[Mastermind26]

This is always a challenging verse. How do you follow this up?


The word mystery is so fitting. As humans it is in our nature to try and figure things out. Science has come a long way in describing events that baffled humankind in ages past. Now when the Bible says that Jesus life and ministry (and death and ascension too) is a mystery it is because science will never be able to prove (or disprove) this. Not until we see Him face to face will we know this great mystery.

Also from 1 Timothy, there is this great passage:
1 Tim. 4:16 - Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

This is what we need to strive towards. Understanding what Christ did for us (even if we don't quite understand the mystery of how it was possible), continuing in the teachings/doctrine to save ourselves and others around us whom we share this with.

[wrath_ltd]

nice wil...it touches me because i have a few friends who want science to win out...because they like the thought of owning themselves...

[drefish99]

John 10:11
11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

[Mastermind26]

Originally Posted by drefish99

John 10:11
11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

Super verse! Jesus demonstrated His love for us by laying down His life in substitution for us. He goes on to say a couple verses over :
17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."

It was voluntary. He did it out of love for us. Love shown to us when we were still considered enemies with God. He demonstrated also his willingness to extend friendship.
John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.

It just encompasses so much that it is basically God loving us and explaining it in 1 verse. Great find!

[mynameisjonathon]

Originally Posted by drefish99

John 10:11
11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

"good" is totally up to opnion. When your sheep are humans, you could definatly train them all to be shepards..

[Mastermind26]

Originally Posted by mynameisjonathon

"good" is totally up to opnion. When your sheep are humans, you could definatly train them all to be shepards..

Could you explain what "you could definatly train them all to be shepards.." means? I'm not sure I follow.

[mynameisjonathon]

Originally Posted by Mastermind26

Could you explain what "you could definatly train them all to be shepards.." means? I'm not sure I follow.

I'm just saying why have followers, people who don't think for themselves, when you could train everyone to think about it.

[Mastermind26]

Originally Posted by mynameisjonathon

I'm just saying why have followers, people who don't think for themselves, when you could train everyone to think about it.

So you're asking why must everyone be a sheep (follower) and not a shepherd (leader)? If so, then please explain "train to think about IT".

[mynameisjonathon]

Originally Posted by Mastermind26

So you're asking why must everyone be a sheep (follower) and not a shepherd (leader)? If so, then please explain "train to think about IT".

Look its not hard to understand. Why would you want people who blindly follow instead of people who understand the religion.

[Mastermind26]

Originally Posted by mynameisjonathon

Look its not hard to understand. Why would you want people who blindly follow instead of people who understand the religion.

No I don't understand your point, not your argument. Logic says there needs to be a leader since not everyone is. Some are followers. Besides that, the verse in question does not talk about taking leadership, but the sacrifice our Leader (Jesus Christ) laid down His life for us (for our sins) out of love for us.

This thread is also for finding what the Bible tells you and not to discuss your POV on leadership (or "blindly" following a "book"). Maybe you want to open a thread for that, if 1 is not already open.

[mynameisjonathon]

Originally Posted by Mastermind26

No I don't understand your point, not your argument. Logic says there needs to be a leader since not everyone is. Some are followers. Besides that, the verse in question does not talk about taking leadership, but the sacrifice our Leader (Jesus Christ) laid down His life for us (for our sins) out of love for us.

This thread is also for finding what the Bible tells you and not to discuss your POV on leadership (or "blindly" following a "book"). Maybe you want to open a thread for that, if 1 is not already open.

I'm pretty sure the thread was made to give my opnion about the verse. So stop inquring about my opnion and mabye there won't be a problem.

How this will work is I will post a passage of the bible then open up the conversation on people’s thoughts of that verse.

Personaly I woulden't want sheep, blind followers, people who don't even understand my religion to be in it without being enlightend to what they were following.

[drefish99]

Originally Posted by mynameisjonathon

Personally I wouldn't want sheep, blind followers, people who don't even understand my religion to be in it without being enlightened to what they were following.

We do enlighten the "blind" followers by continuing to study the bible in bible studies and Sunday school. Weather they apply the teachings in their lives and to live as Jesus did that is up to them. You can't condemn religion or group all the followers of that religion for the actions of a few.

Great sharing. Thanks Jonathan.

Next verse:
Matthew 5:1-11

1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

[Mastermind26]

Not mine, but a very good break down: (in 2 parts)

The Beatitudes

"Beatitude", is not a word found in the Bible. It comes from the Latin word for "blessed". It is applied to this discourse because it refers to the blessings of those who endeavour to develop the character described by Christ. The word which begins each of the 8 statements in the original Greek means blessed in the sense of being happy. Jesus is describing a heavenly happiness, the happiness of being in favour with God, or "walking with God", a happiness of the highest kind. (Compare Psalm 1:1,2; Deut. 33:29)

The personality that Jesus describes is essentially his own and he anticipates that his followers will try to emulate his character and dedication. The discourse bears no relationship to those outside the hope of salvation through Christ, in the promises of God. It portrays the moral qualities of people already in a relationship of commitment with God.

There are eight Beatitudes, and in the Scriptures, the number 8 is associated with a new beginning, and with circumcision, symbolic of the cutting off of the natural or fleshly instincts. (Genesis 17:9-14; Lev. 12:3; Luke 1:59; Luke 2:21)

In each one of the eight Beatitudes, the person of whom Jesus speaks is pronounced "blessed", or happy. This is not only because of the prospect set before that person regarding the Kingdom of God, noted in the first and last Beatitudes, but also because of the continuing tranquility of mind of those who know and do their Lord's will:

"If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them". John 13:17

1. Poor in Spirit - (Matthew 5:3)

We compare this with:

"…But to this one I will look, to him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at my word." Isaiah 66:2

Such a mind has chosen the way of God over being consumed by the attractions in the nature of the flesh. One cannot begin to accept the gifts of God while being absorbed with achieving the prizes of the world. Human wisdom gives way to "trembling at the Word of God". At the end of such "poverty", there is great riches - an eternal abiding place in God's Kingdom.
2. They that Mourn- Matthew 5:4

Such people are committed to the truth of God's Word. They view the world from God's position, and they lament a society that either has no interest in, or actively opposes, the things of God. Jesus' words are an echo of Isaiah 61, where, in verse 3, there is a reference to "mourn in Zion". They mourn the absence of their Lord, (Matthew 9:15), and they await "the times of refreshing", referred to in Acts 3:19-21, when Jesus will be once again sent to this earth.
3. The Meek - Matthew 5:5

Such individuals are teachable. Jesus provides us with two very significant ‘Bible echoes' here. The first can be found in Psalm 25: 9-14. Quoting only from verse 9:

"The meek will He guide in judgment; and the meek will He teach His way".

He ties this in with a similar promise made in another Psalm:

"But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace". Psalm 37:11

Meekness and gentleness are quite often looked upon as weaknesses in our world. But in fact, the true meaning of this quality is to be found only in the strongest of characters. Example:

"Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth". Numbers 12:3

This is a quality which requires courage and self-control. It consists of not putting our confidence in the way of the flesh, but rather of rejoicing in God's words and trying to follow His ways:

"…Who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh," Philippians 3:3

4. Hungering and Thirsting after Righteousness - Matthew 5:6

Once again, Jesus provides us with an echo from Isaiah:

"Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost". Isaiah 55:1

The true disciple of Christ is emptied of the ingredients that give satisfaction to the carnal mind. But life cannot remain empty. A person who is satisfied by the world has no interest in spiritual food.

The poor in spirit, the meek, etc., are blessed for qualities they already possess. But those Jesus is describing here have an ongoing longing for righteousness. This longing can only be satisfied in God, in His Word, and in Jesus. Peter came to understand this longing:

"Like new born babes, long for the pure milk of the word, that by it you may grow in respect to salvation," 1 Peter 2:2

Jesus himself said:

"…I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst". John 6:35

5. The Merciful - Matthew 5:7

Self-discipline, if we are not careful, can produce a harsh attitude toward the failings of others. We must balance this with "goodness" or "kindness or mercy" as it is shown in God Himself:

"Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off". Romans 11:22

The motive for our mercy comes from the love of God. Once we come to know and realize His loving grace and generosity, and the way in which His mercy flows to us through His Son, it creates within us a responsive love. Love of God finds expression in love of others. We cannot give like God, but we can and must learn to forgive like Him and be merciful.

"If someone says, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar…" 1 John 4:20

Someone asked Jesus, "which is the great commandment in the law?" We are all encouraged to read and commit to our hearts the response that he gave. It is recorded in Matthew 22:37, 38.

[Mastermind26]

Part 2:

6. Pure in Heart - Matthew 5:8

A reference providing an echo back to Psalm 24 gives us a further insight into the nature of those who will see God:

"…Who may stand in His Holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood, and has not sworn deceitfully. He shall receive a blessing from the Lord and righteousness from the God of his salvation. This is the generation of those who seek Him, who seek Thy face…" Psalm 24:3-6

Unless our hearts are pure, our lives cannot be, no matter how much our actions and our words might seem to suggest that it is:

"To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They confess to know God but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed". Titus 1:15, 16

Pure means "unmixed". Gold is only pure when there are no alloys present. In order to purify our hearts, our efforts should be directed towards seeking God's way rather than pursuing the inclination toward sin in the nature of man. The intention is that we endeavour to reject all forms of evil in our lives, not just some.

Our Heavenly Father knows that this is difficult. If we are to follow Jesus' instruction, we should be searching our own hearts for evils that we might be harbouring, just as God searches them:

"The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it? I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give to each man always according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds". Jeremiah 17:9,10,

We can best work toward this by a prayerful and sincere concentration on Jesus who is pure and holy, remembering the love that both Jesus and his Father have extended towards us. Even as we try to make ourselves morally and spiritually like Jesus, we do so with hope in the knowledge that when he returns, we can be perfected in him and made like him:

"…We know that, when he appears, we shall be like him, … And everyone who has this hope fixed on him purifies himself, just as he is pure". 1 John 3:2,3

7. Peacemakers - Matthew 5:9

A study of God's Word on the subject of peace, quickly reveals that peace-makers in God's sight are not simply those who run around trying to make truces providing peace among other parties. The wisdom book in God's word gives us an insight into this direction that Jesus is providing:

"He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit, than he who captures a city". Proverbs 16:32
"Like a city that is broken into and without walls is a man who has no control over his spirit". Proverbs 25:28

Before the follower of Christ can make peace within and among others, he must quieten his own restless spirit. Peace is a fruit of the spirit provided to those who truly follow Jesus:

"…the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; … those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires". Galatians 5:22-24

James, in his Epistle, says "wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits". (James 3:17)

The opposite is true of those who are controlled by natural fleshly wisdom, who have "jealousy and selfish ambition in their hearts". (James 3:14)

Peace is difficult to maintain and must be pursued or diligently preserved:

"Being diligent to preserve the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace". Ephesians 4:3
"Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it". Psalm 34:14

Those who are peacemakers, in this manner, says Jesus, are the sons, or the children of God. They are at peace with the Father:

"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Romans 5:1

8. Persecuted for Righteousness' Sake - Matthew 5:10-12

Jesus has been describing the characteristics of a saint, a "called out one" or "separated one" who endeavours to follow or emulate Him as much as possible. The character of such individuals is not attractive to the world in general. Those who reject a true understanding of God and His Son will sometimes reject those who reflect the characteristics of Jesus, just as the ungodly Jews in Israel rejected Jesus himself. This has been true throughout history, and many examples are found in God's own word. At times of persecution for faith in God and His word, His hope shines through as a beacon and an ultimate haven of safety:

"Hear the word of the Lord, you who tremble at His word; your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for My name's sake, …will be put to shame". Isaiah 66:5

Jesus' disciples, those who actually heard his word during his day, would fellowship his sufferings, and share the impact of hatred and cruelty with him. The measure of their faith would be the measure of their persecution. Suffering would develop trust and strength of character. They, too, would be made "perfect through suffering". (Compare Hebrews 2:10; 5:8,9)

Most who live in the western nations have been blessed with the freedom to worship God and follow Jesus without fear of persecution. This has not always been true, nor is it true today, in other areas of the world. We must anticipate the possibility that it may not always be true here.

Jesus knew that such persecution would take place throughout the ages until he once again returned. His true disciples, who endured such persecution, would be rewarded with their position in the Kingdom which was to be set up at that time.

Jesus, therefore, provides further words of encouragement to be remembered during such times. Matthew records these words in verses 10 and 11 following the declaration of the Beatitudes.

Their persecutions would align them with Jesus and the prophets. This would give them incentive for they would be assured of reward in the Kingdom. Rather than be sad, they had cause to leap for joy. (Compare Acts 5:41; 1 Peter 4:13, 14; 1 Peter 3:14; Philippians 1:29)

[drefish99]

Matthew 6
Giving to the Needy
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

[drefish99]

Mark 8:34-35
34Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

[drefish99]

Psalms 18:2
The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

[drefish99]

1 John 1:7
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

[drefish99]

Psalm 143:8
8 Let the morning bring me word of your unfailing love,
for I have put my trust in you.
Show me the way I should go,
for to you I lift up my soul.

[Mastermind26]

Originally Posted by drefish99

Psalm 143:8
8 Let the morning bring me word of your unfailing love,
for I have put my trust in you.
Show me the way I should go,
for to you I lift up my soul.

How is it that I was unsubscribed from this thread?

Anyway, this verse could not come at a better time for me. My wife is going through career crossroads. It is a moment where trust is made real, rubber meeting the road as it were. Here we can fall in despair of what tomorrow will hold or grab hold of the trust that lifts us up out of the pits.

The words jump out to me right now. Unfailing love, trust in You, Show me, Go, I lift up my soul. So powerful and reassuring. God is good ALL the time.

Thank you for this! A source of comfort in a storm of uncertainty!

[drefish99]

Originally Posted by Mastermind26

God is good ALL the time.

And ALL the time God is good my brother.