[nycboyz]

Originally Posted by Stockplayer

?

I mean away from it, keeping their distance.

[Abnmp78]

Originally Posted by Stockplayer

You should all agree with me so we can move on with our lives.

A simple, good job, or wow I wish I could have seen that awesome move, or can you show me how you did it sometime……….would suffice.

Kids, Girls, and now Tankers!

I'm sorry I thought you asked for a discussion on if we should be allowed to take out a tank this way. So you are looking for an attaboy.
Ok ATTABOY! Feel better. So if someone gets bunkered by a nob and the nob ramps them because he saw this really experienced guy do it then you'll understand. I know you only shoot once in a specific location, but others don't see it that way. Experienced player set the example. Experienced players follow the rules. Now if all are higher level players and don't care then so be it but when you have nobs we set the example. Just so u know I'm not expert but I'm older and therefoream looked on by nobs for what to do.
Since there are rules we follow them. Not make our own.

[Stockplayer]

Originally Posted by Abnmp78

I'm sorry I thought you asked for a discussion on if we should be allowed to take out a tank this way. So you are looking for an attaboy.
Ok ATTABOY! Feel better. So if someone gets bunkered by a nob and the nob ramps them because he saw this really experienced guy do it then you'll understand. I know you only shoot once in a specific location, but others don't see it that way. Experienced player set the example. Experienced players follow the rules. Now if all are higher level players and don't care then so be it but when you have nobs we set the example. Just so u know I'm not expert but I'm older and therefoream looked on by nobs for what to do.
Since there are rules we follow them. Not make our own.

well said

[Stockplayer]

I feel really good about our talk guys!

[Wicked Game]

Originally Posted by Stockplayer

You forgot an important part of the rule
"Players may NOT approach any tank, insert a marker barrel into an opening and shoot the occupants.

This is to prevent players from sticking thier barrels into small ports and shooting blindly into the tank.

Hence my rule of never shooting through openings smaller than my head.

and I never stuck my barrel in.

You were close enough to touch the tank. You created an opening and shot through it. Trying to split hairs over whether you "stuck your barrel in" is weak. The rule probably exists to keep the tank occupants from being shots at point blank range. I didn't write the rule, but I find that to be a sensible conclusion.

I find it funny you admittedly didn't listen to the rules well, but you want to make assumptions about why they were written. It was a safety rule, you violated it, you didn't get the tank kill, you got pulled. All facts.

People acting as though you were likely to rip the masks off of the tank occupants is far fetched and silly as well.

[0102030405]

Since you cannot shoot the people in the tank and because of the non-motorized nature of the tank (no 20 foot rules), could you just stand in front or to the side and hold it from moving forward. Are non-motorizes tanks allowed to roll (foot powered) over people if they wish? Well of course not but it seems like because this is a game and not real-life you have to be that prescriptive in your rule-making for the sake of safety. Just like in racing there are right-of-way rules.

To me a simple rule like YOU MAY NOT TOUCH OR THROW anything at a vehicle on the field unless you are authorized to would be a easy black and white rule. Hell, paint it on the side of all vehicles or doors.

I can already hear the common sense argument coming but this seams to be an issue that won't go away so it does make sense to address it in another way then just "you should have know." We have street signs, traffic lights and speed limit signs everywhere to remind you of the rules. No-one expects you to study-up on the speed limits before you go onto a new town.

[Stockplayer]

Originally Posted by 0102030405

Since you cannot shoot the people in the tank and because of the non-motorized nature of the tank (no 20 foot rules), could you just stand in front or to the side and hold it from moving forward. Are non-motorizes tanks allowed to roll (foot powered) over people if they wish? Well of course not but it seems like because this is a game and not real-life you have to be that prescriptive in your rule-making for the sake of safety. Just like in racing there are right-of-way rules.

To me a simple rule like YOU MAY NOT TOUCH OR THROW anything at a vehicle on the field unless you are authorized to would be a easy black and white rule. Hell, paint it on the side of all vehicles or doors.

I can already hear the common sense argument coming but this seams to be an issue that won't go away so it does make sense to address it in another way then just "you should have know." We have street signs, traffic lights and speed limit signs everywhere to remind you of the rules. No-one expects you to study-up on the speed limits before you go onto a new town.

You are right I should have jumped in, and taken the tank.

[oFant0mo]

Stockplayer excellent job taking the tank. You did a cool thing, had the rules been different that would be an epic manuever. There are some things to consider..

They 20 ft barrier is as much for the Occupants Protection as your own. its not JUST about the tank hitting you but its about getting bunkered by the tank. God forbid you shoot the driver.. he screws up and runs someone over. Yeah I still think its broken tho.. the tanks do get to mow people over and sure everyone and anyone who has served knows.. this isnt real life this is paintball.

Also.. tank doors have locks.

Regardless of whether of not you agree with the rule, personally I am with you. But in a sport where people mimic realism.. not actually expect this to BE real... some exceptions have to be made. I dont get to butt you in the face with my rifle stock... I cant call in artilerry on your position... I cant slit your throat... and I cant take you out at 100 yrds with a rifle..

So be it as it may.. the rules exist to maintain fun. Yeah it seems broken but thus is the exceptions that have to be made based off the Realism mimiced not reproduced.


Now as far as the head shot with the Nerf Rocket Launcher... I would suggest Putting metal grating on your windows... A nerf Rocket launcher.. should NOT be able to break glass. Thats rediculous. Glass especially vehicle glass has a pretty high surface strength.. so for that rocket to break that glass means that rocket was traveling at too high a speed. I work in an ER... a fall from a bicycle about 3 ft to the ground traveling at 5mph can cause an intercranial bleed and you can find yourself in a Trauma ER prepping for surgery. That same amount of force Wouldnt break glass in a car. You get my point?

I think that if there is a rule set for taking a tank.. it should be thought about.. but I think the tank drivers should also be just as vulnerable as the people they are "mowing" down. It just sucks everyone is out there to sue.

[Cromagnum Tankerman]

Well Ofantomo us tankers are externally vulnerable alot when you have games when there are numerous AT teams at there and your game life expectancy sometimes isnt very long. But a think there is a very big difference for when a person from a tank hits someone from 30-40 yards away then when someone puts their gun thru a hole in a tank or opens a door and shoots us at point blank range. Thats why we have the distance safety rules. When I was at the Fulda Gap game in NC last month the game director told all field players that shooting at a tank is a waste of time and to stay away from them when they come near. There were other means such as AT, land mines, satchel charges, etc., that were used in the game to help take out the tanks. If you play in a game and tanks are involved and there's no way to take it out then just stay away from it. But your always going to have those new players or ones that dont care and want to be Rambo want a bee's that will sneak up and bunk a tank crew. Sounds like a cool thing to do and a way to get back at someone especially if you get shot at a close range. But we all need to be a little smarter and not try to hurt one another. Just because certain things happen in real life war doesnt mean it needs to carry into paintball. Two years ago at Skirmish ION some AT guy shot at my tank within a few feet as I went by a bunker. This blew out my window and the rocket hit me in the back of the head. The welt was so bad I almost went to the hospital. Then to top it all off another player close by when he saw my window out open fire with his marker into my tank. I got hit countless times in the head/arms/neck. So where's the justification for that! Luckily my tank ref saw what was going on a told those players to stop. My tank ref had to help me off the field. I was hurt and almost decided that day to quit paintball. So in a way I am a bunked tanker survivor and hope that doesnt happen again. My new tank a person cannot shoot or enter into my tank/halftrack because of this reasoning. Personally I have shot people at what I would consider to close of a range. I didnt like it and if I saw them later I would apologise. But most of the time those players I shot where what I considered attacking my tank with intent to take it out. I have even had a few idots come at me with my thoughts of actually coming onto my tank. When someone is running right at you a person has to protect themselves. Most times the tank ref will stop them before they get lit up. I have even had players tell me if they see me on the field they plan to throw a smoke granade into my tank. Unfortuneatly there are no standard rules regarding tanks at all fields. Many fields that allow tanks have set rules and many of them are the same at other fields. More then likely Stockplayer will chime back in here on this topic to get the last word in.

Treaddz

[Boom Master]

Well, among the best times I have ever had playing paintball was capturing a helicopter and capturing the enemy's pontoon boat / landing craft on the lake.

I would LOVE to have a discussion about ways to CAPTURE an enemy tank. Start with disabling it. Hand Grenades have been used for that in the past. Then time to rescue(infantry kill everyone around it), repair it (engineer), tow the tank(with another tank) and if defeated, an mechanism to capture the tank. It could just be the expired time.

It should be 'mission impossible' but big points for capturing a tank if you can. Use it for a period of time and then returning it back to the original team.

What do you guy think. LOTS of safe ways to do it. Give those grunts something to do besides "bunker a tank" Capture it! Nothing LIKE PAYBACK for the grunts to get even with a tank.

[kingofbeer62]

290 fps doesn't kill anyone. But but it really hurts up close. Try a Carhart.

[Cromagnum Tankerman]

Capturing a tank in a game is different then someone coming into the tank to shoot up the crew. Plus I dont think its a very good real health hazzard for the crew if someone puts a smoke granade into a tank. I am sure many of you have noticed when heavy smoke is in an area breathing and choking becomes a problem. If its part of a game to have a mission card to be captured and or change sides and all rules are understood then I dont have a problem. I hardly doubt if someone shoots me in my tank I am going to join them. Now if the tank ref says your tank has been taking out and your crew has been barrel tagged. I have been giving a mission card for you to surrender and to change sides then I'll play along. I am for different ways to play a game. Issues like this is the reason why people get upset at games and fights break out and such happen. I have been playing for over 25 years and I still read the rules for every field I go to. If I would go to a field and the Wild West approach regarding rules applied then I would put my tank back on the trailer and go home. I dont play to get hurt or hurt someone. This isnt the real world. Its a game!

Treaddz

Treaddz

[JESTERTLS]

Originally Posted by Cromagnum Tankerman

I dont play to get hurt or hurt someone. This isnt the real world. Its a game!

Exactly!

People get a little too into the game sometimes. But none of us wants to hurt anyone nor get hurt. We take on alot of responsibility when we become tankers. I'm sure not all of the tank crews out there grasp that right off the bat.

And like Treaddz said, if its in the game to be captured, I think its cool for a game with one tank in play. And in all reality, it would keep the tank in the game alot more.

[Cromagnum Tankerman]

I dont know what a Carhart is. Please someone explain! But if its referring to welts and pain from paintball hits believe I have had my share over the years. I have played in all sorts of games, 3-5-10 tournaments, rec, woodsball, and scenerio games in my 25 plus years. I have seen people shot in the face and other critical areas. I have seen people taken to the hospital. But 290 per second if shot at close range in the temple or in the eye might kill you or severely injure someone.. I have seen numerous times when players dance around on a field hoping to get shot. Acting like fools. I just saw a few at the Fulda Game. I pay no mind to them unless they come at me. I just cannot find a reason why someone would pay good money to be in a game and act like that. These are probably the idiots whom also like to shoot players at point blank range then bragg to their friends on the cool kill they had. Players ought to stick to the point of the game like pull the flag, complete a mission to get points for their team, take an objective ordered by the command, etc. Thats just not cool enough for some of you. You feel you have to hurt someone to be big and think your some great paintball player. But in reality what can be really said or done to stop it. Not much! Your always going to have someone whom breaks the rules. Its our nature as a species.

Treaddz

[JESTERTLS]

The bigger the game, the more idiots your gonna get, for sure.

And Carhartt makes some really good, thick, durable out door work clothing and boots.

[oFant0mo]

Are there different rules regarding like something designated an APC? And if a tank/APC is killed.. are the occupants dead?

[CNCRouterman]

Not all fields allow APCs. Apparently Command Decisions is a field that does, at least at the Fulda Gap scenario. Here is a link to their Tank Rules:
http://www.fuldagap.com/RulesTanks.shtml

I haven't been to that field yet. I believe that if a field allows APCs then if the APC is "taken out" then all players inside are considered eliminated. Seems like the most logical conclusion. Reading the Fulda Gap rules leads me to believe that the only time you can eliminate anyone INSIDE a tank by using a PB marker is in the case of catching the troops during embarking or disembarking the APC when the "door" is open. It also appears that the vehicle driver is considered immune from elimination separate from the Tank, and firing on the driver is considered poor sportsmanship.

Not all fields use the same set of rules, but the rule set in that link do a pretty good job of covering the bases. You have to be sure to read the rules for each field you go to, and be advised that when that field has a "big game" you have to check the specific game's rule set. From my reading, it appears that Tanks are generally only on a field during "big games" or "Scenarios", which makes sense.

I doubt a field owner would turn tanks away if there were some to play on all sides, but having just one tank on the field would be disruptive in most cases.

Boom Master's idea of "Capture the Tank" actually sounds rather intriguing, though it would be an easier sell to mercenary tankers than to team owned tanks. I suspect that some teams would be quite reluctant to fire on their own team mates.

It could almost be left unsaid that a Tank owner is not going to permit their Tank to be taken over and actually crewed by anyone other than his or her own picked crew. Simply won't happen with mine when it is done. The only crew allowed in my rig, or for that matter any of the Black Hearts Tanks are those people authorized by the Tank's Owners.

Yes, this is "common sense" and obvious, but as can be attested by some of the extremely naive questions we see on this forum I think it is worth the electrons.
Besides, I have been known to ask naive questions on occasion.

[JESTERTLS]

Originally Posted by CNCRouterman

I doubt a field owner would turn tanks away if there were some to play on all sides, but having just one tank on the field would be disruptive in most cases.

We've got a game down at Boss Paintball in NC in Febuary. It will be as many ODX tanks as we can haul down there against the other side with no tanks what so ever. A recreation of Easy Company running into a German Panzer division. I hope the opposing general recruits some good AT players.

[CNCRouterman]

Originally Posted by JESTERTLS

We've got a game down at Boss Paintball in NC in Febuary. It will be as many ODX tanks as we can haul down there against the other side with no tanks what so ever. A recreation of Easy Company running into a German Panzer division. I hope the opposing general recruits some good AT players.

Ok, what I meant to imply was that taking a tank to a typical Walk On game is not likely to be well received. JESTERTLS points out a valid scenario where one side has armor, and the other does not.

Scenarios usually have some method for balancing the game that a typical walk on game will not have. Take this with a grain or two of salt as I am pretty new to this sport.

[Cromagnum Tankerman]

CNC, I suggest before you take your tank to any field you havent been to before you better contact them first. To see first if they are allowed and then what your involvement or mission is in the game. Then of course go over all the field rules with the game director because all fields are not created equal regarding tank rules.

Treaddz

[Boom Master]

Yeah, field owners and producers hate suprises Friday night and especially Sat morning.

Make sure they know you are coming and if welcomed, don't hesistate to ask if they waive the registration fee for tank owners/crew.

If you are the only tank, OFFER to play both sides. morning and afternoon or Sat and Sunday. Flip a coin to see where you start because the side you start on gets the momentum and confidence of having a tank on their side. Given a choice, I prefer morning and afternoon halves.

Oklahoma D Day made the mistake of letting all the local (Axis) tanks stay as a group and not evening up the armor for both sides. It was like 45 to 6. Ridiculous. We Allied got tic'd off after 3-4 years so we showed up with 150 AT weapons. Half of the AT weapons were deployed to get the tanks OFF the field. The other half was deployed to make sure they didn't get back ON the field. They had to run down ONE road about a quarter of a mile long to get onto the field. A gaunlet of 75 AT players in heavy covers on both sides. We neutered the Axis Armor. That was the LAST game they allowed 'homemade' AT weapons citing insurance requirements that no other field or insurance carrier seems to have then or since. It was ALL BS...! Yes, those tanks did NOT have ANY FUN that year. Spend the weekend in the tank insertion area. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Producer mismanagement of the game.

Be willing to even up the armor or you will hear a LOT of whining and unhappy players and tankers at the game...

I would STILL like to see a way established where one side could CAPTURE a tank and use it on their side for a while.