Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-28-2014, 08:09 AM #64
WildWeasel2k4
 
 
WildWeasel2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wilmington Nor*Car
 has been a member for 10 years
WildWeasel2k4 plays in the PSP
 plays in the NXL
WildWeasel2k4 is an NCPA player
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraysonG View Post
Spot on. This isn't for the brand new kid starting out. It's for the guys in D1-3 that have that aspiration and need a reality check. Being the top dog at a local field means jack **** to me. I teach my clinics the same way. I'll have a mixed group of beginners I'm encouraging and complimenting, and I have my seasoned players I'm a dick and perfectionist too.

When I was growing up, I would get lit from head to toe and come back for more. The kids that got lit up, whined, complained about the old guys and how "mean" they never had the drive to be one of the best in the sport.

If you didn't like my message, then it was too early for you in your career or it wasn't meant for you and you'll always be that guy who had some excuse for not playing at the highest level.
Im an old product of the mantis factory farm so I know all about taking 20 to the back on uncapped semi... Still playing to this day. You obviously play with a lot of passion and that's why you've been playing at such a high level for so long. Did you ever think of it like this though? In his book, Phil Jackson said that he had to be careful of how he criticized Kobe... He had to pick his timing and his words correctly because he knew that Kobe was his own toughest critic and he didn't need someone in his face every time he made a mistake. My earlier reference to the art chaos guys comes from tournament footage I've seen, but I'd also be willing to bet that they are equally as gentleman-like in practice against whoever they are playing against. If a kid comes out to the field for practice or a clinic with a huge head, a terrible attitude, a cheating mentality and a big mouth then yes that kid deserves a slice of humble pie, however, if a kid comes out, plays hard, and does their best to correct their mistakes on their own because they want to play at a high level then who are you to say that they deserve to be punished? Certain kids need a couple to the back of the head and other kids don't and by painting all these "softies" with the same brush you could potentially be turning some great talent away from our beloved sport.
__________________
Szep
D3 Allstar for life
Cacks
WildWeasel2k4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 11-28-2014, 09:32 AM #65
mazens55
Follow No One.
 
mazens55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
 plays in the NXL
 plays in the NXL 2
mazens55 owns a Planet Eclipse CS1
mazens55 plays in the APPA D3 division
This isn't just about paintball.. This is the way my generation is coming up. The whole, "everyone gets a trophy" mentality is a joke. Kids aren't learning how to have a shell; physical and mental toughness. Good post here, Grayson.
__________________
Miami University Paintball #55 - Retired
Texas Phalanx
mazens55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:44 AM #66
StreetfighterX
Don't mess with an Imp
 
StreetfighterX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Pgh, PA
StreetfighterX supports Shocker RSX
StreetfighterX supports Ninja Paintball
__________________
Smart Parts: What is dead may never die


((((O))))
StreetfighterX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:58 AM #67
WildWeasel2k4
 
 
WildWeasel2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wilmington Nor*Car
 has been a member for 10 years
WildWeasel2k4 plays in the PSP
 plays in the NXL
WildWeasel2k4 is an NCPA player
My point is this, some talent needs a slap in the back of the head and some talent needs a little encouragement. Everybody does not deserve a trophy, those who win deserve a trophy. In order to get the most and the best out of every player you're going to need a dynamic approach that caters to individual strong and weak points. Players like Kobe and Mike didn't need a slap in the back of the head because they already had the desire to win, they had the desire to give 110% every time, they had the desire to push themselves and everybody around them because they wanted to be the best. All they needed was the occasional reminder of "hey, pass the ball once in a while"... Legends. Had they been under different coaches they still would've been great, but 11 combined rings great? Debatable. Players like Scottie pippen or Ron arrest definitely needed a slap in the back of the head because at times they rode their talent to where they were and didn't think they needed to give it 110% every time. For whatever reason they forgot that there was a team that needed them and they needed a reminder every now and again... My goal in coaching new talent, whether it's paintball, basketball, soccer or lacrosse is to bring out the most in each player that I have. Certain kids have the fire inside and don't need you to fan the flame more, they just need you to show them how to channel it correctly. Other kids need you to fan their flame. Other kids simply just need to be excused from practice permanently because they're dicks for no reason. You can't paint everyone with the same brush though and Grayson, from a business point of view, if you are trying to give your clinic customers the most bang for their buck, you should consider adopting an approach that will bring out the best in everybody rather than what simply worked for you as a kid.
__________________
Szep
D3 Allstar for life
Cacks

Last edited by WildWeasel2k4 : 11-28-2014 at 10:05 AM.
WildWeasel2k4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:00 AM #68
applejacks!
 
 
applejacks!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Iowa City, IA
applejacks! owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
applejacks! supports Team VICIOUS
I love this. So many pussies these days its unbelievable. Literally unbelievable. You guys can say how good it is to be a softy, but that's pure wrong to me. How are you gonna survive on your own? you gotta be tough. You have to deal with your failures and use that as fuel to make you succeed the next time the opportunity presents itself, and be great. We're coming to a time where you litereally cant act like this anymore. mommy is WAY overprotecting these days, if you touch little Bobby or hurt him in any way it seems there is an inevitable law suit on your hands.. Wrestling did wonders for me, but these days kids like to play WWE on their xbox instead, and they think it does the same for them... Getting beat down mentally and physically makes you tougher than anything else. You can succeed because once you've been there and done that, you know what its like and you know what it takes to win. Hard work and blood and sweat and tears gets you what you want in this life. Im so sick of the mainstream B.S. that is saying the opposite. "Sit arounddd, do nothing, we'll just keep pumping you full of whatever you ask for no problem!".... Obama seems to have a lot to do with this too.... But lets not bring politics into this... Lol.
Great post, although I think its a little late to change anything:/
__________________
Untouchables#15
velocityiowa.com
Fear Not, For I Am With Thee.
Isaiah 43:5

MIDWEST

Last edited by applejacks! : 11-28-2014 at 10:03 AM.
applejacks! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:05 AM #69
Danny138Von
Danny N. Bergman
 
Danny138Von's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: VSBville, CA
Danny138Von plays in the PSP
Danny138Von plays in the APPA D2 division
We are the future.
__________________
#VSB
Gear Sale!
IG: MrDannyBergman
Danny138Von is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:08 AM #70
YOUNGSTOWN
YOUNGSTOWN CREW
 
YOUNGSTOWN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
 has been a member for 10 years
 plays in the NXL
YOUNGSTOWN supports Ninja Paintball
I agree with Grayson on his views.
I do believe that there is a something missing from players today in general as a whole vs. what you would have seen 10-15 years ago. You just don’t see players acting the same way.

I personally believe a lot of it has to do with several things like the players, the game format itself, the economy, lack of growth in the industry… Really just about everything.
The older guys who were on these original teams were in all fairness, grown men. Most of which went through years of painful struggles that all contributed to the standard we have now.
But…that was 15 years ago… So what changed?

Well for starters, those players got old. No one stays at the top forever. They turned it over to the next generation of younger players. Some of which were influenced by those older players, and some that didn't agree with those older players and decided to go another direction.
I think this is essentially what has happened several time over since the first turn... every generation coming in with less and less from before.
And it just all trickles down the lines to the bottom...
This change can also be contributed to split leagues, changing game formats, economy, lack of growth in the industry...and the list goes on and on.

So who's left at the end ... a handful of veterans that feel they have (and in my opinion do) a desire to play the game to be a champion above all else. So much so that even after a fair career length, postponing starting families, going out in the world and getting real jobs, etc..... in a very physical format we now have still continue to dominate and stand toe to toe their peers that are younger and in some cases physically more able.

The mental attitude, commitment and desire to be the best is still there with some of this generations players. But I think it's so diluted from the masses that you can't see it. It's only in the Pro division it's more clear to see. Those old school ideas and ways of doing things still continue to produce results regardless of the age.

Maybe this is why the PSP Champions and Challengers idea has actually stuck around for a while... It puts the older established talent (the ones influenced by those older players) and organizations to the test against the younger new school and less established organizations who maybe carved out their own way.
__________________
www.dimensionpb.com
Authorized dealer for Dye, Empire, Bob Long, GI Sportz, Virtue and many more!
Follow all SEEDS Series updates here on pbnation or www.seedsseriespaintball.com
YOUNGSTOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:24 AM #71
BaconCHEEZBurger
 
 
BaconCHEEZBurger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodcaptain View Post
Disclaimer: This is just one player's opinion. Feel free to disagree lol. Any players I mention are for example and illustration only to explain my point of view.

I've been playing for almost 20 years, and this post does bring back memories. I remember being a kid, and really relishing the idea of playing professional paintball. I don't want to bore everyone with my underwhelming background, but as I played more and moved up, I realized that being at "professional" paintball player in the late 90's and early 2000's really wasn't professional at all.

Teams were professional because they paid the entry fee to play at that level. Yes, you had some great players come out of that era, and some great teams that built the foundation for the sport as we know it today. They were not, however, required to act like professionals. Many of the players who formed the most recent iteration of tournament paintball pushed to make the sport more athletic, and thus pushed the wallets of many "non-athletic" players out of tournament paintball. Look at magazines from that era, and you'll see some players that these days wouldn't make a roster just based on waistline alone! Those players had tons of money that they were dumping into the tournaments. Not all of them were bad players either. Remember: paintball still requires you to have shooting skills, which isn't denoted by body type.

So, those players are gone from professional tournaments, and so is their money. That money funded great companies like Smart Parts, Dye, WDP, Airgun Designs, and many more. Those companies sponsored teams at the professional level, because they had the cashflow to do so. Teams like Avalanche were funded by non-professional players just trying to get into the tournament scene at the time.

To me this post lacks the definition of what it truly means to be a "professional" paintball player. I know what it means to me, but what does it mean to everyone else?

The players these days act more professional that players in in the past. Is being professional acting more mature?, or is it simply the mental and athletic skill set to play small format paintball (tournaments have shrunk from 15-man and 10 man events down to 5-man)? Much like the NFL, the conduct of players has become more scrutinized, and it has changed the game. Players are watched and penalized for misconduct that used to be acceptable. If you put 15 balls on anyone in a tournament these days, you stand a chance to get penalized for overshooting. That penalty was almost non-existent in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Back in the old days, you could swear at refs, threaten people, and pretty much be a completely horrible person while playing paintball at the "professional" level. I've been around long enough to see it. It was idolized in magazines, and even in the early days of paintball on the internet. You had players with bad boy images, (Chris Lasoya, Frank Connell are a few that come to mind). We have multiple instances of these "old school" players that you mention, who did things that are no longer acceptable. I can look up examples on youtube right now. I could even look up X-Factory tryouts, and your team actually kept some of those "old school" attitudes at an arms distance when reviewing players.

I'm sure those guys were "tough", but the comparisons aren't really apples to apples. They were tough because they didn't have the rules and structure that the game has today. They were "tough" because they did whatever they wanted to do. Today, many of those players would have been penalized, and even suspended/banned from events for some of their actions.

The format of the game has changed, the economy of the world has changed (many people lack the ability to afford the 15bps like the old days), and the overall expectations of players has changed.

I appreciate the overall message in the post, which is meant to push and urge players to step up. My question is why should they? The golden age of free rides (sponsorships) ended in the early 2000s'. Those old school teams used up all of that money.

That "soul" you talk about is from a game that was in its fledgling years. Tournament paintball was young, and a new venture. Now it's been done, and sadly it isn't viewed to be as exciting as it once was. The "soul" was all the new teams and players playing not just national events, but regional and local as well. Gone are the days of 20-30 teams showing up to a local 5-man. You're lucky to get 10.

My challenge would be not to get players to step up to tournaments (yet). My challenge would be to the industry and the players to spread the word about the sport, and get it to grow like it did in the 90's and early 2000's. Only then will you restore that "soul" that you miss.

The game is stagnant because we aren't bringing any more players for you to shoot in the side of the head....

.....or maybe some players are smart enough to know they aren't going to be rewarded enough to get shot in the side of the head?

Again, this is just my opinion.
This.

I remember 10 years ago seeing 15-20 teams. I'm up in WI. The pb scene has been gradually degrading. I started playing paintball with a Tippmann 98 custom against sponsored players using the new DM4's and Intimidators. I remember the first game and not having a clue what I was doing. The players needed a snake runner and gave me some tips on how to run out and to keep my gun on my outside hand and my other hand near my mask. That first game I got into snake clean worked my way up eliminated the opposite snake player and shot out most of the rest of the team from the side. Obviously the next point I got destroyed the other teams snake player ran 50 and watched the gap until I crossed the snake and put it on me. That first game was all I needed for my 12 year old self to experience to know I was hooked.

The thing for me is the big picture is being missed. We have failed to grow paintball as a community. We survived the recession, and I think THIS is the biggest point as to why we've slowed progress. We have failed to achieve outside industry support. We have no real reward for being a pro and devoting the time you guys devote.

What you're saying Grayson is that you expect people to pay 1000$ (equipment paint entry etc) come out get smashed and keep paying 60$ over and over and over again for what? To be pro? Or even to beat the local best team? Paintball needs to be supportive it needs to be sportsmanlike. Drop the bonusballs on the guys who cheat or are bad for the sport.
BaconCHEEZBurger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:27 AM #72
iMPy512
703
 
iMPy512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: 703
 has been a member for 10 years
iMPy512 supports Pev's Paintball
Welcome to the day and age where every kid playing flag football wins a trophy so their feelings aren't hurt... Yes, even that kid on the 1-8 teams. That's really going to motivate him to get better and encourage the best teams to keep trying (who cares if they win if everyone gets the same thing).
iMPy512 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:32 AM #73
JokersWild53
S-Marts Top of the Line
 
JokersWild53's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: G€Ørgîª
 has been a member for 10 years
JokersWild53 plays in the APPA D4 division
Hey, I want to just give props to GraysonG. There have been alot of posing positions and valid points on both sides of the topic. GraysonG has addressed them with a level head and has thus kept this rather interesting topic....on topic.

Usually by now these kind of things turn into a pissing match or somebody getting butt hurt. But, this has remained cordial. nice..
JokersWild53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:33 AM #74
PimpInDistress
11:30
 
PimpInDistress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
 has been a member for 10 years
PimpInDistress plays in the PSP
@ BaconCheeseburger- dude he's said it 100000x's, he is directing this WHOLE post towards the divisional players, he as well as everyone else is aware that paintball has recreational players who have no aspiration of being Pro whatsoever
__________________
MSXL
CEP-2009
BASIC-2008-2011
PBV
PimpInDistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:33 AM #75
iMPy512
703
 
iMPy512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: 703
 has been a member for 10 years
iMPy512 supports Pev's Paintball
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconCHEEZBurger View Post

What you're saying Grayson is that you expect people to pay 1000$ (equipment paint entry etc) come out get smashed and keep paying 60$ over and over and over again for what? To be pro?
Sounds like it. You don't get better by sitting at home.
I don't see how this is any different then those who want to play professional football flying to clinics to get better and potentially have a scout see them, or playing travel baseball on top of high school baseball to learn something new and work with better coaches.
iMPy512 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 11:39 AM #76
Skipdogg
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Milwaukee Area
I'm not sure being a D-Bag means you have soul.
It might just mean your a D-Bag.



My first 'Pro' experience was in 1991 with SWARM. They had just won the 1990 Master's and were at the top of the heap. They were so kind, awesome, helpful, normal, etc. Great group of guys. I have NO DOUBT i still play 25 years later due in part to them. If they were putting 15 shots into the back of my head,......well... I probably would be telling you right now and anyone that would have listened to me over the last 25 years that they were D-Bags.

So in summary, maybe be careful what you wish for....
Skipdogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 11:52 AM #77
bioship paladin
 
 
bioship paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Georgia
Do many text
bioship paladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:05 PM #78
GraysonG
aka George Ocean
 
GraysonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Austin, TX
 has been a member for 10 years
GraysonG is a Professional paintball player
GraysonG owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
GraysonG plays in the APPA Pro division
Quote:
Originally Posted by JokersWild53 View Post
Hey, I want to just give props to GraysonG. There have been alot of posing positions and valid points on both sides of the topic. GraysonG has addressed them with a level head and has thus kept this rather interesting topic....on topic.

Usually by now these kind of things turn into a pissing match or somebody getting butt hurt. But, this has remained cordial. nice..
I welcome people playing devil's advocate. I usually love playing that role as well.

I want you guys to remember this wasn't a letter to every up and coming player. They may not have decided whether they just want to get better or if they want to play at the highest level. This message is only for those who currently strive to one of the greatest players in the world.

If you're trying to pick my argument apart, the message wasn't for you. You're probably not ready yet. I will continue to encourage players and give pats on the back. If you read it and said "**** Grayson, He's old slow and doesn't deserve his spot" then it was meant for you.

Am I gonna go out next weekend and bonus ball every kid I shoot. Hell no, but when I see a kid with that fire, I'm going to give him 15 reasons why he should take my spot.
__________________
George Ocean
BKi_ Paintball
San Antonio X-Factor
BKiTk
GraysonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:07 PM #79
inferno2inferno
 
 
inferno2inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
I see this trend all the time in kids I teach lifeguarding and first aid to as well as in paintball. I was brought up by hard instructors who told me the facts: if I screwed up in a rescue situation, someone could get hurt or worse. When I try to communicate the same to my students I get in trouble for it. Its almost as though feedback of any kind is not allowed unless it is sugarcoated in the extreme.
__________________
You do not know what you do not know
inferno2inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:11 PM #80
GraysonG
aka George Ocean
 
GraysonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Austin, TX
 has been a member for 10 years
GraysonG is a Professional paintball player
GraysonG owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
GraysonG plays in the APPA Pro division
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconCHEEZBurger View Post
The thing for me is the big picture is being missed. We have failed to grow paintball as a community. We survived the recession, and I think THIS is the biggest point as to why we've slowed progress. We have failed to achieve outside industry support. We have no real reward for being a pro and devoting the time you guys devote.

What you're saying Grayson is that you expect people to pay 1000$ (equipment paint entry etc) come out get smashed and keep paying 60$ over and over and over again for what? To be pro? Or even to beat the local best team? Paintball needs to be supportive it needs to be sportsmanlike. Drop the bonusballs on the guys who cheat or are bad for the sport.
I'm currently involved in the growing the paintball community. I was given that opportunity by Rab and Greg Pauley to help with the AXBL. Guys please remember this is not for everyone. I will continue to be a positive influence for 90% of the paintball population because in the end this game is just too damn fun.

I'm saying that if you want to be best, you have to pull motivation from all the positive AND negative experiences in your life to reach that level. I hopefully provided a negative experience to those WHO NEED IT and WANT IT.
__________________
George Ocean
BKi_ Paintball
San Antonio X-Factor
BKiTk

Last edited by GraysonG : 11-28-2014 at 12:15 PM.
GraysonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:13 PM #81
txfire01
 
txfire01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
txfire01 is a Professional paintball player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny138Von View Post
We are the future.
in our d1 season grayson wrote "I'm the ****ing future" above his name on the back of his jersey.

Maybe you're what he was looking for.
__________________
X-Factor
B.K.I.T.
Ryan Brand
txfire01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:15 PM #82
teamaddicted
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas, TX.
 has been a member for 10 years
Grayson,

Name the time and place and I'll be more than happy to shoot you 5 times in the face and then lay another 15-20 balls in your back as you walk off the field... and then you can say THANK YOU

From your BFF

The guy below is the $HIT and knows what he's talking about!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Knop View Post
Nick,

Back when that picture was taken I was 37 years old. I could run 5 miles and trained in the gym 5 days a week. The majority of the guys on our team other than maybe Ed and myself had world class speed.

Now the troubling part for me that I don't understand is why you'd have to train 3 - 4 times a week? The fields are the all the same and everyone plays the same. You live behind guns that are super fast that don't break paint. You run what, 10 yards to get to the snake, try and make it to the dorito without getting shot, move up, get an angle, put a guy and then go bunker him and try not to get penalties.

I'm not trying to bust your balls, but yes the game has changed, it's removed all the creativity out of it and turned players into drones.

Just my 2 cents.
Exactly
teamaddicted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:17 PM #83
GraysonG
aka George Ocean
 
GraysonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Austin, TX
 has been a member for 10 years
GraysonG is a Professional paintball player
GraysonG owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
GraysonG plays in the APPA Pro division
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipdogg View Post
I'm not sure being a D-Bag means you have soul.
It might just mean your a D-Bag.



My first 'Pro' experience was in 1991 with SWARM. They had just won the 1990 Master's and were at the top of the heap. They were so kind, awesome, helpful, normal, etc. Great group of guys. I have NO DOUBT i still play 25 years later due in part to them. If they were putting 15 shots into the back of my head,......well... I probably would be telling you right now and anyone that would have listened to me over the last 25 years that they were D-Bags.

So in summary, maybe be careful what you wish for....
You guys seem to be missing the point. I've clarified my position throughout this thread. I'm not going to be the bitter old pro bonus balling every kid that steps on the field.
__________________
George Ocean
BKi_ Paintball
San Antonio X-Factor
BKiTk
GraysonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 12:19 PM #84
GraysonG
aka George Ocean
 
GraysonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Austin, TX
 has been a member for 10 years
GraysonG is a Professional paintball player
GraysonG owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
GraysonG plays in the APPA Pro division
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamaddicted View Post
Grayson,

Name the time and place and I'll be more than happy to shoot you 5 times in the face and then lay another 15-20 balls in your back as you walk off the field... and then you can say THANK YOU

From your BFF

The guy below is the $HIT and knows what he's talking about!



Exactly
I'd like to thank Texas Storm, Brotherhood, Team Addicted, Fuel, Mox Nix, The Garcia brothers, and Greg Pauley (I'm sure there's a few more I'm forgetting) because at one point I hated your mother****ers more than anyone. You made me who I am today.
__________________
George Ocean
BKi_ Paintball
San Antonio X-Factor
BKiTk

Last edited by GraysonG : 11-28-2014 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Can't forget about Brotherhood!
GraysonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump