[IanR]

So in theory refs should pull everyone with an 05 proflex that removed the gay chin strap???

[leprechaun8942]

Originally posted by gyroscope
I don't want to pay somone to measure the damn ears on everyone's mask. The rule is the way it is because it is easy to enforce and requires no judgement from referees, only the willpower to enforce it.

well would you rather pay someone who lost their hearing because they were idiots and cut their ear pieces then get bunkered in the ear and lose their hearing, so they turn around and sue NPPL? its all about protecting the tournament series from litigation

[5150rabbitt]

Originally posted by IanR
So in theory refs should pull everyone with an 05 proflex that removed the gay chin strap???

technically yeah, hence why i dont have an .05 proflex.

i have an 04 proflex, and an invision

[gyroscope]

Originally posted by leprechaun8942
well would you rather pay someone who lost their hearing because they were idiots and cut their ear pieces then get bunkered in the ear and lose their hearing, so they turn around and sue NPPL? its all about protecting the tournament series from litigation

Dude, you are saying the same thing as me.

I am saying that defining how much customization is ok is a waste, that customization is potentially dangerous, and therefore rather than waste resources on making individual judgements, a one-size-fits-all rule is the only practical way to go.

I would not be the one sued by someone who violates the rules I am advocating- the NPPL would. I mentioned the very argument you are making in a post earlier in this thread. But, hey, maybe there is just an echo in here.

[raehl]

Originally posted by tRiCkEd
sorry to burst your bubble raehl, but waivers do not mean anything. I have talked with a friend/teammate, who owns an insurance agency, about waivers. He says that waivers are just a tactic used by insurance companies to avert 'common folk' like you and me from litigation when they believe they have a right to.

In a court room, waivers dont hold much weight.

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but you're wrong. In most states, waivers are legally binding contracts. I know of multiple cases that were won on summary judgement on the basis of the waiver. The grounds for the suit against the field were that the player did not know the inherent risks of paintball, and somebody shot them and they suffered an eye injury. Both because they were on the field and took off their mask and because they were in a safe area and somebody else in their party shot them. In both cases it wasn't the field's fault, and what could have been a long trial to prove that were there no waiver, was instead an issue settled by the judge without trial with the waiver.

Anybody can sue anyone for any reason, no waiver is going to stop that. But how long the suit lasts, and who ultimately wins, can very much be influenced or even determined by a written agreement between the two parties. If you sign a written agreement saying you absolve someone for liability for the inherent risks in playing paintball, you're right, it doesn't stop you from suing them. But it sure as hell stops you from being successful when the judge says "You're suing the field because of an injury that is an inherent risk of playing paintball? And you signed a waiver saying you wouldn't do it? You lose, case closed."

- Chris

[raehl]

And just in case you don't know, summary judgement is when a judge rules on a case without a trial because one party can not possibly make a legal argument that would prevail at trial.

If the defense can win by summary judgement, it's a lot quicker and cheaper, which ultimately keeps more people in business and insurance rates lower and less litigious scumbags living off the rest of us.

- Chris

[tRiCkEd]

show me the multiple cases that you know...and i will rest my case.

[Sir Raph]

But also remember that the info that you two (raehl & tricked) might have will differ from state to state. Tricked's info is from Michigan, where a waiver may hold less weight in court.

[nitro098]

Originally posted by authority zero 1
my bad it was the dude from farside who threw his mask

just a pic..


mad respect for Farside

[NIB means New in Box]

what is "looking cool" worth to you?

Come one. Tournament paintball is nothing now, if not a fashion show. Image to most of the players is a lot. It's worth quite a bit to us.

Masks aren't made simply to be effective. No tournament paintball player buys the JT headshield for a reason. Manufacturers blend funtionality and style to sell masks. Production masks could definitely be safer. And they you have the people that mod them, some heavily and some not so much. Unfortunately, the league has bigger concerns, generally speaking, than the modifications made to masks. I agree that it shouldn't need to be policed by referees at events, and that the player should be responsible for keeping their mask legal. But that isn't the way things works. Go look at a real world application of that.

That said, my mask is modded.

[5150rabbitt]

i'm not even gonna try to explain why this is illegal, because it's just stupid too.

i'll say this though, i like my hearing and dont want to have a paintball or parts of a paintball destroy my hearing all because i wanted to look cool/ agg, or i was doing it because everyone thinks its cool, or they say its more comfortable.

short story time:

i was in the marines, and in the marines i had to wear and do alot of things that didn't feel the greatest, or i liked AT ALL. but i wore what i was told to wear and how it was meant to be wore because i knew ultimatly even though i may not like how it feels on me i know this peice of equipment will do it's job and stop a bullet or shrapnel. not a single marine out there alters their gear to look cool or agg nor does he/ she alter it to be more comfortable. why? because for us it was life and death, we learned to put our trust in the research and development that went into those articles of gear that were given to us. now i know this isnt exactly life and death here, but we are dealing with a MAJOR safety issue, and those of you who havent already remedied your masks thats fine with me. but it doesnt mean i have to let you on a field that i am overseeing! why? becasue if you were to take a ball to the ear and one of those little pieces of shrapnel that splinter off the ball were to rocket into your ear and completly puncture or rip your ear drum open cuasing you to loose your hearing would be my fault if i LET you on to play like that. well i got news for ya, i like my money i earn and i have a hard enough time giving money to other peole i.e. rent, car, gas, bills, insurance* i mean i am just giving these people money just incase something happens*
and im not gonna allow some idiot kid thats half my age or anyone else for that matter get into a situation where they can or might even have a chance to sue me or anyone else for that matter if it was able to be stopped before they even got hit.


now you wanted a reason and you have one

a mature adult that takes their personal saftey into mind when playing paintball or any other sport for that matter will not go and drastically alter a piece of gear they have just because it feels alittle better, if the result of doing so is being told that they cant compete like that.

and those of you who will continue to do so.... well your just ignorant to life, and i'm sorry but i'm not gonna let you play like that if i can help it!

so change it before i make you change it or keep you from playing until you do....

[NIB means New in Box]

Everyone likes their hearing. *Most* mask mods done by players don't endanger this sense. The picture of the Farside player is an exception. IMO, he's taken it a bit far.

Comparing your military experience to a paintball concern is ridiculous. If you can't come to a strong conclusion of why, you obviously have alarming delusions about the sport.

a mature adult that takes their personal saftey into mind when playing paintball or any other sport for that matter will not go and drastically alter a piece of gear they have just because it feels alittle better, if the result of doing so is being told that they cant compete like that.

I'm a mature adult. I have no doubt Sir Raph and the others here are as well. To attack the maturity of *competant* individuals on here is assinine. I haven't been told yet that I cannot play with my mask. It is unlikely that I will be scolded for it at any point this season.

My mask is still safer than other production masks out there. Seeing as how all major manufactured masks are certified, the problem with the masks is lack of standardization. I'm sure you would let an unmodded mask on the field that provides less protection than many of the modified masks out there. So are you following the word of the law or the spirit? Will you send a player off the field or make them switch out protection if they're using a legitimate mask that you see as insufficient? If so, you take your clearly superior conclusions of safety over the entire industry. If not, you allow a potentially "dangerous" set of goggles onto the field.

More people injure themselves in the NPPL on the bunker stakes and slippery turf then by using a modded mask. Crusade about those concerns and offer safer alternatives to actual threats instead.

well your just ignorant to life, and i'm sorry but i'm not gonna let you play like that if i can help it!

I'm fairly competant and attentive to life, but you're right. You got me chief, I'm an ignoramus. Get off the soap box.

[gyroscope]

I've been thinking about this and the whole trying to look original thing. I think it is part of self promotion as much as self expression.

If you pull off some great move, that gets noticed but then forgotten. But, if you are the only guy wearing a Yellow beanie with propeller, and you pull off the same move, you will be remembered.

This is the value in Chris Lasoya's pony tail, and it is why he oughta make that other Infamous guy with the ponytail get a hair cut. I am not saying Chris is a great player because of his freakin ponytail, but the hair is part of why everyone knows him on the field and watches what he does.

[5150rabbitt]

hey NIB- whats assinine here is the fact that you can't accept when someone is right.

quit taking each one of my posts as a personal attack on you!

although this post IS directly aimed at you, no i'm not getting off my soad box. i like it on it.

you want me off then step up and take it over til then STFU

[SoMich_Tom]

Originally posted by 5150rabbitt
hey NIB- whats assinine here is the fact that you can't accept when someone is right.

Nobody here is right or wrong.

You're too ignorant to understand that you aren't even arguing the same point as the others. Nobody here said that modding a mask will not increase the chance of risk. All they're saying is they feel that should be their choice, as it is their health they are affecting.

You keep blabbering about how its unsafe, WE ALL KNOW THAT.

You've said the same thing for the past 5 posts or so, give it up. Nobody here really cares to see you ramble on that much about the same thing.

[5150rabbitt]

well if you all know that then you should also know that it's not your choice and will not become your choice on if you can mod your masks so why continue????

[raehl]

Originally posted by SoMich_Tom
Nobody here is right or wrong.

Actually, the people who think players should be allowed to modify their masks are wrong.

- Chris

[bvlax2005]

listen you all need some commons sense smacked into you. rules are rules. whether you like then or not, you still have to follow them. cutting up a mask just so you look "cool" is stupid. and here you people are arguing about looking "cool" then you wonder why people dont take paintball as a serious sport. in no other sport have i ever seen such petty arguing. no one in baseball, soccer, football, or anything else sits around and argues about how the rules dont let them look "cool"

and have any of you thought that the companies that make the masks do it for a reason? they make their masks in a certain way for a reason and who are any of you to say that they are wrong? if your ideas are so much better than go tell the mask companies. who knows, maybe you'll get a job. and here's a thought for ya: if you dont like the mask you have, get a different one!

seriously people stop whining about your stupid masks.

[tRiCkEd]

Originally posted by raehl
Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but you're wrong. In most states, waivers are legally binding contracts. I know of multiple cases that were won on summary judgement on the basis of the waiver. The grounds for the suit against the field were that the player did not know the inherent risks of paintball, and somebody shot them and they suffered an eye injury. Both because they were on the field and took off their mask and because they were in a safe area and somebody else in their party shot them. In both cases it wasn't the field's fault, and what could have been a long trial to prove that were there no waiver, was instead an issue settled by the judge without trial with the waiver.

Anybody can sue anyone for any reason, no waiver is going to stop that. But how long the suit lasts, and who ultimately wins, can very much be influenced or even determined by a written agreement between the two parties. If you sign a written agreement saying you absolve someone for liability for the inherent risks in playing paintball, you're right, it doesn't stop you from suing them. But it sure as hell stops you from being successful when the judge says "You're suing the field because of an injury that is an inherent risk of playing paintball? And you signed a waiver saying you wouldn't do it? You lose, case closed."

- Chris

On May 21, 2004 a 12 year old boy was awarded 6.6 Million dollars in a paintball lawsuit by Cook County Judge Edward Burr. The boy was accidently shot in the eye while in the staging area. He is now blind in his right eye. This occurred at Country Club Paintball in Glenwood, IL (near Chicago). The parents of the boy were represented by Kevin Golden of Motherway & Napleton, LLP.
The field had a spotless safety record and was operating within all the insurance parameters. The parents had signed a waiver. The field owner had done everything correctly. All paintball insurance carriers in the industry carry a liability maximum of 1 million dollars. This left the field owner owing 5.6 Million dollars to the player. He lost his business, home, vehicles, and retirement account, and will continue to pay for the rest of his life.
The liability that field owners are now exposed to far out performs any profit that can be generated. In simple terms, it's no longer worth the risk.

[tRiCkEd]

that was a quote from a field owner here in michigan...

[milk & cereal (Banned)]

5.01 Facemask/ Goggles. Players, Officials and any other individuals present in a goggle-safe area must wear goggles with full-face protectionmanufactured for use in paintball games inIT'S ORIGINAL FORM.


then technically you shouldnt even be allowed to remove the visor...