[ootuoykcuhp21]

if u take a look at when cole jumps over the snake they both exchange shots but cole also took a few shots after at the snake player face when their both on the ground. just happens to miss the joy player, take a look at the snake bunker behind joy, you see it being shot after they joy player shoots. wouldnt that be overshooting as well or playing on?

[gotpancakes]

Originally Posted by Underfunded

Untrue. I think BC had one hit on his mask, and it's unclear as to which joy player that came from, that may have been the mark that hit him out.

The JD player was the one shot in the head illegally, mind you. Illegally meaning BC's shot after his armband was pulled.

I call "watching out for my team member" punching some guy in the face. Should we allow that?

are u kidding me?? wow....ok
go to pbstar.com and watch the vid... the guy most def. bunkers BC...*stops* and lites him in the head and neck like 8-10 times.

and no of course it shouldnt be allowed but if your friend was getting he head knocked it you wouldnt pull the affender back??

[warchilde316]

Amazingly enough, Ref 28 made decent calls given the situation. I'm just confused as to why BC was allowed to pull and hang AFTER it's obvious a ref called him out AND pulled his armband. At that point, there are no legal Dynasty players in the game, and there may or may not have been a JD player, depending on what happened to the last one, and if he was or wasn't in before he lit BC up. Up until this point, everything was going fine.

Even with the penalty for overshooting, which I believe was deserved, that leaves zero living players on either team, making a draw. Under no circumstances should a player who has been pulled be allowed to continue. There is no penalty which allows an eliminated player to return to the game, and the vid CLEARLY shows BC being eliminated.

There were 100 cameras on that event, and instant replay review by the Ultimate would have ruled it correctly, as the lucky video is quite clear about what the on field refs ruled on who was or was not out. It's good enough for the NFL, but it isn't for the NPPL?

This isn't a lecture on what did or didn't happen, or who was or wasn't playing on. BC was called out, he knew, Fraige knew, the Refs knew it, and this video clearly shows it. Giving that game to Dynasty afterwards was a total ref FUBAR. Best case senario is that it's a draw after the (deserved) overshooting penalty. Dynasty should not have had the pull and hang.

But in the end, the ref's on field ruling is what matters, and so Dynasty got a big check at the end of the day while Joy headed back to Europe as very solid and good losers.

For a long time people have said rampant cheating is what is keeping paintball from being bigger then it is. I say that proper refs, proper training, a realistic approach to penalties, and on field instant replay solves the problem. Until the NPPL, PSP, or whatever league figures that out then this is a second class sport.

[Carnagge]

ok so even if BC is out. Malicious overshooting still results in a 1 for 1 being called or a 1 for 3 or w/e. Doesnt that automatically give dynasty pull and the hang? It happened to the NE Hurricanes a couple of years ago against a team. It was on a Traumahead dvd. Just wondering if that rule was still around.

[Nick Brockdorff]

You guys give Pro players too little credit.

When a big game is on the line:

- You don't spin on a guy you know you already hit
- You don't shoot back at a player you already bunkered

Both can easily result in penalties going against you (or simultaneous eliminations), instead of benefitting you... and no seasoned Pro would do that.

Instead you complain like hell, trying to get the refs to call a 141 against your opponents.

So, to me the actions of Alex and BC signify that:

1) Alex did not hit Scandal until he was past him (which is why he spun)
2) BC did not hit Scandal until he was on the ground (which is why he was on the ground shooting)

Also, a lot of people seem to be missing, that many spectators who were there, said that BC was hit in the head before he even made it to the snake, by the back Joy player (Sebban - who runs through at the end).

Now, this cannot be seen in any of the pictures or videos, but if it is true, it just puts further emphazis on Joy being robbed.

Last, the official call from Dan Perez was, that he game was decided by a Joy player having his armband pulled, acknowledging he was eliminated, and THEN shooting a Dynasty player.

If you watch the videos again, you will see that NONE of the last 2 Joy players had their armbands pulled at any time, until it was all over and BC ran for the flag.... none of them ever shot their gun after having their armband pulled.

The only one clearly firing his gun after having his armband pulled and acknowledging his elimination (he was standing around debating it), is BC..... so logically, if the game was decided on a player shooting an opponent after having been eliminated, every picture and video supports that Joy should have received the win.

So, both going by the official call - and going by what the refs SHOULD have called - Joy should have won the tournament, and XSV should have won the series title!

Nick

[GameoveR_707]

what i thought was pretty weak was, when the refs were making their final decision, they made ALL the JOY players go back to their deadbox, but allowed alex and BC to stay and argue...

[Papa J]

Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff

You guys give Pro players too little credit.

When a big game is on the line:

- You don't spin on a guy you know you already hit
- You don't shoot back at a player you already bunkered

Both can easily result in penalties going against you (or simultaneous eliminations), instead of benefitting you... and no seasoned Pro would do that.

Instead you complain like hell, trying to get the refs to call a 141 against your opponents.

So, to me the actions of Alex and BC signify that:

1) Alex did not hit Scandal until he was past him (which is why he spun)
2) BC did not hit Scandal until he was on the ground (which is why he was on the ground shooting)

Also, a lot of people seem to be missing, that many spectators who were there, said that BC was hit in the head before he even made it to the snake, by the back Joy player (Sebban - who runs through at the end).

Now, this cannot be seen in any of the pictures or videos, but if it is true, it just puts further emphazis on Joy being robbed.

Last, the official call from Dan Perez was, that he game was decided by a Joy player having his armband pulled, acknowledging he was eliminated, and THEN shooting a Dynasty player.

If you watch the videos again, you will see that NONE of the last 2 Joy players had their armbands pulled at any time, until it was all over and BC ran for the flag.... none of them ever shot their gun after having their armband pulled.

The only one clearly firing his gun after having his armband pulled and acknowledging his elimination (he was standing around debating it), is BC..... so logically, if the game was decided on a player shooting an opponent after having been eliminated, every picture and video supports that Joy should have received the win.

So, both going by the official call - and going by what the refs SHOULD have called - Joy should have won the tournament, and XSV should have won the series title!

Nick

Spoken NIck...

Thats sums it up... of course it is like this... but some ignorant little "dyna fan boys" try to angle it like something else... like he was hit there and he was hit there.... The final judgement from the incompetent/or biased (choose urself ) headref(mr. perez) was that the win go to Dynasty cuz it was a overshooting with maliciuos intent AFTER sebbans band was pulled... we all know now that this was completly BS... And every1 who says otherwise doesnt know what they r talkin about.... And 4 godness sake dont go where some goes: It was a right call cuz its no need to overshoot BC.... come on... he wasnt overshot anytime but he recieved paint several times, first when he was goin over the snake then when he was in the snake and then after he was out and still refusing to leave the field and continue to shot hes gun... In my book i would give him twice as much... And to u all what happen if u play a game real offensive and doesnt care if u get hit at any time... just keep on playin??? Of course in the end of that game u would have numerous hits on u... and then its ok to yell OVERSHOOTING..??!!
No come on... This is nothin against the players in either team (they play 4 a win so i understand BC and Alex when they really try their best 2 win including cheating cuz every1 does that... And thats its good to see, cuz if it was that they already had paid of the ref they didnt have 2 do that... So maybe the players wanted to win the right way... Now how it turned out they have to discuss (alone) with the ref wich call sounded the best... But i think they did the wrong choice cuz we can all see that none of the JD players armband was pulled at any time during the game....
Dont argue with this... cuz its just facts...
But as some1 here said... It wont pay of in the future cuz it was fun to see "the use 2 be so popular team" Dynasty got chanted BS BS BS and have their stuff thrown back at them...
Big up 4 the JD players who where big in their dissapoitment... But still nothin gonna change the verdict....
But something else is changed anyway...

Peace Papa J

[BOOGPRO]

Man Nick your right there complain like hell and Nick your #1 in my book Miss you and your disscusions Nick

[Papa J]

Originally Posted by BOOGPRO

Man Nick your right there complain like hell and Nick your #1 in my book Miss you and your disscusions Nick

How r u???
Hopes thats everything is fine with u and ur family....
But dude... was u at the OC event??!! Where u reffing.....
Miss u alot.... hope to see u in the future,...
Be well and take care...

Peace Papa J

[propluscocker04]

the way i see it is, the dude from JD came up and hit the guy in the snake. then the dynasty guy in the snake got pulled. then BC came up over the snake and traded shots with that JD player, which would make JD the winners, but the last JD guy left comes up and totally lights up BC after the ref pulls him. so the way i see it, is that dynasty won, cuz of overshooting on JD's behalf. (i am not a dynasty fan either, i am a joy fan)

[Nick Brockdorff]

Man Nick your right there complain like hell and Nick your #1 in my book Miss you and your disscusions Nick

Hey Boogie

Miss u too buddy - the current head refs in the MS are to bloodless - it's boring

BRING THE BOOGIE MAN BACK

Nick

[Nick Brockdorff]

but the last JD guy left comes up and totally lights up BC after the ref pulls him. so the way i see it, is that dynasty won, cuz of overshooting on JD's behalf. (i am not a dynasty fan either, i am a joy fan)

The thing is, an eliminated player is supposed to clearly signal he is out and immediately proceed to the deadbox.... and the reason for that is EXACTLY to avoid him getting shot up some more.

BC was standing around arguing, in behind a bunker, where the last Joy player could not see him, so he had no chance of knowing if BC was out or not - and the refs didn't do anything to signal it either.

So, no sane ref could fault the last Joy player for shooting BC when he rounded the bunker he was behind - and no sane ref would make an overshooting call on that action.

Every good ref out there would smile at BC and go "you had that coming dude - now PLEASE proceed to the deadbox without further delay"

What DID happen was, that the Joy player shot BC 3-4 times - BC then shot back (after being eliminated) - and the Joy player then shot him again.

Had BC not brought up his gun and shot the last Joy player, he would only have had 4-5 hits on him total - no way that was overshooting...... except maybe in the land of the gay - so all the gay people out there - stand up and be counted

Nick

[geekwarrior81]

Originally Posted by ootuoykcuhp21

if u take a look at when cole jumps over the snake they both exchange shots but cole also took a few shots after at the snake player face when their both on the ground. just happens to miss the joy player, take a look at the snake bunker behind joy, you see it being shot after they joy player shoots. wouldnt that be overshooting as well or playing on?

yeas, i noticed that...and why would BC keep shooting...could it be he missed when he came over the snake? But yeah, if you watch the slow mo, you see BC take some late shots straight to Joy's head.

[Underfunded]

Originally Posted by gotpancakes

are u kidding me?? wow....ok
go to pbstar.com and watch the vid... the guy most def. bunkers BC...*stops* and lites him in the head and neck like 8-10 times.

and no of course it shouldnt be allowed but if your friend was getting he head knocked it you wouldnt pull the affender back??

He had to stop to avoid his player who was correctly leaving the field. BC does the same thing to the joy snake player. All pro teams shoot more than once when the bunker someone. Especially if they themselves are getting shot at.

[nicustom]

One thing i notice is that sebbas dont shoot more than 10 times to BC, you can see in blacklist photos that all the shots in BC loader was before sebbas shoot him, and sebbas shoot BC as reaction of BC shooting at him!!

[ATLballaz(banned)]

Originally Posted by geekwarrior81

we have yet to see pics of hits on the Joy player after bunkering Alex. We do have pics of Alex with about 3 shots on his shoulder, and him tyring to hit Scandal long after he's passes.

You cannot tell from any of the vids if the Joy player is hit running by Alex. If YOU can, than freeze the frame and show us.

You can sleep easier now,JOY played on,simple as that.

Look the refs overshooting call is bs,But the playing on call of JD is correct,BC was clean when the JD player plays on,so you all know playing on is a 1 for 1 Dynasty wins.I think the 6 month bann is wrong.I dont really care for dynasty but I think you are hateing on them due to their rain of winning and should just say good job.












[/quote]

[raehl]

Originally Posted by ATLballaz(banned)

You can sleep easier now,JOY played on,simple as that.

Look the refs overshooting call is bs,But the playing on call of JD is correct,BC was clean when the JD player plays on,so you all know playing on is a 1 for 1 Dynasty wins.

No, they don't. BC got his band pulled, he's dead. No way around that. Last Joy player getting pulled on a penalty means all players are dead (tie) and the game goes to a one-on-one.

- Chris

[raehl]

Originally Posted by Carnagge

ok so even if BC is out. Malicious overshooting still results in a 1 for 1 being called or a 1 for 3 or w/e. Doesnt that automatically give dynasty pull and the hang?

No, it does not.

Pull and Hang only go over if the last live player is playing on when he is eliminated. (See rule 20.02)

[geekwarrior81]

Originally Posted by ATLballaz(banned)

You can sleep easier now,JOY played on,simple as that.

Look the refs overshooting call is bs,But the playing on call of JD is correct,BC was clean when the JD player plays on,so you all know playing on is a 1 for 1 Dynasty wins.I think the 6 month bann is wrong.I dont really care for dynasty but I think you are hateing on them due to their rain of winning and should just say good job.

[/quote]

logic would say that hit came from Alex, long after he himself was out. Look at the pics and how far Alex turns to get him, they match up with were the Joy player is when he gets hit. even if, that would have been a 1 for 1 and should have gone to a 1 on 1.

[AZpaintballa4life]

I don't know about that call it looked like he was shot before he even made it into the snake therefore both dynasty players would still be alive and joy's last player would be pulled for a playing on penalty.

[Fargbollen]

Finally, here's the response from NPPL:

http://www.rushhour.se/npplstatement.pdf


In short:

Joy did not overshoot as players (BC) that play on cannot be ruled to be overshot.
Joy did not play on.
The 6-game suspension is lifted.

Dynasty player Brian cole has received a warning for playing on/shooting without an armband.
Dynasty player Alex Fraige has received a warning for physical contact.

It's very likely Dynasty will still keep the win. Magued of Joy has stated that they will not push further for a change of this, as he says:
"we accept that bad calls can be made. And it should now be clear for anybody that if the official had made the right calls on the field the win would have gone to Joy Stockholm and the series title to Sacramento XSV. But winning at any cost have never been our style."