[Kennard_Mafia]

Originally Posted by Horizon

It has nothing to do with keeping players apart. Even if every single person on the field was a first time player, I would still only want them to shoot a certain amount (about 500 to 700 paintballs) because that's the amount that we feel is the right amount to produce the optimum environment. It's a choice we've made because it works well. It's an amount that is enough for people to have a good time with and not enough for people to get carried away with. It's an amount that attracts the most number of customers. Since we're a business, we want lots of customers. It works well for us and it works well for our customers. If it didn't, we'd do it different.

There are lots of other places to play that cater to players that want to shoot higher volumes of paint. Why can't you just leave the people who don't want to play in the high volume environments alone?

wow thats like sayin a move theatre charges you 28 bux (here its only 7 bux) and they decide that you can only watch the first quarter of the movie. it provides the optimum environment because thats what the owners say... this sport isnt about control, its about players having fun. if they wanna shoot 7000 balls a day that cool, if they wanna shoot 700 balls a day thats cool too. i dont understand where you get off chosing how much u get to shoot that day, to me thats ****in dumb. it shouldnt matter how much they shoot. you should charge the same amount for a case. if you only want them to shoot 700 then make rules that allow only that. i understand that you want only so much paint shot a day, thats fine and dandy ok?

now i wouldnt mind being civil and us just having a dissagreement.

heres the thing
A) i understand that you only want so much paint shot
B) i dissagree with your method and reasoning behind it
1.charging alot more
2.because thats an "optimum environment"
C) i think there are other ways of doin that. if you drop your paint prices i feel (i just feel, idk how your crowd thinks)

thats my thing, thats my issue. weve both been pretty damn hard headed back and forth and i dont want to see either of us gettin infractions for bein dicks. im an ******* through and through, im hot headed and got in fights during every game of my senior year of football. i normally dont try to see the other side of things, ive tried with yours, and i kinda see what your wantin to do. i agree that alot of us tourny guys shoot too much, i also agree that new players get overshot alot. i just dont see how come you want to charge so much?

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Kennard_Mafia

wow thats like sayin a move theatre charges you 28 bux (here its only 7 bux) and they decide that you can only watch the first quarter of the movie. it provides the optimum environment because thats what the owners say...

Movie watchers do not affect each other. If one movie watcher watches a whole movie, it's not going to affect other movie watchers. Paintball players do affect each other. There is no comparison there whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Kennard_Mafia

this sport isnt about control, its about players having fun. if they wanna shoot 7000 balls a day that cool, if they wanna shoot 700 balls a day thats cool too. i dont understand where you get off chosing how much u get to shoot that day, to me thats ****in dumb. it shouldnt matter how much they shoot. you should charge the same amount for a case. if you only want them to shoot 700 then make rules that allow only that. i understand that you want only so much paint shot a day, thats fine and dandy ok?

Not at my field that caters recreational paintball players that prefer to play in lower volumes environment. It's NOT OK to shoot 7,000 paintballs at our field. Those that want to do that can go to fields that cater to that kind of player and want that kind of environment.

Originally Posted by Kennard_Mafia

thats my thing, thats my issue. weve both been pretty damn hard headed back and forth and i dont want to see either of us gettin infractions for bein dicks. im an ******* through and through, im hot headed and got in fights during every game of my senior year of football. i normally dont try to see the other side of things, ive tried with yours, and i kinda see what your wantin to do. i agree that alot of us tourny guys shoot too much, i also agree that new players get overshot alot. i just dont see how come you want to charge so much?

I don't charge much different for a day of paintball than most other fields. The only difference is I supply my customers with less paint. What does that mean?

It means they spend the same, but play in a low volume environment. It means, that they have fun. If they did not, they would go to a faciity where they paid the same and everyone shot more paint.

If I charged less for paint and used some sort of method to physically limit the amount of paintballs to 500-700, I would not make enough to cover costs and I would NEED to have players shoot more to make ends meet. Either that, or I would have to raise other rates like entry fees. If I did that, players would still pay the same and shoot 500-700 paintballs, so what would be the difference. My way accomplishes the same thing, but there is no forced method of physically controlling the amount shot. Players choose themselves whether first, they want to come to the facility at all, and second, to shoot an amount of paint that creates an environment that a larger percentage of the general population seems to enjoy. It's simple and it works. And like I said before, in the end, it's up to the consumer if he/she wants to take part. I have never forced anyone to take part. Every one of my customers chooses to play with us on their own. Every one. And we have our fair share.

[Kennard_Mafia]

so horizon, what i want to know is what you do then, when somebody comes in with a couple hundred bucks and just hoses the place all day? i know you said most people dont, but, you also say you dont force them to shoot like that and its still there choice to on how much to pay/shoot. im beggining to understand your reasoning, im not agreeing, but i do understand what you need to make ends meet. i just dont understand how, if someone was hardheaded enough, you would control a fast shooter in this environment.

now i understand that you discourage it, but how would you handle that? im sure that theres a chance that somebody someday might show up with a huge wad of cash and play like we do. its just a question, not tryin to start another gigantic arguement. just curious

[NoelyDeezNutz]

he would ask them to leave or go to the field down the street.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Kennard_Mafia

so horizon, what i want to know is what you do then, when somebody comes in with a couple hundred bucks and just hoses the place all day? i know you said most people dont, but, you also say you dont force them to shoot like that and its still there choice to on how much to pay/shoot. im beggining to understand your reasoning, im not agreeing, but i do understand what you need to make ends meet. i just dont understand how, if someone was hardheaded enough, you would control a fast shooter in this environment.

now i understand that you discourage it, but how would you handle that? im sure that theres a chance that somebody someday might show up with a huge wad of cash and play like we do. its just a question, not tryin to start another gigantic arguement. just curious

OK, fair questions. First, just beause people have money, doesn't mean they are asshats. When everyone else is shooting 500 paintballs, most people don't feel the need to shoot 2,000 paintballs to be competitive and to have fun.

Having said that, we have had a few people over the years (very few) that have shot too many paintballs for our liking. When this happens, we take them aside and discuss the situation with them. I have not had a player yet that hasn't listened to reason and agreed to shoot less paint or leave willingly.

We've had players that shot a little too much for our liking without being asshats as well. Some people just have a tougher time to control themsleves. To those we suggest that they might want to consider picking up a pump if they have to ugh time controling how much they shoot. If that is not to their liking, we suggest they play at a facility that will be happy to sell them lots of paint and play with likeminded players.

[paintballingguy]

Originally Posted by heysueskreesto2

I think it has been said that the standard fps would still be 300 so I don';t know what all of this talk is about. Yes it seems that the range at that fps is going to be lower and I am not sure of any GI Milsim answer to that, but I'm fairly sure I've heard somewhere it is still going to be at 300 fps.

Oh- and to the OP. Hypothetical situation. .50 cal catches on. You decide to fight it and sell only .68 and have an FPO policy. You lose customers.

Another one, once again very hypothetical: .50 cal catches on and is cheaper as we have heard it would be. Fields stocking .50 will offer cheaper prices overall because paint will be cheaper, fielding in more customers and allowing more customers to play more often. Result = more profits than you. Not necessarily, this is hypothetical. Too many variables to predict anything. You don't even know the set pricing yet. What if it ends up being cases of 2000 for just $10-20 less? Even if it works out that you make less profit selling each case of paint, you'll theoretically attract more customers.

Where would these customers come from? You act as if 50 cal paintball is going to magically create a bunch of paintball players.. Those "More" customers are already customers of the .68 cal market. You can say the paint will be cheaper, but I wouldn't count your chickens before they are hatched. And the amount the end user could save is MINIMAL compared to the burden of buying all new markers, hoppers and barrels, AND not being able to shoot as far.

.50 cal paint means, all new markers, all new barrels, all new hoppers, all new ball manufacturing equipment. All this isn't going to come from nowhere, the end user (you and I) are going to have to pay for this, one way or another.

I see .50 cal paint going over as well as .48 cal did for rap..
I will pay $10 more for paint if that means I get to keep and use my old markers, hoppers and barrels, And that I don't drop my effective range. I think most people will feel like I do.

But seriously I don't see it going very far.

[jake55]

Originally Posted by paintballingguy

Where would these customers come from? You act as if 50 cal paintball is going to magically create a bunch of paintball players.. Those "More" customers are already customers of the .68 cal market. You can say the paint will be cheaper, but I wouldn't count your chickens before they are hatched. And the amount the end user could save is MINIMAL compared to the burden of buying all new markers, hoppers and barrels, AND not being able to shoot as far.

.50 cal paint means, all new markers, all new barrels, all new hoppers, all new ball manufacturing equipment. All this isn't going to come from nowhere, the end user (you and I) are going to have to pay for this, one way or another.

I see .50 cal paint going over as well as .48 cal did for rap..
I will pay $10 more for paint if that means I get to keep and use my old markers, hoppers and barrels, And that I don't drop my effective range. I think most people will feel like I do.

But seriously I don't see it going very far.

It has the potential to decrease the cost of a day of play 30% at a field for a new player and be making the same profits. That can bring new players in.

[iboomalot]

Originally Posted by jake55

It has the potential to decrease the cost of a day of play 30% at a field for a new player and be making the same profits.

Please explain??

might keep in mind current .50cal costs the same or more than .68cal and .43cal is running $50 per 2,000

You did say potential so some leeway is granted please explain.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by jake55

It has the potential to decrease the cost of a day of play 30% at a field for a new player and be making the same profits. That can bring new players in.

And it has the potential to have players shootig more paint if it's cheaper which means it will scare more new players away.

[Executive Paintball]

Originally Posted by jake55

I also think the margins will be the same just differently scaled.

EG: Case of paint cost now wholesale(random number) 20$
Sell at: 35$
= 15$ profit

Case of .50 cal wholesale(random number) 10$
Sell at: 25$
= 15$ profit

Um the profit margin is different by 18%. That is huge

[Spitlebug]

Hey Reiner, are you going to be stocking .50 cal at your field? I imagine not unless there is a call for it. I can't imagine that .50 cal really goes over well with the pump crowd that you have at your field...

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Spitlebug

Hey Reiner, are you going to be stocking .50 cal at your field? I imagine not unless there is a call for it. I can't imagine that .50 cal really goes over well with the pump crowd that you have at your field...

Most of our customers shoot semis, but to answer your question, we will look at it, should there ever be demand. Right now it's all just talk.

[paintballingguy]

Originally Posted by jake55

It has the potential to decrease the cost of a day of play 30% at a field for a new player and be making the same profits. That can bring new players in.

Potential means nothing. an atom has huge potential, so do you or I, so does a strain of bacteria. To talk of potential is to talk of dreams and wishful thinking.
I have the potential to win every lottery I buy a ticket for. R.A.P .48 cal had the potential to be even cheaper than .50 cal.

Results and facts are what count. And the facts are, Long before the end user could even use the paint, (s)he must buy new markers, new hoppers, new barrels. And The industry must design, market and finance new markers, new hoppers, new barrels, and new machinery for ball production. We are talking Millions, if not billions of dollars. Before the end user even has the chance to start buying .50 cal paint. even IF (and I doubt it will ever happen) you saved %30 off a $40 case of paint, How does that mean people are going to play/shoot more? Cases used to cost me $200 and now they cost me $80 (here in Canada) I don't play twice as much now, and I don't shoot twice as much now.. Most ballers I"ve known over the years are the same.

All I'm saying is that facts and actions speak volumes, Dreams and potential are just that.

[BELOWZERO]

Originally Posted by tv's jon dore

wowzers.

field owners have designated fill colors and FPO.

I know of 2 good firlds nearby and atleast 3 guerilla fields that are just as good..... and host just as many people on a regular basis.


solong as field owners can easily make money selling 50 cal paint without the worry of off field paint making its way on field then there is not a problem (for field owners)

what about all there rental gear ? how the **** can they change over all of there gear fields are going out of business left and right and cash is tight enough as is, the paintball industry is trying to re invent the wheel and its just not working, if it isnt broke why even waste the time to fix it