[MrBrent007]

Tippmann now has the TCR and a Model 98 with a Mag-adapter. But I don't have pics or specs.

[xXNetCodeXx]

Originally Posted by miramire

I believe there is. Myself, I'm a supporter of the need for a hard and fast MagFed definition. When I talk to people about magfed/milsim, I tell them I'm very traditional in my understanding of this branch of paintball. I want the markers to look and function as close to real steel as possible. So no ASAs, no tac cap'd 50 round hopper wannabes, no rifles with a magazine in the stock, etc. Sorry Dye, Tippmann *, Tiberius* and the like. This is probably the most extreme you can take magfed but that is what I believe it is.

Now that doesn't mean I don't want any marker that doesn't fit in this definition on the field, or that I don't want to play with anyone that doesn't agree to it. It just means that I would prefer to play like this, and providing there are enough magfed groups that operate by similar codes, that shouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps the best way to go about this whole definition problem is to create a clear definition of the levels of magfed? Say level II is what I just described above; apart from firing paintballs, needing gas to operate the markers and not literally dying or getting seriously injured when hit. Level I could be having markers that function like their real steel counterparts but have certain visual elements that discern them from real steel such as ASA's, macrolines, remote lines, etc.

I honestly feel this is two fast and hard of a definition, all markers have an ASA in function, other wise you wouldnt be able to give the marker air, while some have a regulator and on/off function that others do not. that makes little difference once out on the field. Remotelines pretty much the same thing. You will never get even close to the realism that airsoft has in there guns/markers because you gun will always require an external gas air source. but at the same time Definitions as vague as this.....

Originally Posted by The Inflicted View Post

The same definition is applicable to paintball as well- from a gameplay point of view the major factor of a magazine is that the spring must be retracted (or removed altogether) to load anything into the feed mechanism, temporarily disabling the gun's ability to feed. With a hopper, the upper portion of projectiles (if not all of them) are gravity-fed, so additional projectiles can simply be added on top as the gun continues to cycle.

Still allow for the use of a Q-loader which facilitates the same fuction when changing Qpods but still has 2 to 3 times the capacity of a magazine.

I personally would almost say that the Definition should be hard and fast about the Loading system only, not on the looks or miscellaneous features that a marker might have.

[The Inflicted]

Originally Posted by xXNetCodeXx

all markers have an ASA in function,

Oh?

[xXNetCodeXx]

Does that even run on co2 or hpa? Because if it does it has an asa might be internal like that of a tipx. All an ASA is, is an Air System Assembly. If this is however a spring propelled system of course the asa would be absent which would mean you are arguing semantic and differences between propellent systems. I am aware that there are markers that don't use air systems such as one of the splatmasters.

So before anyone else thinks to make such a statment I wil
l clarify my statement...

Any marker that uses co2 or hpa or some other form of gas propellent has an Air System Assembly or ASA and an air transfer tube of some type commonly referred to as a macro line, the air transfer tubes can be rigid or flexible and in some designs are ran internally or externally depending on the fit form and or function of the markers design.

[The Inflicted]

I'm taking issue with your terminology.
"ASA" as used in paintball refers to the specific type of CO2 tank-compatible threads introduced to the sport by Tippmann on the SMG-60.

The gun I posted is a version of the first paintball gun, the Nelspot. It runs off a 12-gram CO2 cartridge in the grip, but it does not have an "ASA'.

[xXNetCodeXx]

It may not have a part called an ASA. But it also isn't in production. And from an engineering stand point it does have an asa. Even beyond that how is asa specific to co2? Is not the connection for air on a mini or axe, or a bob long have the tank connection called an asa. Even on my scarab arms tgr2 with its tank stock combo it calls the rear block just that "rear block with integrated ASA". So my apologies for trying to point out that by not allowing ASAs in magfed games would eliminate 99% of the current markers deemed and built for milsim magfed play.

[The Inflicted]

Originally Posted by xXNetCodeXx

It may not have a part called an ASA. But it also isn't in production. And from an engineering stand point it does have an asa. Even beyond that how is asa specific to co2? Is not the connection for air on a mini or axe, or a bob long have the tank connection called an asa. Even on my scarab arms tgr2 with its tank stock combo it calls the rear block just that "rear block with integrated ASA". So my apologies for trying to point out that by not allowing ASAs in magfed games would eliminate 99% of the current markers deemed and built for milsim magfed play.

I'm not disputing that disallowing markers with ASAs into magfed games is silly (it is, and so is disallowing any gun with a springfeed)

My point is that your definition of an ASA is an odd one.

Even beyond that how is asa specific to co2?

It isn't. My point is that the thread pattern was brought to paintball by Tippmann's CO2 tank mounting. (CGA-320, which is very close to 1/2" - 14 NPS)

Again, the accepted term "ASA" refers not to just any point at which gas enters the marker, but to a female mounting unit on a marker or accessory that will accept a tank, fitting, or device with male threads patterned after common CO2 tank threads.

By way of example, this stock-class Phantom has an ASA.



This one does not.



This greedy little VM68 has six ASAs.



...and this Thundercat has three.

[xXNetCodeXx]

Thank you for clarifying. As for my definition of an ASA it is strictly from an engineering stand point and not what it is coined as. For example what individuals are calling an ASA in engineering terms would be called a 1/2-14 npt tank mount for an air system assembly. While I understand for the reasion for coined name as the previous line in bold is a mouth full while other parts of the assembly will have their own name such as air transfer tube or macro line.

However getting back on topic, personally I feel magfed is less about the looks and more about the experience. It's actually satisfying to me at least and I imagine to most magfed players to have to duck behind cover change a mag or reload and then pop back out and eliminate someone.

I also feel that the experience I have in magfed and milsim and big scenario games has alot more comroderly. After and during several games I have been approached by plays I have aided and eliminated who not only want to congratulate or thank but also to sit down and talk not just about paintball. I find this type of experience is less prevalent in speedball or with those of a speedball mind set. I have considered that it may just be my perception of these players and not what is actually the case.

My Definition of magfed paintball is:
The experience of using limited paint in a scenario or milsim style paintball game. Where individuals must change the loading device out right. These loading devices may carry no more then 20 rounds, with limited exception on those deemed and accepted as heavy support gunners in games and events where such a role is acceptable.

I believe my definition of mag fed is vague enough to allow those with markers that are not true magazine feed as deemed by the manufacturer. While still allowing qloaders and box mags, tac caps provided that they physically change out there loader. With qloaders this is less of an issue. But if someone wants to run a tac cap for expenses sake that individual would need to carry tac caps set to hold only 20 rounds and every time they needed to reload they have to physically change the tac cap. This would still allow tippman owners with cyclone feed systems or those with rip clips to participate. Box mags is a tough one to make a call on as they are not cheap. And this I feel such a decision should be left to the event coordinators to determine what they will allow in such a case.

[Tulifau]

http://milsig.com/m17/

The whole new Milsig M17 line. M17 CQC, M17 XDC, and M17 DMR

[2nwyka]

Originally Posted by The Inflicted

This greedy little VM68 has six ASAs.

Now THAT is a gun.
Seriously, though, why would you do that?!
Noah

[ryanwigglesworth]

mag fed is cool factor for sure, hope more players get into it.

but the price of mags is outrageous, its not nice to get gouged like that .

[atshii]

Originally Posted by 2nwyka

Now THAT is a gun.
Seriously, though, why would you do that?!
Noah

To take a picture of it?

[wilee]

xXNetCodeXx - your definition's allowance of mag capacity isn't right IMHO. I'm fine with TacCaps >30 as long as they make an effort to wait until "empty" to reload and use 10 rd tubes, Q-loaders are fine because they don't shoot FSR, and as long as you stay under the 220 rd loadout that most MFOGs seem to be adhering to (based on US infantrymen's individual ammo allowance), I don't care how you carry it. Somebody could carry 4 50 rd Hydras when they come out if they want. I hear that they'll cost $70 apiece, so that's $280 to carry 200 rds - where a 10 pack of DMags costs $60 to carry 200 rds. In the real-steel world, they're are 100 rd 5.56 Beta Mags, so if mag-fed play is to be somewhat realistic, I hope that the MF community takes some of these points into consideration as we start to get more standardized rules and guidelines

[outreach]

Originally Posted by ryanwigglesworth

mag fed is cool factor for sure, hope more players get into it.

but the price of mags is outrageous, its not nice to get gouged like that .

true story how many actual mags can you buy for the price of 1 pb related mag

[MilsimShop]

Hell of a post, thanks all for pictures !

[GabeCinSC]

Originally Posted by MrBrent007

Tippmann now has the TCR and a Model 98 with a Mag-adapter. But I don't have pics or specs.

You can get 7, 12 or 20-round mags for them at various places. Also, as an added bonus, this kit lets you swap out with a hopper if you like using the standard quick-change system. I plan to get one myself in the near future

[cye604]

Ok, well, we have 2 new guns from Milsig! (Really just variants of the CQC, but whatever, still cool)

MILSIG PARA 17


MILSIG ELITE (Black or Desert)

[opex]

the honorcore series is beautiful heres my two fav... fyi the bullpup is not out yet

[IMG][/IMG]

[dbda]

sorry but where can i get one of these

[dbda]

This is a good thread but technically with enough modifications I could make any paintball gun into a mag fed and to some people's definitions of mags all i need is a 12 round tube and a luxe and I have a mag fed marker and someone else may say a DAM isn't mag fed because you can put a hopper on it It is all a matter of opinion of definition and modification

[opex]

Originally Posted by dbda

This is a good thread but technically with enough modifications I could make any paintball gun into a mag fed and to some people's definitions of mags all i need is a 12 round tube and a luxe and I have a mag fed marker and someone else may say a DAM isn't mag fed because you can put a hopper on it It is all a matter of opinion of definition and modification

yes you could make any marker mag fed... but you could also make any marker a plant holder... i think this thread should be for more markers that come only mag or option to be mag fed... or like the 98 that have a factory mod to take mags... putting a tube on a gun isnt a mag... its a tiny hopper... a mag is pre loaded with balls and then inserted to the marker... not a tube or anything else dumped into a "10 round tube hopper" or any other kind of hopper... i dont think we need to debate what is mag fed... 99% of people know exactly what we meen by mag fed