2012 MLB Discussion Thread

~ayomang~ · 11-14-2012, 11:22 PM

marlins fan checking in, wasn't to bad of a deal even though Loria just completely killed whatever was left of the fan base.

SmartyJones · 11-15-2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireEmperor

He should, but he won't. While some voters are educated in sabermetrics, most can't take off the nostalgia goggles.

It's not about sabermetrics; WAR is still a flawed stat.

It's about looking at everything the player does. Offense apparently means more than anything to the voters, but it shouldn't.

iRoNiQ · 11-15-2012, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat_Joe

Sweet...they just made sure Boston will finish dead last in the division now.

slateman · 11-15-2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmartyJones

It's not about sabermetrics; WAR is still a flawed stat.

It's about looking at everything the player does. Offense apparently means more than anything to the voters, but it shouldn't.

Offensively, Trout > Cabrera

SmartyJones · 11-15-2012, 04:21 PM

I wouldn't agree with that. Cabrera beats Trout in every offensive category except stealing bases. Also, people are going to justify Cabrera over Trout because he hit his best in August-September whereas Trout's production took a dip in that same period. Not saying it's right; I'm still unsure where I stand on the issue. That's just what Cabrera supporters will tell you though. He hit his best when his team needed it the most.

Also, Monkey boy winning the Cy Young over Verlander is a crime. Price had a marginally better ERA, but Verlander has the better WHIP, strikeout average, more complete games, and a significantly higher inning count.

slateman · 11-15-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmartyJones

I wouldn't agree with that. Cabrera beats Trout in every offensive category except stealing bases. Also, people are going to justify Cabrera over Trout because he hit his best in August-September whereas Trout's production took a dip in that same period. Not saying it's right; I'm still unsure where I stand on the issue. That's just what Cabrera supporters will tell you though. He hit his best when his team needed it the most.

Also, Monkey boy winning the Cy Young over Verlander is a crime. Price had a marginally better ERA, but Verlander has the better WHIP, strikeout average, more complete games, and a significantly higher inning count.

Price had more wins. Apparently that matters to the voters

As for better offense, you're not counting Trouts baserunning nor Cabrera's MLB leading 28 GIDP. Furthermore, you're counting Trout's stolen bases as a separate stat, when, in reality, they're connected. Think about it, guy gets a single and then steals second is the same result as if the guy had hit a double.

Trout's speed and his batting ability is, at worst, a smidge under Cabrera's. You couple that with his elite defense vs Cabrera's mediocre (at best) defense at third and it's clear who the best player was.

Furthermore, after Trout got called up, the Angels were tied for the best record in baseball. If he had started the season with the team, they'd have made the playoffs.

EmpireEmperor · 11-15-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmartyJones

It's not about sabermetrics; WAR is still a flawed stat.

It's about looking at everything the player does. Offense apparently means more than anything to the voters, but it shouldn't.

Correct. It's Most Valuable PLAYER not Most Valuable HITTER. Cabrera is a below average defender and a slow baserunner, while Trout is one of baseball's best defensive players and led the Majors in stolen bases.

I'm quite surprised that Trout only got 6 first place votes while Cabrera received 22. I understand that the voters value offensive numbers above all else (and still mistakenly believe that RBI is a relevant statistic) and I thought Cabrera would ultimately win, but I thought it would be much closer.

A Contract Killer · 12-02-2012, 09:55 PM

Anyone else hear all the talk surrounding Zack Greinke and think he's not that ****ing good when they talk about possibly the biggest contract in history for a pitcher?

slateman · 12-03-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Contract Killer

Anyone else hear all the talk surrounding Zack Greinke and think he's not that ****ing good when they talk about possibly the biggest contract in history for a pitcher?

He really isn't. Verlander is more deserving of the biggest contract in history.

Don't get me wrong, Grienke is a great pitcher, but not worth that kind of contract. Grienke is realistically worth 17-20 million a year average.

A Contract Killer · 12-03-2012, 12:23 PM

I like him and all but the fact that he really only had one great season and a couple good ones means he's not deserving of such a huge contract. Also, he seems like too much of a head case to play for a team in a tough media market. I could see him having a mental breakdown once a month if he doesn't meet expectations.

horrors · 12-03-2012, 07:17 PM

Why does everyone think he's going to have a mental breakdown? Quit listening to the tabloids lol jesus christ

Everyone is more concerned about him having a mental lapse than they are Hamilton smoking crack rocks and doing body shots again

toolbandfan · 12-03-2012, 11:37 PM

When you're going to be paying a player $10+ million a year you better be damn sure he is going to be in his right mind.

Drex17 · 12-04-2012, 01:50 PM

Just saw the astros new hat, bleggghhhhh. their new uniforms aren't bad though.

slateman · 12-04-2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horrors

Why does everyone think he's going to have a mental breakdown? Quit listening to the tabloids lol jesus christ

Everyone is more concerned about him having a mental lapse than they are Hamilton smoking crack rocks and doing body shots again

He was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and depression.

horrors · 12-04-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slateman

He was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and depression.

Obviously, and he's clearly on medication/counseling and hasn't shown any signs of a "big market" team reciprocating any of those problems (as he preformed very well for the Angels). Not to mention that he has said himself that a big market team doesn't scare him, and he would like to play for one

slateman · 12-04-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horrors

Obviously, and he's clearly on medication/counseling and hasn't shown any signs of a "big market" team reciprocating any of those problems (as he preformed very well for the Angels). Not to mention that he has said himself that a big market team doesn't scare him, and he would like to play for one

I don't consider the Angels a big market team. The Dodgers have a far larger fan base.

And of course he said that. He wants his payday. The fact is that he's had issues before and it's something to consider before shelling out that kind of money.

horrors · 12-04-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slateman

I don't consider the Angels a big market team. The Dodgers have a far larger fan base.

And of course he said that. He wants his payday. The fact is that he's had issues before and it's something to consider before shelling out that kind of money.

whatever bro *flips hair*

slateman · 12-05-2012, 07:04 AM

LMAO, Victorino signs with Boston for 3/39

WTF!?! What are you doing Boston!?! What happened to the youth movement!?!

Oh, and the guy was looking for 10 million a year. So you basically paid him for 4 years

horrors · 12-06-2012, 12:06 PM

Greinke to the rangers or dodgers? or mystery team?

White-out · 12-06-2012, 12:34 PM

Rangers

slateman · 12-06-2012, 06:29 PM

I think the Angels come in and steal him.

Justin Upton trade talks continue. Rangers want him but don't want to part with Profar or Andrus. Can't say I blame them. Move Kinsler to LF, play Andrus and Profar in the middle, Justin Upton in RF and DH Cruz.

Problem is that the Dbacks are pretty desperate for middle infield help.