[BlackPromaster46]

Originally Posted by neversummer89

For the record, I was the player in the 1v1 against the NES edge dude in the point here that is being much discussed. In all things there are 3 or more perspectives - those of the people playing it (in this case my opponent and I), the refs, and spectators. Take or leave it, doesn't matter now, here is my telling of the event. I was in the 1v1 and he was in the snake corner, I was in the home bunker. We're snapping and going at it, and I shoot him out according to the ref standing directly next to me, who calls him out very clearly. I wait behind my bunker for the player to walk off and notice the other two refs run over, who by the way were standing beside and behind him, come, and call him clean after a thorough check. I was poised to go bunker him to make double sure but waited because I was positive he was gonna walk off any second. This double checking after the out call definitely threw me off! In my experience reffing, and every tournament I've played, if a ref calls a player out, it is a binding call, regardless of if it's faulty or not. It can't be taken back, and it sticks. I have never seen a player get called out and then after a second check, get put back in. Maybe some people have, I have not. Finally, after they call him clean, the ref standing next to me does nothing by not backing up his call, we continue to snap, and he gets me in the hopper. NES Edge guy hangs the flag, I tell the head ref what happened, the head guy of the NPPL I believe came up and said an out call is an out call and that is the end of it, reverse the decision. I can see why the dude on the other end would be pissed, but the ref who called him out, erroneously or not, had a far better viewing angle to make that decision than the other two who called him clean I rest my case.

How would the ref furthest away and with a bunker blocking a player have the best viewing angle? And if he did, why didn't he point out to the refs checking him where he was hit. You have a case of two refs who checked him up and down and found nothing. You say you rest your case, but I don't really see what you put to rest. You basically just explained how the refs made the wrong call, but the wrong call was the right one because you won?

But whatever makes you sleep better at night knowing you choked a 4 on 1.....

[I'm RickJames]

Originally Posted by BlackPromaster46

How would the ref furthest away and with a bunker blocking a player have the best viewing angle? And if he did, why didn't he point out to the refs checking him where he was hit. You have a case of two refs who checked him up and down and found nothing. You say you rest your case, but I don't really see what you put to rest. You basically just explained how the refs made the wrong call, but the wrong call was the right one because you won? But whatever makes you sleep better at night knowing you choked a 4 on 1.....

I don't have a dog in this fight but... I think what he's "putting to rest" is the fact that if a ref calls a player, even if it was a bad call, that player is OUT. If that is truly what happened it sounds like the initial call was incorrect but regardless the call was made therefore the Ultimate Ref (I'm guessing Dan or Tony) was forced to stand behind that call. In the end they made the right decision. I feel bad for guy who "lost" the 1-on-1 under those circumstances but one incorrect call shouldn't make them hate the entire league.

Chris

[neversummer89]

Originally Posted by I'm RickJames

I don't have a dog in this fight but... I think what he's "putting to rest" is the fact that if a ref calls a player, even if it was a bad call, that player is OUT. If that is truly what happened it sounds like the initial call was incorrect but regardless the call was made therefore the Ultimate Ref (I'm guessing Dan or Tony) was forced to stand behind that call. In the end they made the right decision. I feel bad for guy who "lost" the 1-on-1 under those circumstances but one incorrect call shouldn't make them hate the entire league.

Chris

That was my main point, thank you Chris. Our team refs our local events multiple times a year and while we aren't professional / league refs, these things happen. I've made calls on people that end of being questionable, but on the other side of the coin, skilled players tend to be like magicians. They make hits disappear, even ones that would otherwise appear to be obvious or blatant.

Our team got dicked by trade calls, consistently against us, that hurt our chances at finals. But it's easy to blame the refs, and we didn't play well enough to overcome the calls we disagree with. One bad call in this case is no reason to hate the entire league, and while we're disappointed, there are still good lessons to take away from the event.

Finally, as I recall, either you BlackProMaster or one of your teammates came up to our team after the decision was finalized and said something to effect of "**** happens it's cool and it was a good point, we're still stoked" yet here you are, continuing to whine. Regardless, it's over now, and everyone on our team is stoked for next season (as well as a break from paintball and some snowboarding).

The main thing I took away was that The Riviera hotel smells like stale cigarette smoke and ***

[BlackPromaster46]

Originally Posted by neversummer89

That was my main point, thank you Chris. Our team refs our local events multiple times a year and while we aren't professional / league refs, these things happen. I've made calls on people that end of being questionable, but on the other side of the coin, skilled players tend to be like magicians. They make hits disappear, even ones that would otherwise appear to be obvious or blatant.

Our team got dicked by trade calls, consistently against us, that hurt our chances at finals. But it's easy to blame the refs, and we didn't play well enough to overcome the calls we disagree with. One bad call in this case is no reason to hate the entire league, and while we're disappointed, there are still good lessons to take away from the event.

Finally, as I recall, either you BlackProMaster or one of your teammates came up to our team after the decision was finalized and said something to effect of "**** happens it's cool and it was a good point, we're still stoked" yet here you are, continuing to whine. Regardless, it's over now, and everyone on our team is stoked for next season (as well as a break from paintball and some snowboarding).

The main thing I took away was that The Riviera hotel smells like stale cigarette smoke and ***

I guess it might just be me, but I am reading your posts in a cocky attitude, both to the fact that you are saying that you shot him out, and now that you are saying that he's so skilled he wiped. **** does happen, but I don't think it was the right call, nor do I think you saying he wiped is the "positive" attitude either. He did admit he took a bounce or two, but do you really think he couldve wiped a bounce with THREE refs staring at him and TWO that were right next to him, let alone worrying about another guy coming down the field? Give me a break.

I guess my point is, if you are going to make a call, FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT...and wtf is the point of all the refs meeting together after a point if they are going to go against logic, because one guy said it first? I saw the ref on snake side all game that would just point people out and let the game keep playing. Anybody want to explain that?

So yeah, I am a little perturbed, and I guess I read your post in a cocky voice. My apologies, on the other hand....I am extremely jealous that your snowboarding season has started early....we have to wait till late december here in cali

[neversummer89]

No hate coming from me man, and to put it to rest, I'm not even suggesting your teammate wiped. All I'm saying is that most talented paintball players, if given the opportunity, can easily make hits disappear, that's all. That's more relating to the point that sometimes bad calls are made on account of a ref's suspicion of that happening. moving on...

[Johnnymac631]

Lol this is a tad bit interesting and funny as well .

If you think Psp reffs don't factor in majorly in Psp your mistaken.
Now the league has been a little shotty-however everyone barked up their tree about not having all events this season - they did .0
People barked up their tree about reffing and a webcast they Provided a webcast and in all honesty - me being a Psp pro reff - I think the nppl reffing staff has got a lot better then last season . So while Psp is the better league slandering the league and tournament in which you just played all because you didn't win isn't a very good good way to put yourself out there as a player a team and moreover terrible sportsmanship . I can't recall who had said it , but they were right earlier - if you leave any sport in the hands of the refs to lose it or win it for you clearly you weren't doing you job to begin with.

[Bloodlust1279]

Video or it didn't happen...

[neversummer89]

Originally Posted by Johnnymac631

Lol this is a tad bit interesting and funny as well .

If you think Psp reffs don't factor in majorly in Psp your mistaken.
Now the league has been a little shotty-however everyone barked up their tree about not having all events this season - they did .0
People barked up their tree about reffing and a webcast they Provided a webcast and in all honesty - me being a Psp pro reff - I think the nppl reffing staff has got a lot better then last season . So while Psp is the better league slandering the league and tournament in which you just played all because you didn't win isn't a very good good way to put yourself out there as a player a team and moreover terrible sportsmanship . I can't recall who had said it , but they were right earlier - if you leave any sport in the hands of the refs to lose it or win it for you clearly you weren't doing you job to begin with.

Well put. Thanks for all your work reffing pro in PSP - that has got to be intense!

[I'm RickJames]

Originally Posted by neversummer89

Well put. Thanks for all your work reffing pro in PSP - that has got to be intense!

Did we just get a "thank you for your service" comment for a ref like he's in the military?!?

This thread sure has taken a drastic turn... lol

[skunk_13_2005]

Originally Posted by I'm RickJames

Did we just get a "thank you for your service" comment for a ref like he's in the military?!?

This thread sure has taken a drastic turn... lol

[murder1]

You guys that are hatin on the NPPL are high! 'You obviously havent played or attended the Huntington Beach event? That event alone is a great reason why you should play in this league. Just check out one of those ridiculous, over the top HK Army videos on YouTube, and you'll say to yourself; self? God dammit I gotta play this sh*t!!- Lookin all pimp in front of your friends that don't understand why You play Pball in the first place, and only think You're a complete jackass, always flat broke all the time because of it.... Just wait til they see you on that field like a straight up G, in all of your glory....or not, if you're a horrible player and you just plain suck. It's the one of the few events out there that really brings Pball out to the masses and showcases our best qualities as a well organized sport. Sure it's expensive as all hell, and the schedule is a complete nightmare, with an hour or two of down time between each game.But nothing comes close in comparison to this venue. Last year Vans surfing classic was going off at the same time, on the south side of the pier, NPPL was about ten times bigger. Music, Surf, bikinis, paintball on the beach, bikinis,partying all weekend long with chicks in bikinis, smack dab in the middle of it all. Main Street shops and restaurants within walking distance , and for once, not pushed off somewhere on the outskirts of town. Variety is always a good thing. Nppl, PSP, Wcppl, etc, There's good and bad in everything. Sometimes refs are pieces of sh*ts. If you got screwed over once, rest assured it will happen again in this league or the next. Nothing that you can do about it, just smile and wave. Life is too short. Play this game strictly for the fun of it, and nothing else, or it will eat you up and you'll end up quitting. Don't quit, paintball needs you.

[boy from florida]

Originally Posted by jorge19

NPPL might as well just drop out of paintball

the nppl is doing as good as that guys face in your avatar...

[eopb08]

I don’t know about anyone else but I am getting tired of people who joined PBnation less than a year ago (clearly who have not been playing the sport that long) posting negative things about the NPPL... If you don’t like the nppl... don’t play it.... but leave your ignorant comments to yourself. Weather you like the league or hate the league there is no denying the fact that have more avenues for people to play is good for the sport.

[I'm RickJames]

Originally Posted by eopb08

I don’t know about anyone else but I am getting tired of people who joined PBnation less than a year ago (clearly who have not been playing the sport that long) posting negative things about the NPPL... If you don’t like the nppl... don’t play it.... but leave your ignorant comments to yourself. Weather you like the league or hate the league there is no denying the fact that have more avenues for people to play is good for the sport.

THISSSSSS ^^^

[Hobbes The Tiger]

Originally Posted by eopb08

I don’t know about anyone else but I am getting tired of people who joined PBnation less than a year ago (clearly who have not been playing the sport that long)

FYI, there's plenty of people that have been playing for year that haven't joined PbN until now. While PbN is hands down the best source for anything paintball online, there's still people that didn't feel the need to join until recently. I know there's people that have 2010 and newer join dates, yet they've been playing for years.

[Wilder67]

Viva la NPPL! 7-man for life!

[Naut]

Originally Posted by Barber

I'm still plenty involved with things, I know what's going on.

I'd say that Devastation and AC402 would more than hold their own in Pro level 7 man, but the fact is, why would they? It's clearly a dying league that garners little to no respect and uses a dying format. No teams want to commit any time or money towards it, hence why they cannot fill divisions and allow random teams to fill out the pro spots.

Why haven't the outlaws made it out of prelims in d1 PSP? Did any of the outlaw teams make it out of prelims at a PSP event this season? Take a look at some of these pro NPPL teams and where their players play in the PSP and their success rate, that should say quite a bit about the difference in the level of competition.

Not trying to make this into an attack or anything of the sort, John. I think it's great what you guys are doing and it's cool to see you guys winning stuff. I just think it is clear that one of the leagues, division-for-division and team-for-team carries a much higher level of talent.

We made it out of prelims Barber.

[Nikilwig]

Originally Posted by Barber

They would at least podium in d2 though...

There are definitely d2 PSP teams that could win Pro NPPL events, no doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the top d3 teams could compete just as well. The drop off in talent level between leagues is ridiculous.

NPPL has gone down hill. In the past the competition was very good. There are still good teams from NPPL that do very well in PSP. The obvious names like Xfactor who won cup and so forth.
But NPPL d1 Avalanche team from last year placed 4th twice in d1 PSP with little practice or preparation. Trademygun won D1 and didn't have all their players. High Octane a NPPL d2 team had a close loss in the D2 quarter finals, a team that does not even play PSP.

There are plenty of players in both leagues. The NPPL is not what it once was, there is less competition, but there is still talent there.

[importdirect]

What I take is you win some you loose some. From loosing due to what we felt where bad calls to winning. What we changed was came out much more aggressive and laid it all out there on the field. Basically we went after the win and got it. When we lost sure as hell wanted to blame everyone, but in the end only we are the major factor in winning or loosing. Refs (unless they have a personal vendetta against you, or flat out crappy reffing) is not a major factor at all. Smash everyone 7 bodies up ref cant change the out come of that.

When it was under Chuck and PEV I sat down and talked with them they truly love the sport and do this for the community. Team mates met up with Shawn same thing this guy Shawn walker is here for the sport. Changes will be made to make the NPPL the best series it can be. All this cry baby stuff online does not accomplish anything.

When ever I had an issue I man up called or met up with Chuck or Pev directly, this past event the team went straight up and talked to Shawn. Things get done when you go straight to the source, not whine here for sympathy. I respect all these guys for giving us the time of day to handle issues.

I have experience the frustrating losses due to one call, and the glory of winning. So don't give me that crap oh your on the NPPL side cause you won.
We have experienced both winning and loosing, at NPPL Events. We plan to compete next season also.

Aloha,

[freerider007]

Crying about refs happens every event. PS or NPPL. Lovers always want to find an excuse for why they lost. I've seen some horrible reffing on the divisional PSP fields. Do you honestly think that the PSP is able to pull together enough quality and qualified refs to run 9 fields. The skill level of some of the refs on The lower division field gets pretty watered down.

[Codename067]

Mean while...while waiting for that video...