[D3AGL3_PBALLER]

Originally Posted by Impact Ir3 03

I Said you should take out D4-D5 even D3 leave it as D2 and better. All these divisions are bull**** anyways. You want to get better play better teams. Why and in fact practice better teams. If you cant play at that level then dont play its not like your hurting these tournaments being that how many teams showed up to play in the USPL. You have a pump division who gives a **** about pump. Go play in the woods. There just costing themselves more money. Make it simple if its too start off with. Meaning, as everyone is saying its the beginning ok if it is. Have Pro, Semi, D1, D2 get started there and then move on too other divisions if needed. But if you can't fill 20 spots then what point would a D3 serve. I rather go to a tournament and play better teams and if I lose I do but atleast I know I'm getting better. So when I go home and play local I've made myself better.

Are you serious? The teams that play pump are probably as consistent about attendind these tournaments as the PRO teams. I would venture to say that the pump division is the only division that consistently delivers a set amount of teams. We travel cross country consistently to attend. Jacksonville, St. Louis, Dallas, Sacramento, Las Vegas, WHATEVER! We play ball, and if you ever doubt it, you can bring your team into our division and test it for yourself. There is no rookie division for pump, you start at PRO.

The lower division teams are what carry a tournament series. For the most part (dont know what happened this last event) tournament series have 4-5 times more teams in D3 than in any other division. They are usually the ones paying the bills. This year the problem is sponsorships. Companies are cutting down so much they are making it so that teams cant play. Specifically in the paint industry. Getting a paint sponsor isnt anywhere near as easy as it used to be, not that it ever has been.

[rdny]

There are a ton of issus to address here... to get to a few of them the industry really took a hit when the NPPL decided to file BK. The league really changed a few years before that when the HB event and the NPPL raised the prices across the board. The years previous HB and other events sold out in hours. After the prices were raise the numbers started the drop off. This could have also been the start of the weaking economy that none of us or the industry saw coming. If people remember at that time the NPPL was king the 7-man format was on top and the PSP was going to fall apart.
The NPPL sold to the Pacific group and they spent money like our government is right now. The money on rent, salaries, office funiture and so many other items was out of control. In hind site if they had of run the company on a budget and worked more with the players and teams they might have still been around. However they were blinded by the dreams and hopes of a TV deal or some super buyout by a big company paying millions. (Any one heard this story before?)
The PSP could have in the off season capitalized on the implosion of the NPPL and gone to 6 events (3-ball and 3 7-man) this would have stopped anyone else from starting anything up.
Teams could have competed in both formats and those that could only afford one series would have been happy that they had a choice of format.
In the end there are people that like both formats the industry should support people playing paintball and not what format they choose.
Whether you play 7-man, X-ball, or scenario the manufactures should realize and focus on the product that they manufacture not a format or league. You sell more guns because you support your customers.
Also kind of funny to make a gun that shoots 28BPS and a loader that feeds 40BPS then support a league where you cap everything at 12BPS

Anyways I know I am starting to get off the subject. The main guys behind the USPL want the league to succeed and the players to be happy with the league. This is just the start of this league and in one of the toughest economic times in the US. If you guys remember the original NPPL league start of 1993 you can see the similiarities and know that they will eventually get over the hump and move the league in the right direction. You just have to get it a chnace.

Also players in all divisions espically the "PRO" divsion have to check their attitudes at the door and realize that they play a game because it is something they love to do and are never going to make a living at just playing this sport. Sure there are a few guys that will but they won't retire from playing and never have to work a day in their lives again.

[FatalKitty]

OK regarding Impacts idea of cutting out the lower divisions:
there needs to be lower divisions for teams to participate and for new teams to spring up and play the format.not only that, but the large number of lower division teams is were the league even gets the majority of it's revenue...

[rdny]

lower teams have to be kept around. How else will you grow any league without lower division teams?

[1stGenRex]

Originally Posted by rdny

lower teams have to be kept around. How else will you grow any league without lower division teams?

exactly, and to even think of it otherwise is just plain stupid.

[Impact Ir3 03]

then keep lower division teams in local events. The Uspl or Psp should be for teams that qualify to play at that certain degree. I don't see how must of you people are disagreeing with that. It's funny a majority of the teams that wind up playing d3 are capable of playing d1 d2 so lets really get the facts straight here.
But division 3 is fine I have no problem with it. The only reason i said get rid of it now because we dont have enough teams playing now whats the point of having 10 teams to a event? so the top 8 can advance how can you get better by doing that. Please someone tell me how you can get better?

And when the NPPL first started the divisions where
Rookie
Novice
Amateur
Pro

So it was adding and adding when it actually grew and they changed the format to what it was present

[1stGenRex]

you didn't answer my question...did you play USPL?

[Impact Ir3 03]

being that the events have been in Cali no i havent. Have I played in NPPL yes

[1stGenRex]

there were a lot of non-cali teams. Seems like you are *****ing just for the sake of *****ing, as I doubt you were even THERE to comment on what the WCO was even like

[pb_king]

i seems like the refs were out to screw the d1 and pro cali teams

[Johnny5072]

Originally Posted by rdny

lower teams have to be kept around. How else will you grow any league without lower division teams?

Hey Rodney, what about having all divisions, except pro, compete in feeder series or regionals? It seems like with the way the sport is evolving in these tough economic times, it makes sense to shorten the amount of days in an event and have the teams use the national event as like a Paintball Finals or World Cup. I might not totally understand the situation here, but it seems if you lined up regional events, through feeder series or local series, you could take the best out of those events and bring them to the larger national event. I mean instead of having to run three or four full days of play on multiple fields you could have just two main fields running the "playoff" games.
I know back when 7man was king everyone could make it to all the events because they were looking to get the points to win the NPPL championship.

Now with money being tight, wouldn't it make more sense to partner with local series and promoters to hold those events which determine who gets to play at the national event?

It would bring the meaning back to having large national events because that would be where the best of the best would play. Also I would think you could do it to where you could focus the limited amount of time, energy, and money into one or two great events instead of spreading everything so thin.

You could almost make it an East vs West kind of thing as well. Have the Pros play at both the East and West Finals, and then bring everyone together at a World Cup type event. Vendors and Sponsors can get the most bang for their buck by showing up to the place that will give them the most exposure and players and teams will be able to save their money until they need to travel to the Regional Finals and then on to the National.

You could address the reffing issues by having clinics like you do now and get some skilled people on the sidelines to ref the calls. Heck in the heyday of NPPL their were 6 fields of refs, so I am sure we can find some folks who have done it or are willing to learn to get better. Then you bring the best refs you can to the Regional Finals and National event.

I know this may be wishful thinking and I am sure there is something I am missing, but in a player run league like the USPL, wouldn't this work?

[WillyW0nka]

Originally Posted by Johnny5072

Hey Rodney, what about having all divisions, except pro, compete in feeder series or regionals? It seems like with the way the sport is evolving in these tough economic times, it makes sense to shorten the amount of days in an event and have the teams use the national event as like a Paintball Finals or World Cup. I might not totally understand the situation here, but it seems if you lined up regional events, through feeder series or local series, you could take the best out of those events and bring them to the larger national event. I mean instead of having to run three or four full days of play on multiple fields you could have just two main fields running the "playoff" games.
I know back when 7man was king everyone could make it to all the events because they were looking to get the points to win the NPPL championship.

Now with money being tight, wouldn't it make more sense to partner with local series and promoters to hold those events which determine who gets to play at the national event?

It would bring the meaning back to having large national events because that would be where the best of the best would play. Also I would think you could do it to where you could focus the limited amount of time, energy, and money into one or two great events instead of spreading everything so thin.

You could almost make it an East vs West kind of thing as well. Have the Pros play at both the East and West Finals, and then bring everyone together at a World Cup type event. Vendors and Sponsors can get the most bang for their buck by showing up to the place that will give them the most exposure and players and teams will be able to save their money until they need to travel to the Regional Finals and then on to the National.

You could address the reffing issues by having clinics like you do now and get some skilled people on the sidelines to ref the calls. Heck in the heyday of NPPL their were 6 fields of refs, so I am sure we can find some folks who have done it or are willing to learn to get better. Then you bring the best refs you can to the Regional Finals and National event.

I know this may be wishful thinking and I am sure there is something I am missing, but in a player run league like the USPL, wouldn't this work?

So you mean like have different regional series, then the top teams from each region play at a national World Cup-type event? Should help to shorten the length of the national event (2 days instead of 4), and it would definitely help vendors if they weren't paying to attend 4 USPL and 4 PSP events every year. Would also be nice for teams to have the option of playing an entire series without having to throw down for a plane ticket, rental car and hotel for every single event. Though I like the idea of having one region vs. another, I think it may be better if there were more than just 2.

[poso]

Reading all of this stuff and being somewhat new to the tourny scene and owning a field and trying to promote tourny ball because I really enjoy watching it and I think it is a great sport for young kids.We now have the two leagues one for advanced players being the WCPPL.For the younger more inexperienced players with limited cash or kids depending on there parents the RPL would be best for them.I think if all the players will go to one or the other I think it would be a good start to healing paintball thru out the state.

[1stGenRex]

Originally Posted by poso

Reading all of this stuff and being somewhat new to the tourny scene and owning a field and trying to promote tourny ball because I really enjoy watching it and I think it is a great sport for young kids.We now have the two leagues one for advanced players being the WCPPL.For the younger more inexperienced players with limited cash or kids depending on there parents the RPL would be best for them.I think if all the players will go to one or the other I think it would be a good start to healing paintball thru out the state.

you are absolutely wrong. what makes the WCPPL more for "advance players" than the RPL does? IF ANYTHING the WCPPL is better at making it more beginner friendly because they use the APPA, not some bull**** ID Pro system that one one else uses.

Also, what do you win as a lower division team if you win an RPL event?

[poso]

Ive just always called shawn and gave him my credit card number so it was pretty easy.Kids tend to keep three man teams or even five man teams together easier than seven man teams.Last year I spent $20,000 on a seven man team this year Ill spend $5,000 and I am helping two teams.Hey it sounds like you wont be happy untill I say the RPL is S#$T and The wcppl is the best So Ill see if I cant get a team together for the next wcppl to make you happy.Ive put dozens of kids in tournaments who would have never been able to play without my support.Iam just glad there are some leagues left that bakersfield kids can afford.If tourny ball was all about what you won why are these guys even playing pro ball they make just a little more than dish washers if even that.

[1stGenRex]

paintball is not about what you win, but in reality, winning is nice, and winning and getting CASH for it is even nicer.

I really don't care about the RPL one way or another, I'm just speaking from experience in playing t he WCPPL. You would be hard pressed to find another series that is more supported by the players than you will with the WCPPL.

Just look at it this way,

have you seen a thread like this complaining about the WCPPL?

enough said.

[FatalKitty]

OK so we should eliminate the lower divisions? and make regional series feeder events for one big USPL event? so then where are the pros going to play? The pro's can't all play each other in each region... they have to play everywhere just like the rest of us should have to do. Also - eliminating the lower divisions does NOT mean they are all the sudden going to move up to D3/D2 - no... they are going to go play series like WCPPL, Riot, Vicious, RPL and other series instead - meaning the money goes ELSEWHERE and the league collapses - do you honestly think that LESS teams is what the league needs? I seriously doubt you understand what you are trying to suggest... it won't work. What the league NEEDS is players to SUPPORT, and be ambassadors of the league.. but spreading the word - Here in NorCal we have a local series called the PFOA and all the teams have been spreading the word... why? because the more teams the bigger the prize package and the better the event!!!
Sorry Brandon... but everyone knows what team you play for and who owns you and your words - anyone that believes what he says isn't influenced by his position at Dye and Dye's status as a major PSP sponsor is a fool.
start promoting paintball in a POSITIVE way instead of feeding the negativity.

[poso]

Youve sold me.

[1stGenRex]

Originally Posted by FatalKitty

Sorry Brandon... but everyone knows what team you play for and who owns you and your words - anyone that believes what he says isn't influenced by his position at Dye and Dye's status as a major PSP sponsor is a fool.
start promoting paintball in a POSITIVE way instead of feeding the negativity.

yeah, I like the lack of Dye support when they are pretty much down the street from both HB and Corona...

[shorty06]

Originally Posted by poso

Ive just always called shawn and gave him my credit card number so it was pretty easy.Kids tend to keep three man teams or even five man teams together easier than seven man teams.Last year I spent $20,000 on a seven man team this year Ill spend $5,000 and I am helping two teams.Hey it sounds like you wont be happy untill I say the RPL is S#$T and The wcppl is the best So Ill see if I cant get a team together for the next wcppl to make you happy.Ive put dozens of kids in tournaments who would have never been able to play without my support.Iam just glad there are some leagues left that bakersfield kids can afford.If tourny ball was all about what you won why are these guys even playing pro ball they make just a little more than dish washers if even that.

Its not so much of putting down the RPL but how could you classify a player with IDPRO when most of the of the leagues are running APPA? That means that anyone who has not played RPL and get a team that plays D2 or a mix of players and play Rookie and destroy all the new tourney ballers? With the WCPPL using APPA I have seen Mike take away points for teams having higher ranked players play on lower division teams. Thats quality control to make sure that the all divisions are far and not one is sandbagging.

[WillyW0nka]

APPA is where it's at right now, personally, I wouldn't play anything more than a local 3-man if it didn't use APPA.