[aelsaheb]

Hi all, I am in the process of starting my own field in Dubai. I am interested in your thoughts with regards to paint. From what I have been reading, there are a number of fields that only allow the use of their own paint while others are more liberal.

Just to give you a background about the paintball scene here - There are currently 5 operating fields in the country. They all sell a box of reasonable quality paint for ... (drum roll) ... USD 300/- No this is not a typo! This is the going rate. In addition to the above, players do not have the option of buying paint from stores since there are none to begin with!!!

So here's the dilemma! In the interest of making this sport grow in this part of the world, I'm seriously thinking of allowing players to source their own paint from abroad (which would still be cheaper than buying it from the other fields here) or should i restrict my field to field only paint - but much cheaper prices? Or should I just be another greedy SOB and stick to the current prices?

Your thoughts would be highly appreciated.

[Kanadian-Kaos]

Just be a greedy SOB and charge close to what everyone else does... or maybe a little less if you are not so greedy. I don't know how much it costs to ship a flat of paint to Dubai, but I am sure you could sell it for $200-$250 a case and still make a profit.

Fields make their money off paint and rentals... not field fees.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by aelsaheb

Hi all, I am in the process of starting my own field in Dubai. I am interested in your thoughts with regards to paint. From what I have been reading, there are a number of fields that only allow the use of their own paint while others are more liberal.

Just to give you a background about the paintball scene here - There are currently 5 operating fields in the country. They all sell a box of reasonable quality paint for ... (drum roll) ... USD 300/- No this is not a typo! This is the going rate. In addition to the above, players do not have the option of buying paint from stores since there are none to begin with!!!

So here's the dilemma! In the interest of making this sport grow in this part of the world, I'm seriously thinking of allowing players to source their own paint from abroad (which would still be cheaper than buying it from the other fields here) or should i restrict my field to field only paint - but much cheaper prices? Or should I just be another greedy SOB and stick to the current prices?

Your thoughts would be highly appreciated.

Why are all the other fields selling for those prices? Do they need those prices to cover overhead? I have no idea what overhead in Dubai would be like.

Just a word of caution, once a downward spiral of undercutting the competition has been started, it's usually very difficult to reverse the trend. Undercutting competitors in North America started innocently enough, but the result is field owners in trouble because they can't afford to stay open, and many fields that have less than desireable levels of infrstructure and service. I don't know how close your competitors will be, but don't make the assumption that they will let you conduct your business without some kind of retaliation.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Kanadian-Kaos

Fields make their money off paint and rentals... not field fees.

Fields make thier money on a combination of all forms of income, field fees included. As a matter of fact, I would venture a bet that many fields today are making just as much money or more money on field fees as they are on paint sales.

[generalee72]

I agree with the keep your prices in line with the competition, and then focus your efforts on being a better field.

There have been many, many discussions here about this subject matter and what seems to be the overwhelming opinion among actual field owners is that you should focus your efforts on being better instead of cheaper.

[aelsaheb]

Let me elaborate a bit more ....

Paintball as a SPORT is relatively new here. We formed a league last year. There are currently 9 registered teams. Recreational paintball has been here for a much longer time.

1. As for competition, there is only 1 field in the City. It consists of 1 rec-field (dirt ground). Its more than 10 years old. The owner simply lost interest - hasn't changed a thing since he opened his doors. Their packages start of at USD 30 for a mask, coveralls, tippmman 98, gravity feed and Co2 (No HPA). Every additional 100 paintballs will cost USD 18. A case of 2000 rounds will set you back USD 325/-

There is only one other field in the country that provides HPA. Its a bit far off and charges about the same as the above. However, they do have a couple of speedball fields running on grass (Not turf)

2. Overheads are quite low. Manpower is relatively cheap. NO TAXESSSSSS.

So in short, there is no reason to charge these higher prices. Infact, these prices are holding back the sport. I believe that providing proper facilities such as turf fields, proper netting, proper bunkers and charging paint at half the above prices will do my business and the sport in general alot of good.

If this results in the competition reducing their prices as well then so be it! I'm sure the level of service and quality of my field will blow them out of the water anyways.

[618-Stunna]

Wow 300$? Thats insane
If you were to order a ton of paint from over here and have it shipped there and sell it for that price you would make a ton of money.

How much are guns going for over there?

[aelsaheb]

Originally Posted by 618-Stunna

Wow 300$? Thats insane
If you were to order a ton of paint from over here and have it shipped there and sell it for that price you would make a ton of money.

How much are guns going for over there?

An invet mini will set you back USD 450!!

A BT Banshee will set you back USD 600!!

I agree it is insane. This is what happens when CPAs run the fields. I am a speedballer. I have passion for this sport and I want it to grow. I want to attract International Tourneys to this part of the world!

[618-Stunna]

I think that is totally possible(the international tournys)
I know there was a Asian world cup last year so why couldnt there be one there.

The only thing is i know there wont be people here paying 300 a case though if they went over there.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by aelsaheb

Let me elaborate a bit more ....

Paintball as a SPORT is relatively new here. We formed a league last year. There are currently 9 registered teams. Recreational paintball has been here for a much longer time.

1. As for competition, there is only 1 field in the City. It consists of 1 rec-field (dirt ground). Its more than 10 years old. The owner simply lost interest - hasn't changed a thing since he opened his doors. Their packages start of at USD 30 for a mask, coveralls, tippmman 98, gravity feed and Co2 (No HPA). Every additional 100 paintballs will cost USD 18. A case of 2000 rounds will set you back USD 325/-

There is only one other field in the country that provides HPA. Its a bit far off and charges about the same as the above. However, they do have a couple of speedball fields running on grass (Not turf)

2. Overheads are quite low. Manpower is relatively cheap. NO TAXESSSSSS.

So in short, there is no reason to charge these higher prices. Infact, these prices are holding back the sport. I believe that providing proper facilities such as turf fields, proper netting, proper bunkers and charging paint at half the above prices will do my business and the sport in general alot of good.

If this results in the competition reducing their prices as well then so be it! I'm sure the level of service and quality of my field will blow them out of the water anyways.

So what kind of field are you planning to open? Speedball or rec ball?

What does the average person in Dubai earn? $18/100 seems high, but if everyone is hearning high incomes, then it may not be out of line.

If opening a recball only field, I would suggest basing your paintball prices on how many you think your customers should shoot to have a good time. That will depend on their incomes, as to how many they can afford. I have more written on that concept here: http://reiner-schafer.blogspot.com/2...1_archive.html The 3 part article on Economics of a Recreatioanl Paintball Facility is most relevant.

If opening up a speedball facility then you will most likely want to lower the price of paintballs to grow thw sport. Once again, how much you charge will determine how many your customers shoot. If you don't care how many they shoot, make your money on field fees and give away the paint at low markup. That's what most fields in North America do.

If you are planning to open a field with both rec and speedball, I have no advice for you. You'll have to figure out how to do that on your own.

[aelsaheb]

Thanx for the input Reiner. I am planning to operate both fields. I'll get creative in working it out!

Regarding International Tourneys, we had a tourney three weeks ago in IRAN. Check out palmseries.com - LA Ironmen showed up (and won) and so did alot of paintball big-wigs. So it allready is starting ... slowly but surely!

[generalee72]

If you have enough space to do it I would try and keep your rec-ballers and tourney guys as far apart from each other as possible.

I don't know if you would see the same issues we see out here, but it seems to be a very good idea.

[aelsaheb]

Originally Posted by generalee72

If you have enough space to do it I would try and keep your rec-ballers and tourney guys as far apart from each other as possible.

I don't know if you would see the same issues we see out here, but it seems to be a very good idea.

Allready incorporated that in the design. Dont want the rec-ballers and speedballers mingling just yet. But I have designed it in such a way so that the rec-ballers will be able to see the next step of playin paintball.

Hope it works.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by aelsaheb

Allready incorporated that in the design. Dont want the rec-ballers and speedballers mingling just yet. But I have designed it in such a way so that the rec-ballers will be able to see the next step of playin paintball.

I wish you wouldn't have said that. Another fork in the road, may be a better way to loook at it.

[generalee72]

Originally Posted by aelsaheb

Allready incorporated that in the design. Dont want the rec-ballers and speedballers mingling just yet. But I have designed it in such a way so that the rec-ballers will be able to see the next step of playin paintball.

Hope it works.

I got to say, I used to have that same feeling about paintball, it was kinda how I came up, and it's how I watched a lot of people come up. But in my quest to learn about ownership/management over the years I have learned that you have to treat them as completely separate paths, with the chance to change from one to the other, but no need, nor any different type of status for one over the other.

[nlpaintballsupply]

love to see those prices here! Speaking as a field and Store owner that is. But at the same time I am Pretty sure that the economy here would not allow for that type of pricing structure. I know that when I first started playing paintball some 16 years ago, paint was $0.25/ball or when I ordered paint in wholesale it was about $200.00 per case. I know sell paint of a decent quality for $50.00 per case at the store and at $0.07 per ball at the rental field. Just a slight difference in prices over the years, but there are alot more players now and they shoot alot more paint than we used too.

[mackinacpb]

I would recommend F.P.O. Its safer for your players and field. Outside paint coming into the field is really risking. Some players abuse paint they buy at stores before actually using it on a paintball field. F.P.O. I think. Thanks

[Six_Shooter]

A video I was shown recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKqpYVvhuxs

I didn't realize just how bad some of this cheaper paint can be.

[PaintballRepUSA]

I finnished a gig over there consulting and found it to be a very lucrative country. People in the US do not comprehend the cash flow differences between the US and Dubai. Remember this is a country making ISLANDS that can be seen from space to put billion dollar homes hom. They are making architectural histroy with self contained living towers that rotate to catch the sun or avoid it as the owner wants.

As for FPO, if you do not have a store, open a pro shop. Set up dealer accounts and import. The Prince is very pro tourism so you should not have an issue once you can show a field is a tourist draw.

As for paint, purchase from Columbia or England via skids and you should be able to get it very inexpensively except for shipping.

Now I would order a container from Columbia, w/ all import fees etc it was 40 skids of paint (88 cases per skid) and $1000 shipping, this was not a climate controlled container as it was a short trip. In your case add more go, tracked and climate controlled.

You should still be able to sell a case for $75 to 80 per case and up to $100 and make a STRONG profit. Become the paint importer and sell cases to the other fields.

Research container prices and if you can lock up a good deal with a manufacturer who doesn't have to screw you with export/import duties you can rule the market.

Look outside the US for these manufacturers unless Dubai has a trade agreement waiving import/export from the US.

I mean you are in a country with the world's largest indoor ski facility (way cool to ski there, loved it ), largest indoor pool facility (well until England built theirs) but your palm trees in doors and the rain system rock.

With all the American contractors in country if you get feasible prices you will not only pull them but, you can theoretically with a quality field and right pricing, take over the industry.

[PaintballRepUSA]

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

A video I was shown recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKqpYVvhuxs

I didn't realize just how bad some of this cheaper paint can be.

I've hit people in the same spot and left the same welt and knocked them out with multiple brands of paintballs. Temple shots are deadly, hence why we started mandating face and temple protection on masks in the 80's.

That said, only difference between Monster Ball and its name brand box is cure time to dry the shell. If you do get a super "fresh" bag the shell willdo exactly what they show it in the video.

The big difference between rec paint and tourney shells is cure time. Longer they air dry the shell the more britle it becomes. Great for tourney, sucks for rec ball and retail chains.

Any paintball if it is too fresh and too little of a cure time will be very difficult to break. People who want paint that is right off the factory line, are insane as the stuff can bounce off a brick wall at 280fps.

You have to let it age. If I recall I was getting paint so fresh from Nelson I had the same issue, they advised me it became better with age from 30-60 days and then from the 60-365 it was prime if it was rolled every 30 days and kept around 80 degrees.

Sad part is when have you ever seen wally world roll cases to make sure the paint stays round?

So in a nutshell don't fear wally world or retail cases any paint can be too fresh. If you get a bulk order of it and its too bouncy, put it in a room for 72 hours at 90 degrees, then let it cool slowly and walla, it will become very tourney like.

And don't bite em, this new stuff tastes like crap even though it is "food grade" its the bottom of the line.

[USFcameron]

Why not open up a place indoors buys a bunch of reballs and charge everyone $175ish to play all day (or more) and you'll pay off those reballs within a few weekends and then everything else is just profits!