[charlieiscool]

im just hoping that they shoot better than the PM8's


my whole team got pm8s and we all had to send them back 2 dye at least twice...

it was garbage..

[SynergyAMB1125]

Originally Posted by poopresearch

^^^ Hard to say... PM's shoot darn nice. There may have been some marketing involved but I'm sure they didn't have to twist anyone's arm too hard to make them shoot a PM.

As for whether or not there will be a PM9, I sure hope there will be. The PM line is very popular and with good reason. You get an awesome marker for a price pretty similar to a shocker. It's smoother shooting, generally more efficient and it doesn't come with a throw-away feedneck, board and ASA.

The PMR is hardly any replacement for the PM line. The PMR is a decent marker but it's no where near as smooth and efficiency is typically pretty awful. Not a bad marker, but not one I'd choose to shoot since I bought my PM7 for about the same price.

haha yeah i'm sure the players werent like "oh no way i'm shooting a DM"

and the PMR doesnt even come close to replacing the real PM line. i thought that there wasnt a big difference between the PMR and the M7(i own a PMR) and then i shot a M7 and i fell in love hahahaha. proto is gonna lose alot of customers(but they'll probably hang onto the entry level w/ PMR/SLG) if they discontinue the PM line, so lets keep our fingers crossed

[golden mark]

my favorite part is that i own a ul'd pm6 with the critical trigger and stiffi switch kit and i was chrono +/- 4 fps. While the dms do LOOK alot better and offer a few more features, i couldnt see any marker performng much better than that. idk though i would love to rip that geo apart and see its unmentionables!

[soccerguy243]

I'm hoping the PM9 has some major changes to it, something worth our money to buy this years model. The leap that ego made with their geo is the kind of development in spool valve systems that I think people are looking for, if not expecting.

[Tampa_USF2009]

no company wants to sell more for less.
they want to sell more for more if possible.

The difference in profit between the PM vs DM is BIG.

The Dye is very similar to the proto. The proto probly costs just a few dollars less to produce than the Dye. And i meen a FEW. Now i do not have a clue how much they cost to make. But lets say $200 give or take. for both dye and proto.

While the Price of $750 vs $1400 is not where Dye makes profit. Its how much they sell at wholesale or dealer price. The PM8's cost $575 wholesale. Buying only a few like 1-10 markers to something like a smaller local shop. While someone like Actionvillage buys 100+ (i have no clue, but alot) for a bit less. Not sure what a bulk buyer would buy them for ($500? $450??).

The DM8 cost $1100 at the wholesale price. Again thats buying a couple...

Now every DYE that is sold, in that case, Dye made $900 per marker compared to $350 or so with the Protos.

This is where economics junkies who are hired by Dye figure out the Math.

In order to maintain same amount of profit, they need to sell 3x amount of Protos. But if protos become too popular and ppl INSTEAD of buying the Dye like they usually would, buy the proto. thats not good. that meens the bigger fish switched to a smaller less profitable fish. The consumer was going to buy a matrix either way. But they got $600 less off him than if he bought the Dye instead.

All because the Proto is SO DAMN CLOSE to the Dye and its not worth the additional $600.

If the Proto Matrix was a Rail instead. Then ppl who would buy a Dye, would by the Dye, since there is no same grade Proto for 1/2 the price. Only the much lesser grade Rail. They would obviously lose customers becuase some just cant afford the $1400 Dye. But the percentage of who walks away and who goes with the Dye are in their (Dye) favor.

Of course a prediction on their part. It might be a total bust. They might only sell 10% more dyes. But this is how economics works and how prices and products are made.

Im tired and hope this makes sense. It DOES make sense, as long as i worded it correctly.

Math is the law of the universe. All dye cares about is PROFITS.

Id rather sell 5 markers and make $5000 profit PROFIT!
than sell more....lets say 10, and only make $3000 PROFIT

[woahzach]

Understandable, but the point i was trying to make is that with the GEO being out and the potential that alot of people will be buying it instead of the DM9. The PM9 which i assume will be priced about $600 less then the DM and $500 less then the GEO, it is the next most profitable option to Dye if significantly less people are buying DM9's. Regardless of the amount of difference in profit to Dye from each gun, not selling DM's would mean they would have to sell alot of PM's.

With that being said, Dye economically wouldnt go down because they cant sell a DM, because they so sell all of their other gear in the Dye and Proto line. Who knows, if they cant sell DM's then maybe we could see a price drop soon, but i doubt that.

[Trulyshrimpy]

i'm pretty bent on thinking that the Proto Matrix series is done.

BUT IMO it would be most profitable for Proto/Dye to make a DM9 cloan (same gun, new milling, [evil minion vs pm series]) OR even maybe just step up the level of quality on the PM and offer it around $1000 instead of the $750.

also they could offer the PM9 as like an LE DM9. this would probably be the least likely thing to happen, but it would be very very awesome if it did happen. but if dye doesn't make a pm9 they are going to loose way too many people to the geo and other similar guns in the up coming years, and even though i've been riding with proto since the pm5, the pm8 might be my last proto marker if there isn't a pm9

[PMR13954]

Maybe the PM9 will be a tube stacked exposed bolt poppit valve marker. That would be uber sexy. Kinda like the ego that was mated with a ul frame. Bonerfide

[TheHidden]

I hope it comes out this year, UL'd barrel would be nice but i doubt it

[SynergyAMB1125]

Originally Posted by golden mark

my favorite part is that i own a ul'd pm6 with the critical trigger and stiffi switch kit and i was chrono +/- 4 fps. While the dms do LOOK alot better and offer a few more features, i couldnt see any marker performng much better than that. idk though i would love to rip that geo apart and see its unmentionables!

cant get much better than that. everyone knows that dye hasnt improved much since the release of the M6s, and why pay $1400 when you can get nearly the same performance + like 1.5 oz for $1000 less?

Originally Posted by PMR13954

Maybe the PM9 will be a tube stacked exposed bolt poppit valve marker. That would be uber sexy. Kinda like the ego that was mated with a ul frame. Bonerfide

hahaha wow i cant believe no one said that earlier. like PE makes a spooly to compete with Dye, but what of Dye makes a poppit to compete w/ PE?

[vs3 guy]

Originally Posted by PMR13954

Maybe the PM9 will be a tube stacked exposed bolt poppit valve marker. That would be uber sexy. Kinda like the ego that was mated with a ul frame. Bonerfide

If its a poppet, then its not a PM9.

[SynergyAMB1125]

Originally Posted by vs3 guy

If its a poppet, then its not a PM9.

omg wow to me for not even thinking about that lol

but what are the opinions on that possibilty? like changing the PM series to a poppet valve open bolt design?

[vs3 guy]

You have a better chance of Smart Parts making a good gun than Proto making a Poppet.

[SynergyAMB1125]

hahahahaha so you're saying never, right?

[vs3 guy]

That is correct.

[SynergyAMB1125]

hahaha well ok then. i'm sure it'd be nice if they did though

[vs3 guy]

It would be smooth. But inefficient.

[SynergyAMB1125]

it'd be just like nearly ever other poppet

[vs3 guy]

They could make a spoppet. Like i designed.

[SynergyAMB1125]

lets see these designs. and what aspects does it combine?

[skwirnmn]

yay spoppets!!!