[Lazarusrat]

Originally Posted by Dynamopbers

So...living in Canada and having some of your lovely channels I am exposed to some of the advertising putforth by the US army/navy. It's...interesting to say the least.

It seems there are some general traits they all have in common:
- Get off your *** and do something productive!!! Like...JOIN THE ARRRMMYY YAAAA
- The experience you will gain at the army is an exhilarating worthwhile journey. It's narrowmindedness disciplinary sheepish routines will make sure we maintain the best army in the world. YAAAA!!!!
- We have the best technological weaponry on the planet, we will blow away all of the competition, bar none. Don't you wanna play with guns...and tanks...and helicopters...and airplanes....and OMG yup, theyre in now....drones???
- We always have an enemy (to which we don't really tell you why) that we can **** up...and you bet they keep on coming, I mean...why would we be running all these ads right?
- The army is a great thing to have on your resume. You will stand out of the crowd when looking for further employment oppurtunities.

Army
- Be all you can be
Navy
- A global force for good

Excuuuuuuuuse me? Is noone astonished by the **** they say on these ads? A global force for good? A global force for good? Give me a break, how illusioned must you be to NOT SEE THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS NEVER BEEN ATTACKED SINCE WWII. (don't give me this stuff about 9/11).

So, I guess what I'm trying to ask is....Why in the world would anyone risk their life for the neo-imperialistic superpower the United States is? How much (dare I say) brainwashing goes on?

It is a completely different matter to speak of WWII, so please, enlighten me on your views.


edit: yes I realize most will poke fun somehow, or be in outrage over this post. I would like some half-decent responses however. Just trying to open up minds at the same time open mine

Have you ever wondered just how all that humanitarian aid gets from places like the US and Canada to Tsunami ravaged Japan, earth quake leveled Chile, or starving BFE Africa??? It’s not like FEDEX delivers to those places right after a disaster. So how does all that stuff get there??? It travels there via the US Military, through our worldwide logistical system of bases, planes, truck, helicopters, and ships. Every disaster almost anywhere in the world within 48 hours you see pictures of US military forces bringing in food, water, and medicine.

You ask how can I say the US military is a global force of good I ask you how can you say that they are not?

You say you are a global citizen and don’t see boarders, I can live with that. So with you being a global citizen, caring about life and not Nationality, how do you sleep at night knowing of all the death and violence in the world? So let me ask you this, Who will stop (or even oppose) the Sadddams, the Slobodan Milosevics, and Radovan Karadzics if not the US military? Let’s be honest all of these “international coalitions” are really 20 American Soldiers, 2 British, 1 Canadian, and some letters of encouragement from the rest of the world. Granted the US can’t save everyone, and our actions also have our interests in mind (just as your involvement has your Nation’s interest in mind as well), but at least we save some. I can honestly say after watching NATO refuse to do anything in the Balkans until the US committed the majority of the troops, aircraft, and money to pay for it all; that without the US military there wouldn’t be anyone who would stand against tyrants.

As a global citizen how can you not say that US military is a global force of good considering that without them there wouldn’t be ANYONE who stands up the rights of mankind on the global stage? Even if the US can not be everywhere.

[Lazarusrat]

Originally Posted by Dynamopbers

It seems there are some general traits they all have in common:
- Get off your *** and do something productive!!! Like...JOIN THE ARRRMMYY YAAAA
- The experience you will gain at the army is an exhilarating worthwhile journey. It's narrowmindedness disciplinary sheepish routines will make sure we maintain the best army in the world. YAAAA!!!!
- The army is a great thing to have on your resume. You will stand out of the crowd when looking for further employment oppurtunities.

(Before we get started you might be asking yourself “Oh yeah, what makes you qualified to say this stuff??” Well I have served in the Regular Army got out and earned a college degree. I joined the Nation Guard and am currently a senior NCO on M-day (weekend warrior) status. I also joined the corporate workforce and worked my up from Field Engineer to Department head of a mid-sized company. So I would say I am more than qualified to discuss both sides of this issue).

I like hiring military and ex-military people over people who haven ever served. I prefer to hire them over people who have not served because former military people are better under pressure, adapt quicker to changing conditions, can follow orders without ego or personal biasing issues, are usually more motivated, and tend to keep things in perspective better than people who have not served (ie. they don't get bent out of shpe by trivial things). Former or current NCOs are even better because they have leadership training and leadership experience. I don’t have to teach them how to be leaders and leadership skills. In short ex-military people are normally better employees and better leaders than people who have never served or have only attend college.

So yes the military IS a good resume builder as opposed to just college and it does make you stand out on a resume.

So have Joe College who lists
"Graduated with 3.5 GPA in Social Sciences"
Or GI Joe
"Provided first line leadership to a squad of Soldiers and can be depended to perform job even while underpressure"

Who would you hire? Which person brings more assets to your workforce?

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by gwhetzler

So yeah, Canada Americas Hat...

I think South Park made a song about you all up there in the great white north.

But back to the task at hand:

I don't think you will ever understand. You are a hippie liberal through and through. If you don't agree with us get out of this forum. This whole forum was for the military guys and the DEPers wanting to join to get advice.

There are other liberal hippie forums that you should go skulk on over to.

I pretty sure I can say that NONE of us need to have our eyes opened, we are all well aware of what's up and just like to do what we do. You seem to think that we are all drones which couldn't farther from the truth.

Here is the issue, you guys think I'm insane, and I think you guys are insane (for lack of a better word). I am able to see your side, and to an extent expected these types of answers. I met a bunch of guys while travelling who were/are in the military (US and non US) and narrowminded is what came to mind from speaking with them/overhearing them. That's not to demean the intelligent ones, but in general...

Originally Posted by UNDRPRVLGD_V2

You choose to live in a country that was invaded and taken over by the French and then fought over by the British and warred over with the Indians. Your country is nothing different than America. The true difference is that America unlike Canada is a place where men have the ability to grow into giants. I can’t say the same in Canada that is possible. Nonetheless, if and when their comes a time for you to beg for your life and prove you have a skin between your legs maybe you'll understand what it is to be someone that believes in their country, its more than a piece of dirt or cloth on a flag pole. Its history and the men that carried it on their collective backs to make it what it is today. Kids like you just enjoy those fruits with no real measure of ever giving anything back. You suckle the tit that bears you, yet expecting to be given everything as if you deserve it.

I don’t "blindly" follow orders and you taking my words into your own context, I am governed by the articles of war, unlawful orders are not carried out, policies dictate where and what we do like all armies, while we are not going out like the armies of the middle east and killing our population and calling them terrorist you seem to believe something vastly different because once again you have no retrospect of what it is to serve something or belong to a group, organization that has a valued meaning.

You wipe your *** because you don’t want **** ever where, well there you answered my first question to you, why do you question the free will of men who believe they should do more with their lives than you do. Why question those that would take an oath to defend home against enemy foreign and domestic. You don’t want to be a child with ****ty drawers no more than I wanted a country than my forefathers wanted the British, German, Japanese, Russian or any other country that would so willing bear their colors upon my doorstep. Canada has no value to the world and their fore you can’t understand how the world views.

No when I left for war I was 17 years old, I had turned 18 shortly afterwards and killed my first man within minutes of crossing that border into Iraq, I didn’t have your notions of destruction. War is bad MmmKay, thanks for that outstanding stance on the policies of armed conflict I think you should teach it at the war college. War and it’s romanticize are over played in our culture and especially in the Marine Corps because it is part of our rich history. War is the last thing I want to go do, killing as enjoyable as it sounds has grown old and fighting and patrols tires me to no end. Again these are all concepts you will never understand in your lifetime.

EVERY COUNTRY HAS A HISTORY. The problem is being so fond of the fact that the first settlers came here, ruined it for the natives who lived here, had slaves from all over supplying the new land with whatever types of goods. You guys saved the day for WWII and still think your hot **** because of it (and of course, the world, along with me, is glad you did). Your imperialism has never stopped. Grow in giants? Growing in GREED sir, absolute GREED is what the American Dream is. Kids like me enjoy the fruits without taking from others, give without expecting from others. Kids like me give a damn about where the world is going and where government is headed. Tell me what is more noble? Which pertains to a more Christian like philosophy for which America claims to be? Surely you will deny.

"...because once again you have no retrospect of what it is to serve something or belong to a group, organization that has a valued meaning. "

Really dude? We're on a paintball forum, your allowed to assume I was on a team. Value is not to kill.

"Canada has no value to the world and therefore you can’t understand how the world views. "

It is exactly that attitude that puts you above others. No value to the world? In measure of what? Killing to attain dominance?

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

I highly doubt that cosmopolitanism has much to do with this guy's use of "citizen of the world".

How lovely... a mr. Kant said it first (who knows really). True I did not know much of his take on the subject, but ODDLY ENOUGH IT COINCIDES WITH MINE. Is it all that much of a fantasy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmopolitanism

from wikipedia (totally valid I swear):
"In Being for the Other, he writes that there is no "universal moral law," only the sense of responsibility (goodness, mercy, charity) that the Other, in a state of vulnerability, calls forth."

Because killing is doing a good thing right?? go ahead and think so.

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

Have you ever wondered just how all that humanitarian aid gets from places like the US and Canada to Tsunami ravaged Japan, earth quake leveled Chile, or starving BFE Africa??? It’s not like FEDEX delivers to those places right after a disaster. So how does all that stuff get there??? It travels there via the US Military, through our worldwide logistical system of bases, planes, truck, helicopters, and ships. Every disaster almost anywhere in the world within 48 hours you see pictures of US military forces bringing in food, water, and medicine.

You ask how can I say the US military is a global force of good I ask you how can you say that they are not?

You say you are a global citizen and don’t see boarders, I can live with that. So with you being a global citizen, caring about life and not Nationality, how do you sleep at night knowing of all the death and violence in the world? So let me ask you this, Who will stop (or even oppose) the Sadddams, the Slobodan Milosevics, and Radovan Karadzics if not the US military? Let’s be honest all of these “international coalitions” are really 20 American Soldiers, 2 British, 1 Canadian, and some letters of encouragement from the rest of the world. Granted the US can’t save everyone, and our actions also have our interests in mind (just as your involvement has your Nation’s interest in mind as well), but at least we save some. I can honestly say after watching NATO refuse to do anything in the Balkans until the US committed the majority of the troops, aircraft, and money to pay for it all; that without the US military there wouldn’t be anyone who would stand against tyrants.

As a global citizen how can you not say that US military is a global force of good considering that without them there wouldn’t be ANYONE who stands up the rights of mankind on the global stage? Even if the US can not be everywhere.

Never really wondered, they use the military and its branches typically. I am arguing about the other stuff, the maaain stuff the army is there for. Do not paint the military so high as to say every disaster almost anywhere... There's constantly floods, droughts, and all types of natural disaster where they are not to be seen. You guys help Cuba lately?

How do I sleep at night knowing there is death and violence in the world...my oh my. This is what is called life. This is why there is life, we are mortals, all things die. Ego's pollute, emotions get high and things happen. If I were to worry about every cat living on the street in the -20 degrees temps, **** man, I dunno. As people, people with the awareness that this is WRONG we should not let bad things happen (killing, violence, etc.). But greed, power, money all corrupt and thus you have the United States.

What to do with the madmen in this world is what you are asking? Well you must look at their upbringing foremost. Education is so vital, what you take in in this world is what you are most likely to become. I could go on and on about education and how **** it is today, even in my country (yes, I'm sure the States is better.....).

How can I say it is not a global force for good? Well, I just find that statement misleading. To say that it is all good is wrong, to say it is not good at all too is....not the truth as well. It is a two sided coin, in one sense they do so much good for the American people and the preservation of human rights and yadda yadda. On the other, there's **** like the patriot act (bogus), constant aims for American wealth through the military, picking and choosing who they like depending on how much they support the US.





All I am saying is that we can do better, we do not need guns at all (OMG how dare I), or perhaps for hunting. To think that the state of the world, where money rules all is good, is a crime to humanity in itself. Yes, let those long shifts run in China so we can benefit. Yes, let money buy you out of any crime you commit. Yes, let corporations run the government. Yes, let the government tell you lies that are more soothing to hear than that which is true. Yes, let the military play out your dirty work, so that capitalism survives, so that we can still live great for the time we are here on this earth. Yes, **** the future, use all of our resources and hope in technology to remedy our disastrous 100+ years of industrialization.

My goal is not to offend the person, it is to attack the ideas. I've been ridiculed in this thread, cool....that was expected, someone behind the screen might laugh. But what is instilled in you over time is so important, so crucial, because through your thoughts you emulate that which you believe. I have no hatred toward anyone individually, just to make it clear iight coo, lets keep er goin

[barrel roll]

You misunderstood quite a bit, once I get to a keyboard I will elaborate.

Good on you for admitting you knew nothing of Kant.

[gwhetzler]

Oh good sir, I NEVER said that you were insane. I said you are a hippie liberal an uber hippie liberal at that, much worse.

You came asking us to explain our lifestyle, morals, and choices. Then mock anyone who tries to explain with you hipster lingo.

At this point I would find it fitting that you got served 2 points and given a break from PBN for trolling (what you are doing by acting this way in this Military Forum)

Maybe you should just agree to disagree and then take a hike.

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

You misunderstood quite a bit, once I get to a keyboard I will elaborate.

Good on you for admitting you knew nothing of Kant.

Please do. Lol I know of Kant, I didn't know he mentioned anything about cosmopolitanism that's all.

Originally Posted by gwhetzler

Oh good sir, I NEVER said that you were insane. I said you are a hippie liberal an uber hippie liberal at that, much worse.

You came asking us to explain our lifestyle, morals, and choices. Then mock anyone who tries to explain with you hipster lingo.

At this point I would find it fitting that you got served 2 points and given a break from PBN for trolling (what you are doing by acting this way in this Military Forum)

Maybe you should just agree to disagree and then take a hike.

Fair enough, in general taking ones life unless yours is directly at stake would, for me, be insane. I suppose that's what I mean...but the word insane isn't all too fitting..

Straight up didn't know what trolling reeaally meant, thought it was like being a complete nincumpoop in a thread relating in no way to the topic. Though I can't see why we can't go on and try and explain ourselves. What typically has happened is on both sides we've only input explaining our point of view and not so much tackling what the other has said.....to an extent.

[evilpotato]

Marine Corps doesnt want you to join to blow **** up. They want you to join to spin rifles and have a full coast line assault delivering AID!! Im infantry currently in afghanistan and havent killed a baby or a puppy. The ones not a part of the conflict and the ones sitting at home complaining about the war are the ones that dont understand it the most. I literally laugh at peoples thoughts on the issues here. Its funny

[Lazarusrat]

Originally Posted by Dynamopbers

Never really wondered, they use the military and its branches typically. I am arguing about the other stuff, the maaain stuff the army is there for. Do not paint the military so high as to say every disaster almost anywhere... There's constantly floods, droughts, and all types of natural disaster where they are not to be seen. You guys help Cuba lately?

So who was there??? You counter that the US didn't help Cuba but don't respond to the fact that it is the US military who provide a majority of the aid when aid is given anywhere in the world.

So tell me do you critisize the Salavation Army and the Good Will because people go with out food and adaquit clothing or do you only hold the US military to such impossible standards?

How do I sleep at night knowing there is death and violence in the world...my oh my. This is what is called life. This is why there is life, we are mortals, all things die. Ego's pollute, emotions get high and things happen. If I were to worry about every cat living on the street in the -20 degrees temps, **** man, I dunno. As people, people with the awareness that this is WRONG we should not let bad things happen (killing, violence, etc.). But greed, power, money all corrupt and thus you have the United States.

As oppose to that shinning city on the hill known as Canada??? A land that was also carved out of the North American wilderness by the eradiction of the Native people of North America. A land whose government is just as corupt as its Southern neighbor the US. A land that even though it is economicly much smaller than the US it still fields military power in Afghanistan and was also in Iraq from the begining. Ironic that you single America out and yet turn a blind eye to your own country. Again I ask you, If you single out America how can you sleep at night knowing that your country is doing the same America is doing, in the exact same places, but because of your nation's economic limitations doesn't perform humanitarian missions like the US military does? Seems to me a true man of world would insist that if his nation only had enough money to help his fellow man or wage war for politcial interests his nation would choose humanity instead of posting rants against a country who is economicly blessed enough to both wage war and perform humanitarian aid.

What to do with the madmen in this world is what you are asking? Well you must look at their upbringing foremost. Education is so vital, what you take in in this world is what you are most likely to become. I could go on and on about education and how **** it is today, even in my country (yes, I'm sure the States is better.....).

If you truely believe that men do evil because of their education and up-bringing, I wish you the best of luck in life as your world is not the same world I live in. I live in a world where even children raised in loving homes, going to the best schools, put on trench coats and murder their class mates for reasons that defy logic. I live in a world where greed and lust for power drive men to commit mass murder and genocide. No ammount of education, understanding, or caring can change man's dark side in my opinion. With that view the only way to remian safe is by being prepared to do equal or greater violence if needed. To which a standing Army is required.

How can I say it is not a global force for good? Well, I just find that statement misleading. To say that it is all good is wrong, to say it is not good at all too is....not the truth as well. It is a two sided coin, in one sense they do so much good for the American people and the preservation of human rights and yadda yadda. On the other, there's **** like the patriot act (bogus), constant aims for American wealth through the military, picking and choosing who they like depending on how much they support the US.

You seem to be confused about the US military and its role in US politics and policy creation. The military didn't create the Patriot act, the military doesn't even enforce the Patriot act. In fact the US military is restricted, by law, from enforcing civil laws within the US.

Your agruement that the US military is "bad" because they help carry out the US' foreign policy seems a logical as you saying "The police are bad because they carry out the laws the our elected officals make!" Granted some Policemen, like some Soldiers, are corrupt but when you look at the Police force as a whole, the job they perform, and the manner in which they perform it becomes clear that they do a benifical service to the community and mankind in general. In my opinion when you look at teh US military as a whole, the job that they perform, and teh manner in which they perform it; they too provide a benfical service to the world as a whole. Of course not everyone would agree with that just as some would never agree that the Police do good either.

All I am saying is that we can do better, we do not need guns at all (OMG how dare I), or perhaps for hunting. To think that the state of the world, where money rules all is good, is a crime to humanity in itself. Yes, let those long shifts run in China so we can benefit. Yes, let money buy you out of any crime you commit. Yes, let corporations run the government. Yes, let the government tell you lies that are more soothing to hear than that which is true. Yes, let the military play out your dirty work, so that capitalism survives, so that we can still live great for the time we are here on this earth. Yes, **** the future, use all of our resources and hope in technology to remedy our disastrous 100+ years of industrialization.

My goal is not to offend the person, it is to attack the ideas. I've been ridiculed in this thread, cool....that was expected, someone behind the screen might laugh. But what is instilled in you over time is so important, so crucial, because through your thoughts you emulate that which you believe. I have no hatred toward anyone individually, just to make it clear iight coo, lets keep er goin

As I read your post, posted on a machine made of plastic on a forum fuelled by the depletion of fossil fuels I can't help but wonder at the sinsairity of your posts.

I live by simple rules; I will never ask you to do anything I will not. I expect you to do what I tell you. If you do not know how to do what I ask to standard tell me and I will teach you; as I would rather teach your correctly the first time than for you to waste your time doing it wrong and then waste both of our time as I make you do it over right. Finally I expect you to do the "right" thing, even if I don't tell you to.

By my rules I could never make a post like yours for the fact that to me you are asking others to do what you do not do yourself. You complain about the distaster of 100 years of industialization and yet you yourself are both a product and a contributor of that industialization.

You wish to "open" my eyes, I can live with that, however I also expect that you open your eyes to what I have to say as well. In my opinion your eyes are as closed a blind man and yet you shout at me to see the light. just saying.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

You know what Dyna, you would make a great slave for an invading army if you weren't killed in the invasion running around like a huge leaking *****.

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

So who was there??? You counter that the US didn't help Cuba but don't respond to the fact that it is the US military who provide a majority of the aid when aid is given anywhere in the world.

So tell me do you critisize the Salavation Army and the Good Will because people go with out food and adaquit clothing or do you only hold the US military to such impossible standards?

Who was where? In Cuba? The whole thing about Cuba is that they don't want you going on their land and running the show...Big deal, a lot more can be done to those in need. Second portion imo needs no explanation.

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

As oppose to that shinning city on the hill known as Canada??? A land that was also carved out of the North American wilderness by the eradiction of the Native people of North America. A land whose government is just as corupt as its Southern neighbor the US. A land that even though it is economicly much smaller than the US it still fields military power in Afghanistan and was also in Iraq from the begining. Ironic that you single America out and yet turn a blind eye to your own country. Again I ask you, If you single out America how can you sleep at night knowing that your country is doing the same America is doing, in the exact same places, but because of your nation's economic limitations doesn't perform humanitarian missions like the US military does? Seems to me a true man of world would insist that if his nation only had enough money to help his fellow man or wage war for politcial interests his nation would choose humanity instead of posting rants against a country who is economicly blessed enough to both wage war and perform humanitarian aid.

Dude...is it not evident enough that the history of my great, liberal, vast, beautiful, awe-inspiring, brilliant, hockey-loving country of Canaada is very low on my list of **** I care about? Yes, Canada's corrupt, no, I don't agree with war at any point in time. What they do internationally is that really troubling me at night? Nope, you guys pretty much run the world currently, who's not to follow the leader.

A true man of the world and his nation? You must not understand the concept of cosmopolitanism....There are no nations, we are one, the earth is one, there is no Planet X to go to.... True, there are cultures, countries are really cultures...The sole reason why I do not go and protest everyday, always talk about how poopy the world is, or however you may look at it....Is because, well, as those who realize what a gift it is to have this, this life, this conscious awareness, you begin to realize you and only you can change how you project yourself onto the world. What I'm getting at is...imagine, one day...believe it or not, you DIDN'T know (I really shouldn't say know, moreso "what they say") what was going on half way around the world. So why the big fuss now? What is the purpose in this media letting you know about blah blah blah? What does it concern me unless it is not in front of me or directly affecting me? People love looking outside for answers to their problems....when the power you have is literally not taught (atleast in Canada).

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

If you truely believe that men do evil because of their education and up-bringing, I wish you the best of luck in life as your world is not the same world I live in. I live in a world where even children raised in loving homes, going to the best schools, put on trench coats and murder their class mates for reasons that defy logic. I live in a world where greed and lust for power drive men to commit mass murder and genocide. No ammount of education, understanding, or caring can change man's dark side in my opinion. With that view the only way to remian safe is by being prepared to do equal or greater violence if needed. To which a standing Army is required.

I think your portraying it as if that those would be the sole reason man does evil acts. Regardless of the cases you speak of, you don't freaking know, you have no idea about what these peoples lives were like. What you should know is that since GUNS are there, they sure can do it. And the likelyhood of their upbringing having an effect on their actions is high.

I really, really liked this part:
I live in a world where greed and lust for power drive men to commit mass murder and genocide.

So do I, and I think its terrible. The US should stop killing people and supporting likewise politics.

You have got to be kidding me with this:
No ammount of education, understanding, or caring can change man's dark side in my opinion. With that view the only way to remian safe is by being prepared to do equal or greater violence if needed. To which a standing Army is required.

The first part especially. Like dude...it is evident you have never felt true love (rough...sorry). Propose darkness is evil and light is good. Darkness is merely the absence of light. Love cannot come to fruition when it is not understood. And thus comes your American ridiculous philosophy "theres a lot of crazy mother****ers out there, make sure you gotta gat to protect yourself"

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

You seem to be confused about the US military and its role in US politics and policy creation. The military didn't create the Patriot act, the military doesn't even enforce the Patriot act. In fact the US military is restricted, by law, from enforcing civil laws within the US.

Your agruement that the US military is "bad" because they help carry out the US' foreign policy seems a logical as you saying "The police are bad because they carry out the laws the our elected officals make!" Granted some Policemen, like some Soldiers, are corrupt but when you look at the Police force as a whole, the job they perform, and the manner in which they perform it becomes clear that they do a benifical service to the community and mankind in general. In my opinion when you look at teh US military as a whole, the job that they perform, and teh manner in which they perform it; they too provide a benfical service to the world as a whole. Of course not everyone would agree with that just as some would never agree that the Police do good either.

I will let one of Americas most prominent philosophers take this...Noam Chomsky, you know the guy? Look up what he thinks of the U.S. Foreign policy...

Something interesting after a quick google search

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20040519.htm

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

As I read your post, posted on a machine made of plastic on a forum fuelled by the depletion of fossil fuels I can't help but wonder at the sinsairity of your posts.

I live by simple rules; I will never ask you to do anything I will not. I expect you to do what I tell you. If you do not know how to do what I ask to standard tell me and I will teach you; as I would rather teach your correctly the first time than for you to waste your time doing it wrong and then waste both of our time as I make you do it over right. Finally I expect you to do the "right" thing, even if I don't tell you to.

By my rules I could never make a post like yours for the fact that to me you are asking others to do what you do not do yourself. You complain about the distaster of 100 years of industialization and yet you yourself are both a product and a contributor of that industialization.

You wish to "open" my eyes, I can live with that, however I also expect that you open your eyes to what I have to say as well. In my opinion your eyes are as closed a blind man and yet you shout at me to see the light. just saying.

I was 13 when I began playing paintball up to about 17. I agree with much of your simple rules aside from expecting others to do what I tell them. I am merely exposing the faults in the current system. True I am a contributor to the industrialization, but Im not a menonite, Im going to use the technologyéknowledge the human race has discovered over the past couple thousands of years.

Heres some more links that may be of interest to you guys in the military forum

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/gros...rventions.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/unlimit...of-war/5314896

If you say "what world power would not like to continue to dominate." or "these are just internet links, they're not necessarily true" Ima slap you man lol

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by UNDRPRVLGD_V2

You know what Dyna, you would make a great slave for an invading army if you weren't killed in the invasion running around like a huge leaking *****.

So random dude...check out them links I put above, don't bother reading my ****. I'm just a modern day hippie afterall.

[KingTomis]

Are you coming in here high as **** and trying to debate?


It pleases me that there are people like you in the world. Whenever I think my day sucks I remind myself of how ****ing retarded people like you are, who claim to stand for something but are just winy voices in the wind, or rambling posts online. You live in a lie, deluded by your childlike comprehension of the world yet claim to want to help us see things clearly?

Your a joke

[Lazarusrat]

Time for TL/DR theater...
Me:The US and US military is responsable for providing, transporting, and delivering almost all the humanitarian aid in the world.
You:Yeah but what about helping Cuba?
Me:Your right, we didn't help Cuba. So who stepped up and filled the US' shoes providing aid to Cuba since the US refused?
You:Well nobody did, but only because they didn't want help in the first place...
Me:WFT So the US should have helped Cuba after they got flattend by hurricane; but when no-one else showed up to help that's ok because they didn't want help in the first place???


Mind if I ask you what rules do you live your life by? Before you answer think about it for a while first.

The first part especially. Like dude...it is evident you have never felt true love (rough...sorry). Propose darkness is evil and light is good. Darkness is merely the absence of light. Love cannot come to fruition when it is not understood. And thus comes your American ridiculous philosophy "theres a lot of crazy mother****ers out there, make sure you gotta gat to protect yourself"

So are you are trying to tell me that Pol Pot and his buddies were not evil, they just didn't see the light? If they would have just loved they wouldn't have commited the worst mass murders since WWII? No offence but I think you are delusional... That we don't need weapons and Armies to protect us... How do you stop a group of people who are well armed, believe that society should be purely argitarian, those who are not farmers and those who who do not "love the party" must be killed without mercy or exception, without the protection of your own weapons and Army? With my 20/20 hindsight vision I'm sure if you would have told the people of Cambodia that their apathy in oppsing the Khmer Rouge would result in 25% of the entire population of Cambodia being murdered in extermination "farms" more of them would taken up arms against Pol Pot.

[Lazarusrat]

Ok I'm back for a few and would like to talk some more, if you don't mind?

Lets talk about Naom's interview...

He starts by saying that IF we judged All US presidents by teh Nuremberg standards they would be hung. Ok lets look at that? What exactly was a captial offence at Nurmeberg? Starting a war? No members of German's OKH were hung for starting a war but they did get jail time. Supporting a war and genocide? No, Albert Speer got jail time but he wasn't hung either. The only thing that actually got people hung was commiting genocide. Now please prove to me that any of the modern US Presidents deliberately planned the extrimanation of an entire race or people... Yeah thought so.

He then talks about the Sanction against Iraq in the 90's... Lets talk about the sanctions... What should the UN done about Saddam? The man had only invaded Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia, used chemical weapons on women and children, and run death squads. So they should have done nothing? Call me crazy but that sounds like a terrible idea. "Bad Saddam, now go play nice with teh other kids". Remove Saddam from power? Well we did that in 2003 and look how popular that was. Sounds like teh only option left IS sanctions on non-humanitarian aid to iraq which is EXACTLY what they did do that Noam is complaining about.

I loved his next part. Lets quote this one...

JEREMY PAXMAN:
But there is a whole slur of countries in eastern Europe right now that would say we are better off now than we were when we were living under the Soviet Empire. As a consequence of how the west behaved.

NOAM CHOMSKY:
Well, and there is a lot of countries in US domains, like Central America, the Caribbean who wish that they could be free of American domination. We don't pay much attention to what happens there but they do. Look, in the 1980s when the current incumbents were in their Reganite phase, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered in Central America.

So lets break this down and think about it.
Jremy states that the US actions led to the freedom of Europe from Soviet oppression. To which Noam agrees and counters with Central America. What Noam fails to mention what would have happend IF the US did nothing... IF the US did nothing the people in Europe would have been screwwed and Central America would also have fallen under Soviet control and those people would have also been screwwed just like their Eastern European counter parts. So when you think about the choice is freedom for both people of Eastern Europe and Cenral America at the cost "hundreds of thousands" people in Central America OR we could have saved those hundreds of thousands of people at the cost of EVERY in Eastern Europe and Central America. If I had to make the horrible choice of saving several million people at the cost of several hundred thousand or doing nothing and comdeming all of them I'm choosing to save as many people as I can. What would you do?

So lets look at all of this together...

He's completely wrong about hanging US Presidents for War crimes against humanity. He rails against the sanctions but is also against doing nothing and is also against removing Saddam by force. So he is against everything and supports nothing but still feels something should be done. Finally he admits that US actions helped millions in Europe at the cost of thousands in Central America but that also means that teh US actions prevented those in Central America from suffering the same fate as that of Eastern Europe. So my question is what the **** is this complaining about?

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

Time for TL/DR theater...
Me:The US and US military is responsable for providing, transporting, and delivering almost all the humanitarian aid in the world.
You:Yeah but what about helping Cuba?
Me:Your right, we didn't help Cuba. So who stepped up and filled the US' shoes providing aid to Cuba since the US refused?
You:Well nobody did, but only because they didn't want help in the first place...
Me:WFT So the US should have helped Cuba after they got flattend by hurricane; but when no-one else showed up to help that's ok because they didn't want help in the first place???


Mind if I ask you what rules do you live your life by? Before you answer think about it for a while first.


So are you are trying to tell me that Pol Pot and his buddies were not evil, they just didn't see the light? If they would have just loved they wouldn't have commited the worst mass murders since WWII? No offence but I think you are delusional... That we don't need weapons and Armies to protect us... How do you stop a group of people who are well armed, believe that society should be purely argitarian, those who are not farmers and those who who do not "love the party" must be killed without mercy or exception, without the protection of your own weapons and Army? With my 20/20 hindsight vision I'm sure if you would have told the people of Cambodia that their apathy in oppsing the Khmer Rouge would result in 25% of the entire population of Cambodia being murdered in extermination "farms" more of them would taken up arms against Pol Pot.

I don't necessarily have rules for which I live by. Rules are there to be broken, keep people in order, and establish a set of standards (but is dumb since everyone is diffferent). What rules do I live by hmmmmmmmm... everyone is equal, everyone should be treated with respect upon meeting them, don't judge a book by its cover. That sort of thing...

About Cuba: If they're not with us, they're against us.
http://www.internationalist.org/biow...tcuba0503.html
http://www.maebrussell.com/Health/CI...g%20Virus.html
Just google it.

How do you defend that...I mean really.

Here's one that would replicate you and I:

http://www.chomsky.info/debates/20020530.htm lol

Anyone who wants power wants more, it's always more more more. A man who is fueled by ego will never understand, they will always strive for that next thrill, the next accomplishment to suit their egotistical needs. More land, more power, more money, more this more that...

Originally Posted by Lazarusrat

Ok I'm back for a few and would like to talk some more, if you don't mind?

Lets talk about Naom's interview...

He starts by saying that IF we judged All US presidents by teh Nuremberg standards they would be hung. Ok lets look at that? What exactly was a captial offence at Nurmeberg? Starting a war? No members of German's OKH were hung for starting a war but they did get jail time. Supporting a war and genocide? No, Albert Speer got jail time but he wasn't hung either. The only thing that actually got people hung was commiting genocide. Now please prove to me that any of the modern US Presidents deliberately planned the extrimanation of an entire race or people... Yeah thought so.

He then talks about the Sanction against Iraq in the 90's... Lets talk about the sanctions... What should the UN done about Saddam? The man had only invaded Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia, used chemical weapons on women and children, and run death squads. So they should have done nothing? Call me crazy but that sounds like a terrible idea. "Bad Saddam, now go play nice with teh other kids". Remove Saddam from power? Well we did that in 2003 and look how popular that was. Sounds like teh only option left IS sanctions on non-humanitarian aid to iraq which is EXACTLY what they did do that Noam is complaining about.

I loved his next part. Lets quote this one...

So lets break this down and think about it.
Jremy states that the US actions led to the freedom of Europe from Soviet oppression. To which Noam agrees and counters with Central America. What Noam fails to mention what would have happend IF the US did nothing... IF the US did nothing the people in Europe would have been screwwed and Central America would also have fallen under Soviet control and those people would have also been screwwed just like their Eastern European counter parts. So when you think about the choice is freedom for both people of Eastern Europe and Cenral America at the cost "hundreds of thousands" people in Central America OR we could have saved those hundreds of thousands of people at the cost of EVERY in Eastern Europe and Central America. If I had to make the horrible choice of saving several million people at the cost of several hundred thousand or doing nothing and comdeming all of them I'm choosing to save as many people as I can. What would you do?

So lets look at all of this together...

He's completely wrong about hanging US Presidents for War crimes against humanity. He rails against the sanctions but is also against doing nothing and is also against removing Saddam by force. So he is against everything and supports nothing but still feels something should be done. Finally he admits that US actions helped millions in Europe at the cost of thousands in Central America but that also means that teh US actions prevented those in Central America from suffering the same fate as that of Eastern Europe. So my question is what the **** is this complaining about?

I suppose Chomsky was stating that an "act of terror" or "an act against humanity" was the offence. Not necessarily genocide, though more atrocious than terrorizing people yes. Quick google search and wiki says this...:
Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace
Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace
War crimes
Crimes against humanity


K so, let me break down why having Soviet Russia was a good thing for the United States to spread "democracy" over those 40+ years. Firstly, fear. The fear of a Soviet attack allowed them to justify to everyone (the world) why they must have nuclear weapons, and increase the military. Second, they could go into countries, claim they are spreading communist policies/government and then get their dirty work done and establish a governing body to side with the United States. Third, because the Soviet Union was a closed society, they could literally make up whatever they wanted about them. I'm sure theres more but my stoner mind can't think of any.

Another thing, in some peoples opinion, the constant awareness the US had to the Soviet Union made it last longer than it did. Why? Because they were trying to prove it would work, that it were not a failure. UHH NO obviously that ****s corrupt. The people knew it was corrupt. What is interesting is that the reports from the newspapers and media said one thing, but the people knew it was a lie. Perhaps not all a lie, but that the government did not have their interest at heart. The opposite here, we believe the media to be telling the truth... And noone really questions it.

Since my parents came from Poland, I have heard plenty of stories on how it used to be. Polish engineers had created a beautiful car, more economical at the time better than anything on the roads. The Russians turned it down because of it was a Polish design. Ego coming into play here? I think so. Given I was told this by Polish people so it has bias. Anyway thats a lil off topic...

US involvement in Argentina...
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/09/arg-s06.html
US involvement in general in Latin America:
http://www.zompist.com/latam.html

What they were actually doing to put it TL;DR is whiping out governments to instill systems (didn't necessarily have to be capitalism) favorable to the US. Logical to keep your reign going yes?

I do however agree that should a country in the world be in tyranny, it is better to overthrow the leader and have thousands of deaths, than have him kill millions.

Must you go to extremes when saying "So he is against everything and supports nothing but still feels something should be done." He is merely stating the faults. Something the media never does. As am I. Ive always had great experiences in America, its a very innovative society, quick and on its feet. Lots to be praised for. Its just that the elite are ruining you. Just as the 2008 crisis happened. Iceland put those mother****ers to jail, you guys bailed em out and no one does a damn thing because the media is so interrelated it doesnt get the truth out.

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20101026.htm theres another goodie. Take it with an open mind and a grain of salt

[Dynamopbers]

Originally Posted by KingTomis

Are you coming in here high as **** and trying to debate?


It pleases me that there are people like you in the world. Whenever I think my day sucks I remind myself of how ****ing retarded people like you are, who claim to stand for something but are just winy voices in the wind, or rambling posts online. You live in a lie, deluded by your childlike comprehension of the world yet claim to want to help us see things clearly?

Your a joke

See this is where I said you think I`m insane, and I think your insane. big LOL

[KingTomis]

The difference is that I live in the real world whereas you seem to exist in some fantasy, utopian, kumbaya world that doesn't exist. I'm sane.

If you think your the sane one, you should probably seek help. LOL'ing about it doesnt change the fact that your views of the world are childish, overly simplistic and extremely naive.

This subforum has the most world traveled regular posters you will find on pbnation, we have lived, trained, and fought all over the world, which has obviously changed our views on life and our outlook of the world. We speak with experience.

What experience do you have outside of Canada?

[Dynamopbers]

Well I live in one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world. This past summer I travelled Europe, staying there for 5 months. I went to: Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Holland, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Denmark, and Sweden. I've been to England, Cuba, US as well. I travelled solo when I did, so I didn't feel at home speaking English easily with my colleagues as you folks do.

If it is not evident enough, yes, the current state of society is that which you perceive to be true. This can change however. It is imminent. Can it be better? **** ya...why don't we make it better? Is all I'm gettin at.

edit: and a group of people made up what you consider "the real world".

[the other one]

Note: I didn't read the entire thread. Just these posts, as they are the relevant ones.

Your posts are edited for clarity and ease of understanding. If I have deleted any necessary part of your posts, let me know.

Originally Posted by Dynamopbers

1. So...living in Canada and having some of your lovely channels I am exposed to some of the advertising putforth by the US army/navy. It's...interesting to say the least.

2. Is noone astonished by the **** they say on these ads?

3. So, I guess what I'm trying to ask is....Why in the world would anyone risk their life for the neo-imperialistic superpower the United States is?

4. How much (dare I say) brainwashing goes on?

5. Just trying to open up minds

1. Hello.

2. Commercials are just that: advertisements. I don't expect to buy a six-pack of coors light and suddenly be partying with girls in bikinis, playing volleyball and "tapping the Rockies", and I've never heard bullfrogs say "bud-weis-er". It's the same concept.

3. Everyone's reasons are different. My own reason was because I was homeless at the time, and wanted a bit of a better life. I chose the military option over a job at McDonald's because.... Well, that's me. I suppose many of the reasons are similar to those in the Canadian military, or the British military when your Monarchy decided to conquer and colonize the world. After all.... Both the Canadians and Brits are in Afghanistan, fighting the same fight as Americans.

4. The same amount as every other military since the beginning of time.

5. I don't think a paintball forum has ever "opened minds" enough to change someone's outlook on life. You will not be the first to change this.

Originally Posted by Dynamopbers

1. If it is not evident enough, yes, the current state of society is that which you perceive to be true. This can change however. It is imminent. Can it be better? **** ya...why don't we make it better? Is all I'm gettin at.

2. edit: and a group of people made up what you consider "the real world".

1. I'm making the world a better place as far as my sphere of influence. Assuming that I can change policy or the recruiting practices of the military is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time, as both are far outside of my influence.

2. Please stop with your childish assumptions.

[Dynamopbers]

If I must respond to only one comment *sigh*

Originally Posted by the other one

Note: I didn't read the entire thread. Just these posts, as they are the relevant ones.

Your posts are edited for clarity and ease of understanding. If I have deleted any necessary part of your posts, let me know.



1. Hello.

2. Commercials are just that: advertisements. I don't expect to buy a six-pack of coors light and suddenly be partying with girls in bikinis, playing volleyball and "tapping the Rockies", and I've never heard bullfrogs say "bud-weis-er". It's the same concept.

3. Everyone's reasons are different. My own reason was because I was homeless at the time, and wanted a bit of a better life. I chose the military option over a job at McDonald's because.... Well, that's me. I suppose many of the reasons are similar to those in the Canadian military, or the British military when your Monarchy decided to conquer and colonize the world. After all.... Both the Canadians and Brits are in Afghanistan, fighting the same fight as Americans.

4. The same amount as every other military since the beginning of time.

5. I don't think a paintball forum has ever "opened minds" enough to change someone's outlook on life. You will not be the first to change this.



1. I'm making the world a better place as far as my sphere of influence. Assuming that I can change policy or the recruiting practices of the military is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time, as both are far outside of my influence.

2. Please stop with your childish assumptions.

Fair enough on not reading the whole thing...didn't bother to check if you had missed anything, I may be repeating myself as a result.

1 Hey, nice blog.

2 Of course. However, the constant bombardment of these messages, whether or not you are conscious of it, effects you. You take that in. You remember these commercials, you see the message and how its presented. It's difficult to "undo" after so many years. You can actually lie in advertisements. To an extent of course, however, how the hell is that ok if this is what the masses see?

3 Coming from homelessness to that, way to go, good job. Doesn't matter to me if there's another 5 countries backing up the States. They rule. They have an immense amount of power. They legit go into countries to **** **** up for the locals, and establish either: 1. Military base 2. Democracy 3. Better relations for business 4. Let the area know we'll be back when things aren't going our way

4 Is that right? Can we not stand up (primarily those IN the military) and say, wait wait wait, what are we putting are lives on the line for?

5 Oy yoy yoy. Perhaps. And perhaps out of 1200+ views minus my 20, somebody thought differently about the way their country goes about foreign policy.

6 I see what your saying with the sphere of influence. However, we've got this great thing called the internet to discuss ideas orrr put up blogs. To which, whatever the reason, may influence one. You say I, I'm going for we. If enough people question the idiocy in their elected officials, you will see change. All change like that begins with awareness and understanding. It must be exposed, not suppressed like the media does.

7 Childish it seems at first. Do you know of an Edward Bernays? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays He said, well lets change "propaganda" into..."Public Relations!!!" and the sheep shall follow.

Also an interesting and relevant piece of video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01e8-zSLkg0

No I'm not influenced by the comments...though some coincide with my views, and yes chomsky can be boring to watch lol

edit: added the numbers...