[quakcer]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

By forcing others to follow our form of government we are undermining the declaration of independence and by extension the existence America itself.

Then why are you an obama supporter?

[TheSilentAssassin]

Swing and a miss there pal.

People have the right to choose how they are governed. We already tried to force middle eastern countries to become western democracies and how did that turn out? Iran in 79? Egypt? Libya? Must I go on?

But even more crucial than the effectiveness is the principle. We as a nation declared that we were being governed unfairly and choose to form our own government that we choose for ourselves. If we start saying that all other countries (with different people, cultures, values, etc) should follow our political systems we are negating our own validity as a nation.

But since you brought up national politics, as I have said, people have a right to choose how they are governed. If we want to fall into this (false) dichotomy of government dependence vs self reliance, people still get to and have chosen apparently the "left" side (and most likely will again this election). So recognize that this country has chosen "left" politics (and will again in another few months) and deal with it.

[jamest91]

damn my bad guys... i put lol instead of the nododgy face so everyone mustve thought i was serious. please forget wat u read and move on. thank you!

[quakcer]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Swing and a miss there pal.

People have the right to choose how they are governed. We already tried to force middle eastern countries to become western democracies and how did that turn out? Iran in 79? Egypt? Libya? Must I go on?

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL30588.pdf

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by quakcer

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL30588.pdf

What's your point? And I'm confused if you intentionally ignored the point of my post or if you truly don't understand.

[barrel roll]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Swing and a miss there pal.

People have the right to choose how they are governed. We already tried to force middle eastern countries to become western democracies and how did that turn out? Iran in 79? Egypt? Libya? Must I go on?

But even more crucial than the effectiveness is the principle. We as a nation declared that we were being governed unfairly and choose to form our own government that we choose for ourselves. If we start saying that all other countries (with different people, cultures, values, etc) should follow our political systems we are negating our own validity as a nation.

But since you brought up national politics, as I have said, people have a right to choose how they are governed. If we want to fall into this (false) dichotomy of government dependence vs self reliance, people still get to and have chosen apparently the "left" side (and most likely will again this election). So recognize that this country has chosen "left" politics (and will again in another few months) and deal with it.

If you want to get technical, the founding colonialists felt the crown was denying them their rights granted under the Magna Carta. They wanted the liberties that were promised to them under that, not to found new states.

[quakcer]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

What's your point? And I'm confused if you intentionally ignored the point of my post or if you truly don't understand.

Why don't you read it first

[TheSilentAssassin]

I'm ignoring the troll who posts an irrelevant 93 page document and tells me to read it without prefacing it and giving me any reason to want to waste my time.

Originally Posted by barrel roll

If you want to get technical, the founding colonialists felt the crown was denying them their rights granted under the Magna Carta. They wanted the liberties that were promised to them under that, not to found new states.

While I'm aware I'm oversimplifying it (we're on a paintball forum with a rather dumb population to be frank) you cannot deny the founders objected to the lack of UNIVERSAL rights given to them by the Magna Carta. They were upset because they were promised them but more so because they inherently deserved them.

[quakcer]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

I'm ignoring the troll who posts an irrelevant 93 page document and tells me to read it without prefacing it and giving me any reason to want to waste my time.

It has a summary on the 2nd page, are you really that lazy?

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by quakcer

It has a summary on the 2nd page, are you really that lazy?

It has literally no relevance to the discussion at hand. At most it is a strawman.

[EvanActon]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

By forcing others to follow our form of government we are undermining the declaration of independence and by extension the existence America itself.

so you support communism, socialism, and dictatorships?

[StellarKnight]

Originally Posted by EvanActon

so you support communism, socialism, and dictatorships?

Yes, because we've seen the wonders associated with exporting democracy by the barrel of a gun. If you question this idiotic assertion, you're a communist.

Why is this the fallback assertion when certain people are called on their nonsense?

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by EvanActon

so you support communism, socialism, and dictatorships?

Support and minding your own business are different paths bud.

[EvanActon]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

Support and minding your own business are different paths bud.

mind your own business? yep, we should have just let hitler kill off the rest of the jews and europe becuase it wasnt any of our business.

[licence2kill]

if you can't see the difference between WWII and, say, the Iraq invasion then you're pretty much hopeless.

[OhIoCoNtRActKilLa]

Why are we arguing over this pointless ****? I just want to discuss possoble solutions to the problem that I have targeted. Are there any? Or are we all just ****ed? We can't pull the country in two different directions and expect any significant results.

[barrel roll]

Originally Posted by EvanActon

so you support communism, socialism, and dictatorships?

I love nihilistic arguments.

[scienceguy]

Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa

Why are we arguing over this pointless ****? I just want to discuss possoble solutions to the problem that I have targeted. Are there any? Or are we all just ****ed? We can't pull the country in two different directions and expect any significant results.

There are none. It's a side effect of a free society. If you want an example of a place with one political opinion, try North Korea.

Sad but true.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by EvanActon

mind your own business? yep, we should have just let hitler kill off the rest of the jews and europe becuase it wasnt any of our business.

Do you kiss your mother with that stupid?

[2thdoc]

1. Entitlements- those that make there own way and those that rely on others to do "help them"!
2. Religion- those that believe we are here for a higher purpose and those that don't care.
3. Wisdom- those that understand the actual consequences of relying on the government, parents, drugs and alcohol or others for support instead of God.
4. Those that are aware of the "morality of human nature" and those that rebel against it. (for example: We can all agree that murdering another innocent human being is morally wrong, however there have been millions of live birth abortions performed in the US.)
5. Those that understand in order for people to be employed productively, there must be an atmosphere that is friendly towards "big business or small businesses." WELFARE DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE TO GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT!
6. Those that understand 14% is the true capital gains tax and that by making more money one can give substantially more away to charities.. $6 million (Romney)... $200,000 (Obama) ---charitable contributions

[Tuff]

Originally Posted by Treghc

How about cutting back on military funding by bringing our military personnel back to patrol the border? We cut back on big brother-ing other countries, invest that money in to research and education so that we can fund more activities to increase domestic production. We get our industrial workers back to the big and bold so that, should we ever actually need to protect ourselves, we can manufacture everything needed at an unprecedented pace. Helps the economy, helps put us back in the forefront of education and scientific research (two enormous drivers for expanding the economy) and cuts our military budget while offering more protection at home, including taking care of our own borders.

Defense spending leads to research and jobs by creating ideas that people can build upon. Such as the Internet, which created hundreds of thousands of jobs. They put people to work creating parts, and many of those jobs remain here. You don't think we want India or China making components for an updated neutron bomb, do you? Too risky to fall into enemy hands, companies like Raytheon handle the bulk of the technical work. Defense spending is science research from an engineering point of view. If you're talking other fields such as biology and human immune system research well then that's different.

Could some defense spending be cut? Yeah there are some highly worthless projects. But it's more viable of giving a return that scores of entitlement programs for illegal aliens and mass food stamps and welfare for people throughout California and various inner cities who would rather mooch off the middle/upper class paying taxes so they can keep posting on their blog how unfair the country is, doing crack, and walking around in a wife beater all day *****ing about everything.