[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by SniperForce-Duffek

What makes a better candidate? Different industries, different folks. One might be better suited for a job based on his resume, but everything passed that point is subjective. Gonna higher the better candidate, with a Masters, to work at McDonalds? No, he's over qualified, you higher the worse one. What if's he's black though? Then it goes from over qualified to you having a race preference.

****ty example, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

A black employer is looking for an employee.

A white male, a black male and a gay Latino women with down syndrome all apply for the same position.

Each candidate except the Latino has identical qualifications. I expect the black male to be hired. The choice came down to a simple matter of preference. I would hardly call this racist.

If the employer was a white progressive, I would expect the gay Latino with down syndrome to get hired so he or she could avoid being called racist sexist and ableist.

Hopefully that makes more sense

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Boston College did a study where they made 2000 resumes with the exact same qualification (except different names) and applied for a variety of jobs. 1000 of the resumes were given white sounding names. 1000 were given black sounding names. The 1000 white names were given a call back at roughly twice the rate of the black names.

You don't see a problem with that?

(Also, you do see that you ignored my entire premise to focus on one example.)

I only said I had a problem with your one example.

Was that sent only to white employers?

[Overbear]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Boston College

There is your problem right there, its not real world, its a study done in/by a College.

You can't fight human nature, Its writen into our genetics to look out for only people/types that "look like us" (VERY loose, poorly worded I know). ITs part of the whole survival thing.

You act like you have never had a "racist" (again overused word) thought in your life. You say no, you are a damn lier.

[SniperForce-Duffek]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

A black employer is looking for an employee.

A white male, a black male and a gay Latino women with down syndrome all apply for the same position.

Each candidate except the Latino has identical qualifications. I expect the black male to be hired. The choice came down to a simple matter of preference. I would hardly call this racist.

If the employer was a white progressive, I would expect the gay Latino with down syndrome to get hired so he or she could avoid being called racist sexist and ableist.

Hopefully that makes more sense

It's hard to argue, it really comes down to who is better for a particular job regardless of qualifications. Are you gonna hire a Russian speaker to manage a high class Mexican restaurant, even if he has more experience in business? Probably not. Sometimes preference is taking the lesser qualified because he fits a role better.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by Overbear

There is your problem right there, its not real world, its a study done in/by a College.

You can't fight human nature, Its writen into our genetics to look out for only people/types that "look like us" (VERY loose, poorly worded I know). ITs part of the whole survival thing.

You act like you have never had a "racist" (again overused word) thought in your life. You say no, you are a damn lier.

Almighty science found that ethnic preference develops around 4 or 5.

[Overbear]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

Almighty science found that ethnic preference develops around 4 or 5.

Ive seen the studies, and they arn't really well vetted yet. I will give you however there seems to be pointers to that. I also am not sure how well one can "test" someone under 3yo for somthing like that. Its not like one can just ask what they think.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

I only said I had a problem with your one example.

Was that sent only to white employers?

I believe so, but I may be mixing up a couple studies in my head.

Originally Posted by Overbear

There is your problem right there, its not real world, its a study done in/by a College.

You're joking right. It was an application sent to real employers showing real systemic racism.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by Overbear

Ive seen the studies, and they arn't really well vetted yet. I will give you however there seems to be pointers to that. I also am not sure how well one can "test" someone under 3yo for somthing like that. Its not like one can just ask what they think.

The one I'm referencing was done from infants and up studying the ability to distinguish faces of ethnic groups. They found that the infants could distinguish faces of other races up until that age. After that they had trouble distinguishing faces of others races except their own. I posted a link to it in another thread. The age may be earlier I can't remember.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

I believe so, but I may be mixing up a couple studies in my head.



You're joking right. It was an application sent to real employers showing real systemic racism.

Who they sent it to is pretty important. Even more so is who read the applications. To be an honest study they should have sent it to employers of each major ethnicity.

[madgoat]

overbear is such an amusing person. The only thing keeping him from being a stereotypical ignorant redneck is the fact he's gay so he has no wife to beat.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

Who they sent it to is pretty important. Even more so is who read the applications. To be an honest study they should have sent it to employers of each major ethnicity.

Is it though? I agree that if black people also aren't hiring black people it may not be racism per sa, but it's still an issue. A man shouldn't be much less likely to get a call back about a job just because his name sounds black regardless of who is hiring him.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Is it though? I agree that if black people also aren't hiring black people it may not be racism per sa, but it's still an issue. A man shouldn't be much less likely to get a call back about a job just because his name sounds black regardless of who is hiring him.

It is important. If you find that people prefer their own ethnicities then you have re learned something about human nature. It shows that the only reason racial bias is institutional is because there is a majority ethnic group.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Obama securing 97 percent of the black vote gives us a good idea how things would be if blacks were the majority.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

It is important. If you find that people prefer their own ethnicities then you have re learned something about human nature. It shows that the only reason racial bias is institutional is because there is a majority ethnic group.

I see what you are saying. But even if it is a "part of human nature" does that mean we should just leave it alone? Why not identify the problem and fix it (through structural enforcement)? Isn't that kinda the point of government?

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

Obama securing 97 percent of the black vote gives us a good idea how things would be if blacks were the majority.

He was also the FIRST black president. That's not really a fair example.

Also: Al Gore got 90% of the black vote...

[drgonzo]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

Obama securing 97 percent of the black vote gives us a good idea how things would be if blacks were the majority.

They would be ... Democratic? The Democratic party wins 90% of the black vote normally; Obama winning 97% means only at most 7% of blacks were swayed by Obama himself, not all of which were swayed by his color.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

I see what you are saying. But even if it is a "part of human nature" does that mean we should just leave it alone? Why not identify the problem and fix it (through structural enforcement)? Isn't that kinda the point of government?



He was also the FIRST black president. That's not really a fair example.

We've been trying to fix it for decades. The only way out is eliminating ethnic identity all together. Its not just the way your skin looks or the shape of your eyes.

Here's what will prove me wrong then. Proposition 8 was fairly split down the middle without the black vote. We will see how they vote with Obama's recent support of gay marriage.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

We've been trying to fix it for decades. The only way out is eliminating ethnic identity all together. Its not just the way your skin looks or the shape of your eyes.

Why is the only solution to systemic racism eliminating ethnic identity? I see no reason for that to be true.

Remember we are looking for a solution to the problem, not only a way to make the problem go away. Balancing out systemic racism with social programs is almost as good as getting rid of systemic racism. It certainly is a step forward.

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

Here's what will prove me wrong then. Proposition 8 was fairly split down the middle without the black vote. We will see how they vote with Obama's recent support of gay marriage.

No offense, but what is the point you are trying to prove?

[Iamamartianchurch]

How do you propose government curbs natural inclination to show preference towards those with whom you share the most similarities?

I guess political correctness does a good job of making people feel guilt the moment a thought of preference pops in their heads.

Maybe we just need to do a better job of instilling this control into children starting at younger ages to combat our natural.inclininations?

What do.you think

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

How do you propose government curbs natural inclination to show preference towards those with whom you share the most similarities?

I guess political correctness does a good job of making people feel guilt the moment a thought of preference pops in their heads.

Maybe we just need to do a better job of instilling this control into children starting at younger ages to combat our natural.inclininations?

What do.you think

Affirmative action is a start. It can't be hard to think of other social programs that balance out systemic racism.

But I do agree that they are simply balancing out the affects not fixing the problem. Long term, I would simply look how far we have come in 50 years and think that in 50 years we may get that much farther. Teaching political correctness, diversity, and giving them experiences with all different types of people would shape our culture towards a better society, but we can't expect that to happen overnight. Until then we must be prepared to overcome the systemic racism one way or another.

[barrel roll]

You honestly think affirmative action still has a place? I'm sorry, but in my field (and prior) race is completely ignored and ability is what is paid attention to. Anecdotal, I know.

[R2-D2]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Affirmative action is a start. It can't be hard to think of other social programs that balance out systemic racism.

But I do agree that they are simply balancing out the affects not fixing the problem. Long term, I would simply look how far we have come in 50 years and think that in 50 years we may get that much farther. Teaching political correctness, diversity, and giving them experiences with all different types of people would shape our culture towards a better society, but we can't expect that to happen overnight. Until then we must be prepared to overcome the systemic racism one way or another.

lm-mother-fao

Systemic racism, another fantastic joke. when a small population produces an even smaller amount of qualified candidates (by percentage as well as by sheer number) for advanced positions, you damn well better believe the numbers are going to show that minority makes up A MINORITY in that industry.

you ultra-progressive whites go ahead and side with Jesse Jackson and al sharpton in trying to establish minority privilege. it'll make you feel great inside, I'm sure; you're definitely a humanitarian!