[CARLOSV2]

how about both leagues merge but all the venues are the same just under one name so if you like semi you would play hb and if you like to ramp then you may play phoenix but everything would be just one league .

[WCE]

Making videos myself, the only to make paintball attractive on TV would be to film a game, edit it with all the proper angles to get the feeling of the game, put some comments about the tactics and strategies and then air it.

You would need helmet cams on players and cameras on markers with additional stationary cameras in strategic locations. I dont think having a cameraman running around would be cool.

That would be very time consuming and I dont think someone would like to pay the amount of money for this kind of endeavour.

This would be the BEST way to really get the sport out there.

[gunslinger84]

There is a difference between a monopoly and a coercive monopoly, westside.

[RBN]

Paintball isn't big because it is not a "spectator" sport...It's difficult to watch in any format...including "speedball", which doesn't interest me n the slightest bit.

[Rocburn]

I think the sheer cost alone is what keeps players away from it. To me, the less players you have, the less popular the sport is, and the less people are interested.

[Soul06]

Paintball is a very large sport for one that is so young. Its barely 30 years old and already has millions of regular players. One of the top extreme sports in the world.
Exactly what are y'all looking for? The sport hasn't even been around long enough to have passed it down past one generation.

[Racso]

Not much of a spectator sport. Speedball is the most watchable out of all of them, and it is hard to watch for outsiders. For players you know what is going on and what to watch, otherwise it can be hard to watch and enjoy.

Unknown for outsiders. Most people immediately think of milsim when they think of paintball. This also makes it seem immature. Telling someone you play paintball or telling them you LARP usually get the same response. "Oh really... that's, uh, cool..."

Chaotic rules. 15 bps semi or 13/12.5/12 bps PSP or 15 auto or whatever, too many rules. There needs to be one standard across the board, or at least more consistent for the different formats. Woodsball is X, Speedball is Y, and Recball is Z. Rules need to condensed so that there is the standard.

Once these things come together, then everything else can start falling in place, such as more publicity and television time.

[Soul06]

Originally Posted by Racso

Not much of a spectator sport. Speedball is the most watchable out of all of them, and it is hard to watch for outsiders. For players you know what is going on and what to watch, otherwise it can be hard to watch and enjoy.

Unknown for outsiders. Most people immediately think of milsim when they think of paintball. This also makes it seem immature. Telling someone you play paintball or telling them you LARP usually get the same response. "Oh really... that's, uh, cool..."

Chaotic rules. 15 bps semi or 13/12.5/12 bps PSP or 15 auto or whatever, too many rules. There needs to be one standard across the board, or at least more consistent for the different formats. Woodsball is X, Speedball is Y, and Recball is Z. Rules need to condensed so that there is the standard.

Once these things come together, then everything else can start falling in place, such as more publicity and television time.

You forgot to mention the competing, almost rival, leagues.
These things keep paintball, particularly speedball, from growing like it could.

[Racso]

Originally Posted by Soul06

You forgot to mention the competing, almost rival, leagues.
These things keep paintball, particularly speedball, from growing like it could.

That is what I was talking about with all the different rules. However, we all know NPPL is all but dead. I would have preferred they merged to make one big league. If there was one US league, imagine how easy it would be for Millennium to work with it!

[Soul06]

Originally Posted by Racso

That is what I was talking about with all the different rules. However, we all know NPPL is all but dead. I would have preferred they merged to make one big league. If there was one US league, imagine how easy it would be for Millennium to work with it!

True but not only that. I truly believe that if there was a singular league we would see more companies invest money and sponsorship into paintball. Picture companies like Nike, Under Armour, Oakley or any of these other athletic mega companies creating paintball soft goods (jerseys, pants, cleats, goggles, etc).

[Racso]

Originally Posted by Soul06

True but not only that. I truly believe that if there was a singular league we would see more companies invest money and sponsorship into paintball. Picture companies like Nike, Under Armour, Oakley or any of these other athletic mega companies creating paintball soft goods (jerseys, pants, cleats, goggles, etc).

Indeed, having mainstream companies involved would give paintball a HUGE boost.

Also, I've also wonder how much the paintball companies spend for each league. For example, lets say DYE spends $100,000 in both US leagues, that is $200,000. But if there was only 1 league, they could then spend $150,000 in one league, and bank $50,000. That is a win/win. DYE get better advertising and they save money.

They could also combine with other companies to advertise to non paintballers as a whole. Lets say 5 major companies threw in $20,000 (which they could pick up from their savings from one league dropping out) into a pot for a total of $100,000 that could be used to advertise together to grow the sport! Hell, use that money to put World Cup on mainstream TV, at a reasonable hour.

Also, while I'm talking about TV, let's talk about paintball "shows" (like BTB and watching tourneys on PBA). Specifically, the commentary. Does anyone else feel like these people are very unprofessional and very-by-and-for paintballers? For example, at work the other day I had Behind the Bunker running in a background window and was listening, and while it was fine for me to listen to, I would have been embarrassed to try and have my wife watch it with me. Whenever I heard swearing, I felt like I was listening to a freshmen in highschool swearing; you know what I mean, using the words to feel big and all-grown up... Some of the tangents they went on were just awkward, so on and so forth.

On the other hand, a show like Top-Gear I have no issue with my wife watching. Yes I know, I'm trying to compare $millions budget BBC show with a garage show, but hear me out. She has absolutely no care for cars (it is actually sad how little she cars about cars ), but she doesn't make fun of me watching that, however I feel like she would with many paintball shows. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I hope so because I don't know if I do any more...

[Soul06]

I understand where you are going with that. Now if only we could convince the pro teams and league officials of the benefits of merging. Seems that they are more concerned with keeping things their way instead of doing what would be better for the sport

[BigdavePNW]

All I can say is it is a lot bigger from when I used to play to now.... it is growing but won't become as popular as football or baseball.... sad

[Burki]

Well the recession probably had a pretty big hit on the sport, but also its now looked at as a kids sport. And adults are the ones who can really afford to buy gear and go play, but they see it as a sport that is made for kids

[Soul06]

Originally Posted by Burki

Well the recession probably had a pretty big hit on the sport, but also its now looked at as a kids sport. And adults are the ones who can really afford to buy gear and go play, but they see it as a sport that is made for kids

Not entirely true. Perhaps in certain regions but around where I am that's not the perception. The sport is played more by people 18-25 (maybe 30) range followed by 30+ players. Kids aren't the majority that I see

[SNAKESNIPER (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Racso

They could also combine with other companies to advertise to non paintballers as a whole. Lets say 5 major companies threw in $20,000 (which they could pick up from their savings from one league dropping out) into a pot for a total of $100,000 that could be used to advertise together to grow the sport! Hell, use that money to put World Cup on mainstream TV, at a reasonable hour.

That's not the way it works.

Whether or not a program is put in a prime timeslot has more to do with advertising dollars. No matter how much money the producers "put in a pot", if they can't convince a TV network that it will appeal to many key demographics (ie: the ones the companies buying ad time are trying to sell products to), then paintball won't be seen as commercially viable. This is why whenever paintball is seen on TV, it's very late at night.

[Racso]

Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER

That's not the way it works.

Whether or not a program is put in a prime timeslot has more to do with advertising dollars. No matter how much money the producers "put in a pot", if they can't convince a TV network that it will appeal to many key demographics (ie: the ones the companies buying ad time are trying to sell products to), then paintball won't be seen as commercially viable. This is why whenever paintball is seen on TV, it's very late at night.

Unless they bought the time as one long-*** commercial...

Not to mention, they would have to put it on when there really wasn't much on TV anyway. Paintball as it is couldn't compete with more mainstream shows, but when channels are showing re-runs or just trying to fill slots, it is a possibility.

[masher1]

Paintball is not as big as other sports because ( not in order)

1. Cost to play- expensive to go every weekend and play, it is not like you pick up your marker and go shoot outside ( Not everyone has access or has a large piece of land to go shoot into), anyone can go play football at a park, or basketball at a court.

If someone here can tell me that they go every weekend and pay $100 every time they play, you are the minority. Even $35 is a stretch for many.

2. General population do not understand the concept of the game. Ask someone what they think about Paintball and many give you a blank or some weak idea about the sport. We have a weak marketing system in place.
3, These super markers that stated coming out killed many of the new kids coming into trying paintball because so many Parents-lacked disciplining their kids about respect for other people and the paintball industry selling these markers like every paintball player wanted to Speed-ball everyone.. some players would come by and kill you with these super markers and the new kid on the block would probably never come back again. Reason why the new rules about BPS. It did hurt the game, I saw it coming but where were the Pro Players? Did any say something? The companies say something? oh wait, they created the super markers...EGO/GREED
4. EGO- too much in this game for it being so new, if only the Paintball Industry would show some responsibility about the game and improving it... it was already too late for many... So many companies are gone because so many were greedy and wanted to fight for every inch when the big picture should of been, what can we do to improve the sport. Autococker for example would sell you a gun without a reg, without so many components that you needed to buy on top of the $400 for the gun. My first WGP was in 1997. They are out for poor management. Look at professional sports, Just not the same anymore. Money is good to make but also Evil that can kill many good things.
3. Speedball whether you like it or not, caters to the people who do play Paintball most in leagues day in day out either at a local field or one of those NPPL whatever gigs. How many times do you see your parents ( for you kids out there) playing football day in day out or basketball or Hockey? Not many. The sports we watch, we watch. I watch basketball and I play probably once every month. It is cheap. Paintball is not. A game of Speed-ball ends in 5-10 minutes, what professional sport end in 10 min that did not confuse you?

4. Too many processes in this game. It is not simple
5. Fields need to be more creative- we have no field systems in place other then a speed-ball bunkers course. It would not matter what system if the sport was more understanding but fields need to start thinking out of the box.

6.Paintball industry need to help the fields cater to the walk-ons, The Pow wow reservation groups. They bring in more revenue to fields then us. Look who your audience is in pro sports...not just players but the x players, the families, the ones who buy the tickets and spend the money. A healthy field keeps going, the more they bring in "newbies" or whatever , the better it is for you and me and the sport.
7. EGO

As an example of sportmanship, I went out to play one day and saw a bunch of walk on kids playing for a birthday. Instead of playing, I put my marker aside, I mentored them, gave the leadership, show them how hard it is for someone to shoot you at over 50 yards while running to a bunker. They gain confidence and had a blast. I also taught them to respect others and enjoy the sport, don't let get to your heads like some coaches do with their players ( I have kids who play sports and some coaches are idiots). I had one kid with a super marker go full auto and I simply explain the effects it can have on the new "kids on the block". I hope he learned something...

The sport will last not with existing players but with every new generation that comes every year. The paintball industry will have to figure how to make this a true game and simple to understand. I bought my son the .50 cal splast-master system and he likes it...maybe we are heading that direction. Do not know.

When paintball came out on cable, My family thought it was confusing, My dad shut it out in 5 minutes and he likes action sports. Let Milsim, Woods-ball and all sort of new ideas come to the game. If Oklahoma D-Day can bring in 6500+ players to one game, let it be. Maybe that is the way to bring Paintball to the next level. We have to think outside the box and not let our own emotions take over just because we play a different style game.

Player since 95.
This was written not to offend any one or hurt somebody. It was my own few two cents and I only care that this sport gets stronger every year.

[Big Papa Pink]

Originally Posted by masher1

Paintball is not as big as other sports because ( not in order)

1. Cost to play- expensive to go every weekend and play, it is not like you pick up your marker and go shoot outside ( Not everyone has access or has a large piece of land to go shoot into), anyone can go play football at a park, or basketball at a court.

If someone here can tell me that they go every weekend and pay $100 every time they play, you are the minority. Even $35 is a stretch for many.

2. General population do not understand the concept of the game. Ask someone what they think about Paintball and many give you a blank or some weak idea about the sport. We have a weak marketing system in place.
3, These super markers that stated coming out killed many of the new kids coming into trying paintball because so many Parents-lacked disciplining their kids about respect for other people and the paintball industry selling these markers like every paintball player wanted to Speed-ball everyone.. some players would come by and kill you with these super markers and the new kid on the block would probably never come back again. Reason why the new rules about BPS. It did hurt the game, I saw it coming but where were the Pro Players? Did any say something? The companies say something? oh wait, they created the super markers...EGO/GREED
4. EGO- too much in this game for it being so new, if only the Paintball Industry would show some responsibility about the game and improving it... it was already too late for many... So many companies are gone because so many were greedy and wanted to fight for every inch when the big picture should of been, what can we do to improve the sport. Autococker for example would sell you a gun without a reg, without so many components that you needed to buy on top of the $400 for the gun. My first WGP was in 1997. They are out for poor management. Look at professional sports, Just not the same anymore. Money is good to make but also Evil that can kill many good things.
3. Speedball whether you like it or not, caters to the people who do play Paintball most in leagues day in day out either at a local field or one of those NPPL whatever gigs. How many times do you see your parents ( for you kids out there) playing football day in day out or basketball or Hockey? Not many. The sports we watch, we watch. I watch basketball and I play probably once every month. It is cheap. Paintball is not. A game of Speed-ball ends in 5-10 minutes, what professional sport end in 10 min that did not confuse you?

4. Too many processes in this game. It is not simple
5. Fields need to be more creative- we have no field systems in place other then a speed-ball bunkers course. It would not matter what system if the sport was more understanding but fields need to start thinking out of the box.

6.Paintball industry need to help the fields cater to the walk-ons, The Pow wow reservation groups. They bring in more revenue to fields then us. Look who your audience is in pro sports...not just players but the x players, the families, the ones who buy the tickets and spend the money. A healthy field keeps going, the more they bring in "newbies" or whatever , the better it is for you and me and the sport.
7. EGO

As an example of sportmanship, I went out to play one day and saw a bunch of walk on kids playing for a birthday. Instead of playing, I put my marker aside, I mentored them, gave the leadership, show them how hard it is for someone to shoot you at over 50 yards while running to a bunker. They gain confidence and had a blast. I also taught them to respect others and enjoy the sport, don't let get to your heads like some coaches do with their players ( I have kids who play sports and some coaches are idiots). I had one kid with a super marker go full auto and I simply explain the effects it can have on the new "kids on the block". I hope he learned something...

The sport will last not with existing players but with every new generation that comes every year. The paintball industry will have to figure how to make this a true game and simple to understand. I bought my son the .50 cal splast-master system and he likes it...maybe we are heading that direction. Do not know.

When paintball came out on cable, My family thought it was confusing, My dad shut it out in 5 minutes and he likes action sports. Let Milsim, Woods-ball and all sort of new ideas come to the game. If Oklahoma D-Day can bring in 6500+ players to one game, let it be. Maybe that is the way to bring Paintball to the next level. We have to think outside the box and not let our own emotions take over just because we play a different style game.

Player since 95.
This was written not to offend any one or hurt somebody. It was my own few two cents and I only care that this sport gets stronger every year.

1. Not sure I buy the cost argument. Have you seen the cost of Hockey Equipment or Golf Clubs? A good set of gear for ether sport will set you back as much or more than paintball. They both also have ongoing fees similar to playing paintball twice a month or more. I also play golf about once a week and that is $50 in greens fees or more each time out. Paintball twice a month is less expensive for me than Golf is. I would say paintball is on par with the more expensive pastime pursuits but so is Golf; Golf is HUGELY popular even though it can be very expensive.

2. Paintball has been vilified in the press and there is not a strong advocacy group to counter the bad press, so naturally you are right that most uninformed people will have an incorrect view of the game.

3 and 4: So you blame greedy corporations? Neither the markers they produce or they company themselves are to blame. We need only look in the mirror.

So the second set of 3 and 4:
Hockey can be hard to follow for those who don't know the game. All it takes is a little education. Again, paintball lacks a strong advocacy group.

5 and 6: totally agree, and here in Colorado some are doing just that.

7: See the the first set of 3 and 4.

Honestly, Paintball needs a strong advocacy group that will promote the game and the ideals that honorable players strive for. Until Paintball can shake the negative view may people have of our sport, it will continue to grow slowly. It is up to each of us to do our part and introduce new players to the sport in a way that will allow them to enjoy it.
Been playing and enjoying paintball since 1992. Both of us have seen the game change quite a bit, and I think in may ways for the better.

[Soul06]

Originally Posted by masher1

Paintball is not as big as other sports because ( not in order)

you make some good points but there are a few things I disagree with and others I need a bit of clarification on.

2. General population do not understand the concept of the game. Ask someone what they think about Paintball and many give you a blank or some weak idea about the sport. We have a weak marketing system in place.

I dont generally agree here. This may be more of a issue based off of location. I generally find that the average person, many of those who have never even played yet, have a basic understanding of the sport and how it works.

3, These super markers that stated coming out killed many of the new kids coming into trying paintball because so many Parents-lacked disciplining their kids about respect for other people and the paintball industry selling these markers like every paintball player wanted to Speed-ball everyone.. some players would come by and kill you with these super markers and the new kid on the block would probably never come back again. Reason why the new rules about BPS. It did hurt the game, I saw it coming but where were the Pro Players? Did any say something? The companies say something? oh wait, they created the super markers...EGO/GREED

Really disagree here. Many low-end companies are just as guilty. People far to often make the assumption that high end markers are the only fast shooters and its because of them that new kids aren't coming into the sport. But the truth is Tippmann, Spyder and other low ends have been adding to the high BPS problem as well. No they aren't doing the 20+ bps but 15bps is bad enough. In many cases they do more harm because they actually enable their markers to go full auto. The high end markers still require consistent trigger pulls to sustain the high rates of fire. Even on ramping.

4. EGO- too much in this game for it being so new, if only the Paintball Industry would show some responsibility about the game and improving it... it was already too late for many... So many companies are gone because so many were greedy and wanted to fight for every inch when the big picture should of been, what can we do to improve the sport. Autococker for example would sell you a gun without a reg, without so many components that you needed to buy on top of the $400 for the gun. My first WGP was in 1997. They are out for poor management. Look at professional sports, Just not the same anymore. Money is good to make but also Evil that can kill many good things.

Not really sure where you are going with this one. I dont see any companies really selling markers that require additional components just to work. At least not any more. I think companies are trying to aid the sport buy offering higher quality equpiment at lower prices. Back when i came into paintball (2001) there still was no real "mid range" markers. It was either low-end or high end. But there days you can get plenty of quality for lower cost. And I'm talking new not used. Used does nothing to help the industry.

4. Too many processes in this game. It is not simple
5. Fields need to be more creative- we have no field systems in place other then a speed-ball bunkers course. It would not matter what system if the sport was more understanding but fields need to start thinking out of the box.

Really confused here. What do you mean by "too many processes"? And I don't think I am understanding what you mean when you say "we have no field systems in place other then a speed-ball bunkers course". Are you saying that all you see in terms of fields is either speedball bunkers or All-woods fields? If so you are missing out on many extremely creative fields that are and have been out there for a long while now.

6.Paintball industry need to help the fields cater to the walk-ons, The Pow wow reservation groups. They bring in more revenue to fields then us. Look who your audience is in pro sports...not just players but the x players, the families, the ones who buy the tickets and spend the money. A healthy field keeps going, the more they bring in "newbies" or whatever , the better it is for you and me and the sport.

I do agree in part but i would change it a bit. Catering to walk-ons isn't the problem because technically outside of tourny play we are all walk-ons. Even private groups are technically walk-ons. I've been playing 11 years now and if I drive up to a field I am still just another walk-on.
Paintball needs to cater to the new players and attract people to try the sport out. Needs to figure out a more efficient want of drawing out those who have never tried the sport

[Sovereign797]

There's a lot of good points in this thread.

Paintball is hard to watch - 5 guys hiding behind bunkers shooting across the field is boring to watch and hard to get good camera angles and shots of hits. Movement doesn't happen very much, and movement is the best part of the game to see.

People need to see points and objectives. Almost every sport has a goal. Get object through a hoop, into an endzone, into a net. Paintball has people eliminating each other in ways you couldn't see.

There's no offense/defense. In every team game there is offense/defense. 1 flag CTF is not good enough. How can we add an objective without turning into american gladiators with paint?

Too many different rules. Yep. 1st, wtf auto? No. 2nd, wtf ramping? really? I have two problems with ramping. If you can't fire 12.5 bps, you're not a pro. The other is we're capping part of our 'professional' athletes skill. I want to see these guys ripping at 20 bps if they can and decide the situation needs it. Michael Jordan never held back, why do we?