is laughable.

[Umami]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

That's why is pays to have an effective military. The notion that the situation would be more reasonable if the IDF was incompetent is laughable.

Don't forget effective PR with ties to western media.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by Umami

Don't forget effective PR with ties to western media.

This.

Israel has done a tremendous job creating a culture in which its citizens are raised to believe propaganda and believe that any and all Palestinians are no-good, evil people. It's bad enough that some of the Israeli children didn't even know the Palestinians went to school and lived... normal lives.

Both sides are to blame for the violence, but Israel sure seems to get the better end of the stick due to their crackdown on public relations and their ability to persuade the general public as to what is actually going on.

At the same time, the Palestinians are down right crazy to even try to do anything to Israel. Israel is far to powerful, especially for such a minority to try and infiltrate. This battles has been going on for ages and shows no sign of stopping. It's up to the individuals over there to do what they want. I suggest they either move out of there or stop complaining. Either way, it deserves little attention and therefore no support from us.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by Treghc

This.

Israel has done a tremendous job creating a culture in which its citizens are raised to believe propaganda and believe that any and all Palestinians are no-good, evil people. It's bad enough that some of the Israeli children didn't even know the Palestinians went to school and lived... normal lives.

Both sides are to blame for the violence, but Israel sure seems to get the better end of the stick due to their crackdown on public relations and their ability to persuade the general public as to what is actually going on.

At the same time, the Palestinians are down right crazy to even try to do anything to Israel. Israel is far to powerful, especially for such a minority to try and infiltrate. This battles has been going on for ages and shows no sign of stopping. It's up to the individuals over there to do what they want. I suggest they either move out of there or stop complaining. Either way, it deserves little attention and therefore no support from us.

Bingo. It is interesting that the Palestinians are resorting to making appeals to the feminine compassion of the west to aid their cause because they have the obvious underhand. If the Palestinians were the powerful nation, you would still see an identical situation with the Israelis' backs to the wall.

I say let's stay out of it and let what ever may happen, happen. Unless there is an outcome which would directly benefit us.

[AlphaNeo36]

How does Israel sway relations in their favor that is in conflict with actual events?

[SniperForce-Duffek]

Someone I know did some training in Israel for a couple months before, had a nice talk with a couple people that migrated from Palestine. They said Israel took them in with open arms and if there ever is to be peace between the two nations Palestine has to do one thing...Stop bombing Israel. That is from the Palestinian side of things, just so you understand.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

How does Israel sway relations in their favor that is in conflict with actual events?

Israeli healthcare prioritizes Israelis over any Palestinians. Care for Palestinians can take hours upon hours before any aid is given whereas similar care is provided for Israelis as quickly as possible. Go take a look at the schooling of Israelis and how Palestinians are presented to them. Children are raised being taught that Palestinians aren't even human; that they're born to murder and kill.

Read in to Gideon Levy a bit and you'll get a very neutral perspective of event reporting within the region.

Yes, the actions of some Palestinians are rather crude and terrible. But those actions do not speak for all Palestinians. When you have a cloud of hatred and brainwashing to be seen through, it makes it hard to be seen clearly.

[AlphaNeo36]

Provide sources?

Well, Palestinians did democratically elect a terrorist organization to run their government in direct opposition to a party that denounced rocket attacks into Israel so they should be held responsible to a degree.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

Provide sources?

Well, Palestinians did democratically elect a terrorist organization to run their government in direct opposition to a party that denounced rocket attacks into Israel so they should be held responsible to a degree.

Please don't take offense to this, but Google up "Gideon Levy" and read his stories.

I'm at work and quite swamped for the time being.

[AlphaNeo36]

I was talking about the hospital and education anecdotes. I'm finding him to be very anti-Israeli establishment. Very ironic to cite that source against alleged Israeli propaganda.

[Umami]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

Provide sources?

Well, Palestinians did democratically elect a terrorist organization to run their government in direct opposition to a party that denounced rocket attacks into Israel so they should be held responsible to a degree.

The problem here is that Israel has consistently shown no respect for Palestinian territory, and many likely feel that Israel would expand indefinitely if their actions were not responded to.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning behind holding voters accountable for voting for a government that they see as doing what they can to defend their land from encroachment. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, dismissing the Palestinian government as terrorists is unfair. Many Palestinians see the IDF as terrorists, I don't see that narrative as any less valid.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

I was talking about the hospital and education anecdotes. I'm finding him to be very anti-Israeli establishment. Very ironic to cite that source against alleged Israeli propaganda.

Are you saying a source I'm using to explain the levels of propaganda Israel uses which disagrees with the levels of propaganda being used is ironic?

[AlphaNeo36]

Originally Posted by Umami

The problem here is that Israel has consistently shown no respect for Palestinian territory, and many likely feel that Israel would expand indefinitely if their actions were not responded to.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning behind holding voters accountable for voting for a government that they see as doing what they can to defend their land from encroachment. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, dismissing the Palestinian government as terrorists is unfair. Many Palestinians see the IDF as terrorists, I don't see that narrative as any less valid.

How is it unfair? Hamas publicly said last week, if I can find the NYT article I will link it, that they will continue to fire rockets into Israel with the express purpose of causing terror on the Israeli population, aka terrorism. They know the Iron Dome system makes their offense obsolete but they continue regardless because they feel the terror of warning sirens and retaliatory launches are an effective means of disrupting the Israeli way of life. Israel would stop their attacks on Hamas infrastructure if Hamas agreed to stop launching rockets into Israeli cities, that is known. Israel's goal to their offensive is to make organizations like Hamas or Islamic Jihad incapable of targeting Israeli citizens and as long as the rockets continue to flow, the response will increasingly escalate.

Originally Posted by Treghc

Are you saying a source I'm using to explain the levels of propaganda Israel uses which disagrees with the levels of propaganda being used is ironic?

Citing an individual holding a journalistic goal of anti-Israeli publications to describe Israeli propaganda is ironic.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

Citing an individual holding a journalistic goal of anti-Israeli publications to describe Israeli propaganda is ironic.

Saying that is his goal is pretty far-fetched. He's an Israeli, born and raised. He worked for their military and has spent enough time there to know what things are like. He holds an opinion and gives reports to support his ideas. Of ****ing course he isn't going to hold the most favorable opinions towards something he thinks is being misrepresented. You seem to be looking for only things that agree with your preconceived notions about the field of study. That's being intellectually dishonest. Him not favoring the Israeli government means nothing in regards to his merit of journalism. Hell, it's rather hypocritical to think that at all. I'm trying to tell you that the Israeli government essentially brainwashes the population through propaganda and other means... He's saying exactly that.

[Umami]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

Israel would stop their attacks on Hamas infrastructure if Hamas agreed to stop launching rockets into Israeli cities, that is known.

Bull****.

http://www.businessinsider.com/netan...attack-2012-11

Israel has repeatedly expanded into Palestinian lands without provocation, what do you expect Palestinians to do, just let their homes be demolished?

[AlphaNeo36]

That sentence was clearing pertaining to the current conflict.

Originally Posted by Treghc

Saying that is his goal is pretty far-fetched. He's an Israeli, born and raised. He worked for their military and has spent enough time there to know what things are like. He holds an opinion and gives reports to support his ideas. Of ****ing course he isn't going to hold the most favorable opinions towards something he thinks is being misrepresented. You seem to be looking for only things that agree with your preconceived notions about the field of study. That's being intellectually dishonest. Him not favoring the Israeli government means nothing in regards to his merit of journalism. Hell, it's rather hypocritical to think that at all. I'm trying to tell you that the Israeli government essentially brainwashes the population through propaganda and other means... He's saying exactly that.

Get the sand out of your vagina and don't cite obvious reporter bias to further a point then moan because you're called out on it. You're being intellectually dishonest. There is plenty of reporting on the issue around the world to cite your previous statements, as long as they exist, that don't require sources personally attached to a specific side. Let me cite John Gruber regarding how crappy Android is...

[Overbear]

Originally Posted by Umami

Israel has repeatedly expanded into Palestinian lands without provocation, what do you expect Palestinians to do, just let their homes be demolished?

pretty much yea, Palestinians have started **** from day one. Perhaps if they didnt provoke Israel, they wouldn't get their butts handed to them. Props to Israel for having restraint and not just wiping every last palestinian out to the last man, woman, and child.

[SniperForce-Duffek]

You can't trust people who ride 3 guys to one motorcycle.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11...rough-streets/

[ElJefe13]

Originally Posted by SniperForce-Duffek

You can't trust people who ride 3 guys to one motorcycle.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11...rough-streets/

You know it's a bad picture when the dead body being dragged through the streets is not the first thing you notice.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

Get the sand out of your vagina and don't cite obvious reporter bias to further a point then moan because you're called out on it. You're being intellectually dishonest. There is plenty of reporting on the issue around the world to cite your previous statements, as long as they exist, that don't require sources personally attached to a specific side. Let me cite John Gruber regarding how crappy Android is...

So, what you're saying is that things are only valid if they already agree with your viewpoints. Got it. Thanks.