I was lucky enough to get my BT4 kit to review. it was a long wait but here it is.
I'm going to be doing this in 3 parts
1. assembly
2. testing
3. Field testing
1. ASSEMBLY
so heres a pic of the box. nothing too fancy. on the back side it shows all the different models and which was the one in the box. the bottom side has a picture of some paintball players and a product warning
these were all the contents inside the box. No instructions were included in my box but to be honest, none are needed. the install is very straight forward. if i had problems i would of just watched one of Rap4's videos on how to put it together but it was not needed.
what was included:
Clamshells in bubble wrap. mine was fully assemebled with the barrel adapter and bolts installed
magwell and 20rnd magazine
magwell push pin
baggie of new bolts and oring
Clamping feedneck
I had to disassemble the clamshells and noticed that there was 5 bolts instead of the normal 4 bolts found on a BT4. the new bolts are metric but the stock bolts were standard so the one bolt for the power tube thta i had to reuse is different then the others. the logo and engravings are a nice touch. the coating has a rough feeling which appears to be nice and thick which should be durabale to scratches and wont leave dirty finger prints. theres bolt holes for both BT4 and A5 trigger frames so theres many options here.
i did notice that there was some imperfections in the casting that the coating could not cover up just like it Flints review from casting and machining. I noticed because i was really looking for them. the mating surfaces of the clamshells were even and sat flush against each other
heres a pic inside the clamshells. the first think i noticed was the rough casting where the bolt and hammer ride on.
I would recommend to polish the internals before putting it together but i wanted to see how it performs first.
there was very minimal overspray on the inside and where there was, it was of not in the important areas. notice the pins used to center the linkage arm and the First strike shaped breech block with the built in Detent. Very cool i thought. as you can also see, one of Flints problems he had in his review of the Phenom kit was that the Magwell to breech spacing was too far apart which left one ball in the magwell and it fell out. you can tell from the pics that the magwell is right up to the breech opening so this wont have the same problem.
outside pic of the breach blockoff which holds the detent. on the top left corner you can see the nut thats pressed into the clamshell half that the magwell hinges on.
Money shot of the First Strike ready opening in the magwell opening of the clamshells. notice the flush mating surfaces of the shells. no bolts
were holding it together in this pic.
the top view of the top rail. something i noiced was that in the middle of the rails, there shaped differently. I'm not sure what thats about.
what i do like is that it has the same picatinny rail size as the BT4 (1913). I was able to fit the top rail cover from a BT Delta which my milsig could not because of the wide top rail which i liked.
*The rail pictured is a Dovetail Rail*
the barrel adapter. it has a male 98 barrel thread to fit into the clamshells and a A5 threaded female. the o-ring gives it a really tight fit in the clamshell. so tight i almost couldnt take it off during disassembly. the adapter sticks out of the clamshells about 1.5".
bag of parts
the magwell adapter. the magwell is made out of what looks like a polymer plastic. The metal magwell of my Milsig is nice but only time will tell how the rap4 magwell will do. even tho the clamshells are First Strike Ready, the magwell is not but I'm not sure how the FS mags are going to work. nice reinforced webbing on the inside with more sexy looking engravings on the side. notice the improved mag release boss to prevent it from sticking like on the Eval. kits. swivel notch on the left and push pin holes on the right.
I didnt spend much time looking at the clamping feedneck as i will never use it. it functions the same as the stock BT4 model but its taller to fit the new shells plus a very nice clamp instead of the bolt and nut.
Last edited by Dan95-5.0 : 08-15-2011 at 02:40 PM.
20rnd RAP4 Mag. I have 9 18rnd Milsig mags and now this one. the plastic feels weaker on the Rap4 unit but the winder i like alot more. it feels softer and winds easier. it has the 6 ball bearings in the collar. it wound and release with no problem. I'm not too sure how to take one of these apart but on the milsigs, theres 2 bolts on mag and it seperates. its also 1" longer in comparison to my milsig mags
This is to be used if i wanted to use strickly hopper fed. it takes place of the magwell and also has the slot for the same style detent. it has a rail on the bottom and its installed the same way as the magwell.
slowely putting it together with the powertube first. i didnt install the oring in the bag.
then everything else
I had a problem installing the other half of the clamshell. I found out it was because of the velocity adjuster. if its too far out, it doesnt fit thru the opening on the other clamshell. a solution for this would be to have a larger opening in the shell to allow more wiggle room for the install like the stock BT4 shell had. even when i wanted to take apart the shells, i had to thread the VA in to remove the top shell. Maybe when i chrono the marker, it would be in far enough to not have to play with it when putting it together or taking it apart. with the opening being too small, the threads of the VA cut into the coating of the shells revealing the bare aluminum.
Problem number 2 i had was installing the magwell. the magwell would fit on the hinge properly but I couldnt get the push pin to fit thru the opening. turns out that when i adjusted the VA, i backed it far out enough that it was hitting the top of the magwell. I can easily fix this with a knife or dremel and cutting the top edge of the magwell. once again, after chronoing, this might not be a problem
when i had everything together i started looking over it and noticed that at the front of the shells, the casting was very thin because theres a blind hole very close to the edge. it looked like a hair line crack at first but after playing with it with my nail, it opened up to what the pics reveal below. it does not interfere or go into the internals.
a picture of my test setup. Tiberius T9 stock, A5 EGRRIP with WAS board, carry handle, and a rap4 handguard, milsig mag. while playing with both rap4 and milsig mags, the rap4 mag feels looser in the magwell. theres a little bit of wiggle. the milsig mag needs a tap with the palm of the hand to get it to lock in but its much more tighter. while trying to pull on the mag with out releasing it first, it held it nice and tight and didnt come out.
Final thoughts and a couple of things that I would like or wanted to see:
Overall i'm pleased with the conversion kit and happy that i ordered it. a few minor obsticles but nothing that would prevent someone from being able to use it.
I'm used to the milsig extended mag release because its easy to get to but because of gap between the trigger and the magwell, i can release and remove the mag at the same time with ease. an ambidextrous mag release is supposed to be release but I dont think i will need it.
the clamshells are setup to run an internal air line which is not available yet but a block off plug would be nice to prevent debris from entering the rear opening by the stock for people who dont plan on using it.
the magwell looks sleek with its lower profile then a milsig but if it was a little bit longer i think it would secure the mag stronger. the push pin and swivel pin might not be strong enough over time but i'll just have to wait and see. converting to a nut an bolt would be easy if you would rather not use the pin.
Something that i wanted to do with this conversion kit was to run mag fed and when i felt the need to, be able to breach load FS rounds with little to no effort to change over. as it sits now, its not possible because of the location of the Detent in the breach bloo remove it. and if i did make my own breach block off plate that can swing out of the way, theres the problem of the now missing detent and having the FS round fall out of the chamber above the mag and cause a chop.
taking apart this thing compared to my milsig is alot easier without the nuts and bolts. besides the push pin holding the mag, its just like taking apart a stock BT4.
2 & 3 - Testing & Field Testing
So i shot 8 mags on the chrono with no problems. no chops or feeding problems. the 20rnd RAP4 mag had no problems either. I was shooting 270 max and the velocity adjuster wasnt sticking out like in my pics. A stronger spring would help as I am using the stock Black spring. I was able to play 2 games with no problems. I did have a problem with my stock wanting to fall off but thats my problem, NOT the RAP4 kits.
The milsig mags are tight. after inserting each mag, i had to hit the bottom to make sure it locked in place or else it would fall out. maybe with more use it will break in.
The magwell feels a little loose for my liking. it has a slight wobble but over time i see this becoming worse because of the platic instead of metal magwell.
I'm going to see what can be done about the magwell, and make a shorty First Strike Mag.
excellent review... now to find out about any available accessories... like the trigger guard... air to stock system... and the trigger guard mag release... any word on where to purchase said items?
Ok... So the RAP4/ Tacamo magazing fed conversion kit came in yesterday... and all in all... I think its an awesome concept. But I have a few problems with the design and flaws.
1. There's a gap at the top of the clamshell (almost as if the two halves were slightly bent)
2. The design was built for the Tippman 98 (and a few other tippmann variants) and modified for the BT-4 combat series. By doing so, there are alot of features on the kit that do not and will not apply to the BT.
-Cyclone feed adapter ports
-1/8th of an inch gap on the front of the marker for 98 sights
-Original feedneck and RIPCLIP will not fit on the marker now (really peeved at that)
3. The Magazine is fairly loose in the magwell
4. And the internals were not polished as originally advertised when RAP4 first announced this kit.
Now dont get me wrong... I'm not completely disappointed. Although I do believe RAP4 should have taken some precautions and more testing before announcing their expected shipment date. First promising for April of 2011, then July... and finally August of 2011... you would think they would have a more promising product. Dont get me started on their customer service... they were not only 4 months late... they didn't even apologize... or offer some sort of free upgrade... whether it be an extra magazine, lanyard, gift card... something to show their sincerity... that would have been nice. I'll post pictures later today... and maybe some video of me test firing it.
It truley a conversion kit. These are not mod kits for the BT-4 (or any other marker), they are new markers that use your internals. The BT-4 conversion kit is actually designed around the 98 as it doesn't accommodate for BT Rip Clip. It is definitely not a BT-4 when its done.
Does anyone else find it odd that these kits are designed to take M98 barrels, yet require BT/A5 style grip frames? Why not just aim the kits at A5/BT/X7 users? OR, if there are going to be special shells that have the grip frame built into them for M98 users, let that one take M98 barrels and the other kits use the normal barrel adapter.
It truley a conversion kit. These are not mod kits for the BT-4 (or any other marker), they are new markers that use your internals. The BT-4 conversion kit is actually designed around the 98 as it doesn't accommodate for BT Rip Clip. It is definitely not a BT-4 when its done.
Have not seen this kits in person but am interested in maybe investing in one for a future project.
Doesn't converting it to a mag fed automatically cancel out the option to use a hopper?
Also, if it does still give you that option, could you use the 98 rip clip seeing that the halves are more closley related to a 98?
Have not seen this kits in person but am interested in maybe investing in one for a future project.
Doesn't converting it to a mag fed automatically cancel out the option to use a hopper?
Also, if it does still give you that option, could you use the 98 rip clip seeing that the halves are more closley related to a 98?
Basically the kit is a Tippmann 98 kit. it comes threaded for the 98, but it can use any BT-4 grip. It has an adapter for the BT-4/A-5, X-7 barrels. since this was designed around the 98 custom body style, the RIP Clip will not fit. BUT, it does come with a BT-4 "style" feed neck that allows you to slide it on like the original picatinny feedneck. I too am upset that the guys at RAP4 did not take into consideration the RIP clip when designing this body.
But here's how it all goes down, I purchased this kit... TOOK FOREVER to freaking get here... I expected APRIL... and got it in late august. The damn thing wouldn't shoot past 250 fps... which at my local field we go up to 299. I had to send the the body back due to there being a large gap in between the shells. I should receive the replacement here on friday. I have a big game on saturday... and well... I'll post videos and photographs... with a possible review on the following week.
on a final note... I really am not impressed with the quality of products from RAP4... To top it off... I received my box mag from them... and one of the bearings in the feed neck was loose inside the hopper... Like i said... reviews will be comming soon.
Sadly this is what I keep hearing from everyone who has tried them. It's too bad too because the idea behind the project was a great one and could have revolutionized woodsball.
I have one statement that I'll stand by with regards to (C)RAP4 .. they have great ideas but terrible implementation and quality control. I learned early on that anything you buy from them, expect to have to mod it yourself to get it to work. That goes for everything from markers to grips, even the simplest things that you'd think they couldn't possibly screw up, they will.
If not for the fact that some ebay suppliers don't mention the brand of the item you're buying, I wouldn't have bought anything from them for years. My last accidental purchase was an A5 Front Grip which was basically just a lump of plastic with a RIS rail on it. No-one could screw that up right? Wrong! It took me an hour and a dremel just to get it to where it could be installed.
That is definitely great advice. And I truly hope RAP4 is starting to take notes. The concepts are great... the possibilities are endless... and I give them props for venturing to the unknown... but I do feel that extensive testing across available platforms should be handled vigorously. Selecting a wide range of beta testers to feather out all possible unknowns would be recommended.
Lets hope my recent RMA process works out the kinks... and I can at least enjoy the product I have purchased. I'll post updates as I come across them.