Angel A1 Bolt Stick LPR Shims

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 12:27 AM

Sorry for posting here but I need help from angel owners! I read all about it I know what my problem is lol. I just upgraded my stock a1 to magno and been playing with the settings to get it correct. Im in need of 2 maybe 3 shims as mine had none! i don't want to buy a whole pack when i only need a few! And i just finished a order with FMA so im not really wanting to spend another 8.50 + 10bucks to ship? for a pack of shims, hope some of you have them as that's ridiculous for a 2oz package. I know this should of been in the wtb section but it never gets seen sorry again.

pi.moon · 10-28-2012, 01:31 AM

What are your pressure settings and board settings?

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 05:09 PM

if i remember correctly it was like 51/53 Ill have to recheck.

dr.strangelove · 10-28-2012, 06:07 PM

55-60 psi would be better. Bear in mind you need to set your HPR pressure first, then your LPR pressure. HPR pressure of 180 psi and LPR of 55 psi should put you in the correct range.

Bolt stick problems are often caused by the breech seal or detents as well, so check those out too.

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 08:50 PM

I know to do hpr first. My reads to me are HPR 180 / LPR 53 I did put new ball dents (longer ones) and 3 piece cover but id hope I can install those correctly lol.

When I do the HPR I use my old valve stem (the steel one with the brass)

Low Setting

Gun was leaking a little bit I thought it was breech seal so replaced, then replaced foregrip seal, then replaced mini reg. Still a little hiss but haven't shot it much so prolly still seating on the new valve. Oh also i have a booster bolt 2 in it everything new. I have a brand new STR ram but haven't installed it yet since im just gonna use the gold ram with magno hammer until I work all the bugs out of this A1. Thanks guys!

dr.strangelove · 10-28-2012, 08:56 PM

Yep, those look like the correct pressures to me.

If the detents are new that shouldn't be a problem. The issue is that when they get old and brittle they can drag more and cause the bolt to stick. The breech seal could still be an issue. Even though you recently replaced it, or possibly especially because you just replaced it. The issue with the breech seal is that the adhesive swells , which increases the thickness of the seal and pushes the breech upward, causing the bolt to stick when it passes between the rotobreech and the breech body. You might want to try test firing with the breech seal removed and see what happens. If the problem goes away, scrape out the old adhesive and re-glue the seal with a dab of super glue.

Also, 1 more shim in your LPR would be ideal, and that might be enough to cause the bolt stick as well.

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pi.moon

What are your pressure settings and board settings?

I copied settings from some guy on here that had his gun worked on by you and he posted the settings but anyway

HPR- 180
LPR - 53 (obviously a problem and why i need a couple shims) remember I asked you if mini reg shims would work lol

Dwell 5.5
De-Bounce 1
Shot Filter 5%
ABS 0.25
Software 2.6

Thanks again!

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.strangelove

Yep, those look like the correct pressures to me.

If the detents are new that shouldn't be a problem. The issue is that when they get old and brittle they can drag more and cause the bolt to stick. The breech seal could still be an issue. Even though you recently replaced it, or possibly especially because you just replaced it. The issue with the breech seal is that the adhesive swells , which increases the thickness of the seal and pushes the breech upward, causing the bolt to stick when it passes between the rotobreech and the breech body. You might want to try test firing with the breech seal removed and see what happens. If the problem goes away, scrape out the old adhesive and re-glue the seal with a dab of super glue.

Also, 1 more shim in your LPR would be ideal, and that might be enough to cause the bolt stick as well.

Dr. I will definitely try that. And ya i know a shim or 2 would be ideal. As always I deeply appreciate yours and moons input.

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.strangelove

Yep, those look like the correct pressures to me.

The breech seal could still be an issue. Even though you recently replaced it, or possibly especially because you just replaced it. The issue with the breech seal is that the adhesive swells , which increases the thickness of the seal and pushes the breech upward...

I tried it, seems to help quite a bit, except on air up (with seal completly removed) I either gotta stick my finger in there to help it back or point gun up. Im thinking the shims might be what im missing for this to be completed.

dr.strangelove · 10-28-2012, 09:28 PM

If the problem only occurs on air up then it's probably not a big issue - sometimes the bolt will stick forward because either the ram or solenoid got caught between positions when it was degassed, and simply pushing it back with a squeegee and dryfiring will remedy the issue entirely. That the bolt doesn't stick while firing with the seal removed makes it likely that was at least contributing to your issue. I would go ahead and do like I mentioned before and scrape out the old adhesive and reglue your seal with a small dab of super glue.

sakrafice · 10-28-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.strangelove

If the problem only occurs on air up then it's probably not a big issue - sometimes the bolt will stick forward because either the ram or solenoid got caught between positions when it was degassed, and simply pushing it back with a squeegee and dryfiring will remedy the issue entirely. That the bolt doesn't stick while firing with the seal removed makes it likely that was at least contributing to your issue. I would go ahead and do like I mentioned before and scrape out the old adhesive and reglue your seal with a small dab of super glue.

Ya but its kinda crappy and makes it look bad on me and angel that I have to do that to play with my gun... Ive had issues in the past as it sticking after continuous fire as well, it would start to stick and here the gas pushing through it and id just shake the hell out of it to get it to quit. I now have magno'd it bought all new stuff for it and haven't really had time to play with it as I had to hunt down parts from the U.K. So once i do get the shims and have it dialed in I'll see if this has remedied those issues.

dr.strangelove · 10-28-2012, 10:25 PM

It's a bit of a nuisance, but has been a common issue since the A1 first came out, unfortunately.

Evil_racecocker · 10-29-2012, 12:06 AM

Is the roto breach on A1's differnt than the G7? I don't seem to recall having bolt stick problems with my old g7.

dr.strangelove · 10-29-2012, 12:59 AM

This issue wasn't common with the G7 series. The breech seal adhesive swelling wasn't an issue for them.

sakrafice · 11-12-2012, 09:34 AM

Sorry to bring up my thread again but its better then posting a new one. I read somewhere when people did the magno kit in the a1 to run there pressures higher and slowly back them down as they breakin(seat) Last night I completly rebuilt the gun and cleaned every little peice of the gun, relubed ect. Should I up the pressure to maybe 200 or higher ? and bring lpr up to 65? for awhile? I had a problem with a small leak from exhaust valve but I am pretty sure I got that fixed now but havent shot it yet. Let me know thanks all!

dr.strangelove · 11-12-2012, 09:40 AM

If you're using a D-Lite stem and it leaks when you first install it, increasing your pressure a little bit might help it seat, but it's not strictly necessary.

sakrafice · 11-12-2012, 10:03 AM

Ya I got the D-Lite in it. Would that help with bolt stick as well? I played with it yesterday Bone stock (took magno/boosbolt) out and it stopped leaking it was shotting great with the stock pressure and everything but when I started shotting continueous the bolt would stick, I tried pushing down on the breach and it was still doing it. So thats what made me go through the hole gun again last night. I put yet another breach seal in it and removed adheasive material and used super glue. I will find out tonight if its working propperly. Also put brand new detents in the gun. If I cant find a fix i might start milling my bolt. Unless tonight she just shoots like shes supposed too

dr.strangelove · 11-12-2012, 08:07 PM

If your LPR pressure is currently too low, then raising it might help with your bolt stick problem. If the pressure is where it should be and you're still experiencing bolt stick then it's most likely something else. If your breech pins are either too tight or too loose, that can cause bolt stick as well. And of course, check that there's nothing that could be snagging the bolt or hammer.

sakrafice · 11-12-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.strangelove

If your LPR pressure is currently too low, then raising it might help with your bolt stick problem. If the pressure is where it should be and you're still experiencing bolt stick then it's most likely something else. If your breech pins are either too tight or too loose, that can cause bolt stick as well. And of course, check that there's nothing that could be snagging the bolt or hammer.

it has to do with the breach itself, if i hold it just right it works better, how would i bend those pins?

dr.strangelove · 11-12-2012, 09:59 PM

You don't want to bend the pins - indeed, that might just be your problem, and if they are currently bent they would need to be replaced. By loosing or tightening the set screws that hold the pins in place you can adjust the tightness of the breech though. You should have about 1mm of slack up/down/side/side.

sakrafice · 11-13-2012, 11:35 AM

Well gased up the gun last night after playing with the hpr and lpr pressures and its back to leaking from the exhaust valve a little bit. Thinking of trying to replace the orings on the valve guide even though the whole magno kit is brand new. I have a new ram i may try when i get some more air as i ran out last night. Another question I have is about greasing this gun... take a look at http://www.oringmonkey.com/images/manuals/WDPAngel1.pdf and on page 13 it shows the whole inner tube should be lubed? and it shows it like that elsewhere in that manual... should I be doing that? Im using the grease Bob sent me from FMA. And I lubbed lightly all the orings and even the green ram oring when its extended... Should I not be lubing some of those orings but just lub the tube? Thanks!