Meyhem ROF?

crudeIdol · 02-18-2007, 06:42 PM

Okay this might be a dead forum, but wth.

anyone who owns a Mayhem with an upgraded board, i.e. a Morlock, know what the actual marker's ROF limit is? I realize that the original board was capped at 8, but I figure since quite a few people have put in Morlocks or whatever, that the marker can actually shoot much faster.

I'm asking because I'm thinking about putting either an Angel frame or a DM3 frame on mine since the stock board is fried and the stock frame/grip/whatever can in no way support anything other than a morlock. Besides, how awesome would a 'trix framed Mayhem be?

Thanks!

~Crude

Ydna · 02-28-2007, 05:14 PM

If I recall the 8-bps amount was due to the speed the gun took to fire, so it's probably at the top limit.

Closed bolt markers of similar design can't surpass 13-14 bps due to the closed bolt action, so it wouldn't take too much to drop it down to 8 or so.

I'm trying to get around to putting a custom board in mine so we'll see what happens...lol

crudeIdol · 02-28-2007, 08:08 PM

cool, I've actually gotten my solenoid to run off of the old Tippmann A5 E-grip board, and it kind of moved air, but not very well. I'm not sure if it was the dwell, or the fact that I was using my air compressor at the time..

I might give it another shot soon, so I'll let you know what I find too!

Swansen · 04-15-2007, 03:00 PM

if you search this forum you will find all kinds of stuff about modding the Mayhem. A couple years ago i had a pretty long thread with all kinds of info in it, that said, the issue with the ROF seems to come in with the solenoid, which doesn't do much better than 10 or so. So if you really want to get into it, the solenoid has to be replaced and something needs to be retro fitted.

Ydna · 04-16-2007, 04:29 PM

hmmmm...that can be arranged....

AGDRetro · 05-02-2007, 01:39 PM

This was an idea I've been toying around with for some time. I was considering mounting a Shocker SFT frame to the Mayhem. The SFT frame has a ton of space up top for where the Shocker's solenod typically sits, and this would provide you with the space to install a jack to plug the Mayhem's solenoid into. Using the Shocker's stock board gives you all the adjustability you would probably need, an On/Off switch on the spine of the frame and you could use standard 45 grips. Don't know if it'd leave any room to mount a foregrip though...

However if the gun is physically limited to 8-10 bps it would be a bunch of money wasted on something that my RT Mag could outshoot! Still would be a neat headturner...

Ydna · 05-02-2007, 05:45 PM

Ah, I was just about to bump this with a new reply. About the concept of the solenoid capping the marker, I'll have to look into it but I might have evidence to the countrary. As far as I know the solenoid is the same as the one in the Assault-80 (if not the same, then very similar) which doesn't have any issue firing into the high teens and maybe faster.

Most closed bolt markers are limited to a max of 13-14 bps due to the added bolt moving times, which is a far leap from 8-bps in terms of the milliseconds in the firing cycle, but it might not be too far.

I wonder if NiCad has anything to contribute. I know he's done some Mayhem moddin in the past...

sniper1rfa · 05-05-2007, 02:47 PM

Wow, people still post here...

No, close bolt markers are (were) mostly limited to 13 bps because it was easy to cap them there and stay groovy with any loader. Remember, Revvies were still the thing when the last closed bolt marker that i can think of was made (besides e-cockers, they don't friggin' count...). Moving the bolt isn't a problem because any well designed gun can do it concurrently with other actions. E.G. Start hammer solenoid, pause, start bolt solenoid, end hammer solenoid, pause, end bolt solenoid. Or time things via air, or whatever.

The mayhem is limited by something entirely different - the sequence of events. Think about it. It recharges the dump chamber after the firing event, when the gun is at rest (and exactly when you start pulling the trigger again). That's the design flaw that cause me to abandon the snipergat so long ago... ANY gun that shoots fast, if you think about it, recharges the regulated air resevoir while the ball is being dropped. Because those two things are THE longest events in a paintball gun. IIRC, my mayhem fired and dropped a ball in ~30 ms (forcefeed), and then sat there waiting to recharge for another 40 ms. If it could fire in 10ms, then start recharging, it could have been a 20 bps marker, but instead it topped out at like 12.

The top speed, if you really work at it, is like 10 bps. You can get it up to 12, but it's horribly unreliable. 8 was consistent and good for production (you don't need forcefeed or anything).

Ydna · 05-05-2007, 07:05 PM

hmmmm....I are you sure about that. From what I've seen (or thought I've seen), a marker taking more than just 15-20 milliseconds to recharge is ungodly slow. I've tested guns that recharged in well enough time it took to load just one ball before firing again. Is there a reasont he Mayhem would take such a considerably longer amount of time to recharge?

The closed bolt added time I was referring to occurs during the solenoid "closing" times. Specifically I'm talkig about the markershaving to close a couple valves before they can fire again. For instance an Excal takes over 10 milliseconds to open the bolt and another 25 or more to close it, added to the firing times and delays between the ball dropping. Open bolts just have to worry about the bolt closing, a very short time to actually release air, then open again.

But regardless of that being on the ball or not, the Mayhem's layout could have been different for better speed. Although developed at the same time, the "Legion" Shockers had a few tiny differences that allowed them to perform a bit quicker. But the Legion Shocker was capped at 13-14 per second for botl moving times only.

sniper1rfa · 05-05-2007, 07:42 PM

yep, i'm sure. If you wanted to recharge it any faster, you would need a reg the size of the gun on it. Not to mention you had to go through the little itty bitty passages AND that one-way valve doohickey in the powertube. There was a reason the V2's shipped with the big LP hose, like the brick shockers.

Even an old school max flow struggled. I mean, the gun basically had a 3.5 oz co2 tank for a dump chamber, and they were trying to get massive flow with very little pressure (hardly more than 100 psi, at most). The 'gat alleviated the problem somewhat by running at ~400 psi, but even so would have topped out at ~15. I struggled with the problem for a long time before i realized what it was. Had a bit of an epiphany on that one...

How fast can you get an excal going? I thought you could get one humming along pretty good, if you force-fed it. 16? maybe 17? Anything beyond that is starting to realistically outstrip most loaders we have today.

Ydna · 05-05-2007, 07:53 PM

Hah, yeah I tend to use an LP output Max-Flo manifold with mine. I don't have any working screw-ins so I don't even know if the ACI reg I have even works... (but don't tell anybody). The port size much really change, in terms of how much it matters in this case. Makes snese now that I think about it. I don't have access to my cad files of the gun at the moment
I looked up my Ion testing a sec ago, it took 20ish ms to recharge fully, at 130 psi. I tend to make my high speed firing videos higher than that (for recharge concerns, although I don't know if it matters in practicality or not)

I haven't seen a video of an excal going faster than 15. I can get mine going that fast by screwing with the bolt timing, but it only lasts for a single pair, or maybe three shots, then drops off like an mfer. I'd do a lot more testing with it but the damn gun is busted all to hell.

I'm at the moment modding a Shocker Sport bolt piston to utilize QEVs, with a relocated solenoid. I desure to see how fast it can scream...

sniper1rfa · 05-06-2007, 09:24 AM

i should add that the solenoid in the mayhem IS a limiting factor in how fast the gun is (though not the main one), mainly because it's a fairly big restriction trying to switch the... switch... through the little ports drilled to the noid itself. I had better luck using another solenoid and a QEV installed in the switch's cover.

Ydna · 05-06-2007, 09:43 AM

That makes snese. I don't have much experience with the Clippard type solenoids but their catalog does have some good information on them.

Boy, some parts of this gun are really ripe for modding, but others are...yuck.

sniper1rfa · 05-06-2007, 05:58 PM

that's how mine got fiddled with for about three years, finally ending up in a landfill somewhere...

It's a neat gun, but ultimately i think it's basically just a bundle of lessons in pneumatics.

Jwarwin2323 · 07-22-2007, 02:36 PM

Free_gtfo · 07-22-2007, 05:35 PM

dont up a ****ing non bst thread !