[4rtshark]

better than the wall x1000. But rather than stopping an influx of new illegals (who I do agree SHOULD seek legal methods) we should worry about creating a buy in for illegals here.

I Love, what do you drive?

[XOne]

Originally Posted by 25bps

From what I'm picking up, it's only 5000 troops, for a limited time, basically acting as minute men with guns. They will be shipped off to Iraq right after midterm elections.

Think this has anything to do with his approval ratings hitting 29%?

It has everything to do with that. What the hell is sending in the NG going to do if we dont build a wall? Why dont we deal with building our boarders first, then deal with illegals already here? This is elementry **** yet our president seems to have a negative IQ.

[25bps (Banned)]

Originally Posted by XOne

It has everything to do with that. What the hell is sending in the NG going to do if we dont build a wall? Why dont we deal with building our boarders first, then deal with illegals already here? This is elementry **** yet our president seems to have a negative IQ.

I completely agree. The most ironic part it that Bush is only making things worse for the illegals. Most Americans (including myself) would be willing to compromise with amnesty and a guest worker program if he could just show us that the border was secure and that we won't have this same problem in 2 decades. I can't even figure out who he is trying to appease anymore.

As far as the 6,000 new agents/$2 billion go, my presumption is that he needed a number just high enough so that all the networks would carry his speech. The pentagon has said 10,000 are needed while TJ Bonner (head of the border patrol union) has said 15,000. How many billions have we pissed out into the Iraqi desert? And we can't spare $10 billion for a wall and agents to staff it?

[I love Impulses]

Originally Posted by 4rtshark

better than the wall x1000. But rather than stopping an influx of new illegals (who I do agree SHOULD seek legal methods) we should worry about creating a buy in for illegals here.

I Love, what do you drive?

A wall would work, but it must be staffed as well.

My truck, 2001 Ford F150 Extended Cab V8 Triton (It's a beast)

[MikeM]

Beefing up the border with national guardsmen is a fine gesture, but that's really all it is.

No wall or border patrol will stop illegals from entering this country as long as there are jobs to be had. The solution to illegal immigration is to stricktly enforce laws regarding the hiring of illegals. Part of that must be some form of documentation that can't be easily forged.

[Furious Ge0rge]

They were talking about this last night on MSNBC (It was Scarborough Country, I think) and they said that the proposed number of troops is enough for a guardsmen every 1.5 miles, PLUS, they won't even be carrying guns. Bush is playing another mind game with Americans, and the media.

[XOne]

I understand what Bush is trying to do with the NG. He is using them as a support force to help the boarder patrol. That is why the NG engineers are going to secure our boarders better and give the boarder patrol more technology to handle the problem.

Never the less, this is all to make his approval rating go up before the end of his horrible presidency. Another issue and another enemy to blind us from our real problems.

[Furious Ge0rge]

Originally Posted by XOne

Never the less, this is all to make his approval rating go up before the end of his horrible presidency. Another issue and another enemy to blind us from our real problems.

The only time his approval rating was really good was after 9/11, and whenever he wasn't the top story in the news.

[XOne]

Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge

The only time his approval rating was really good was after 9/11, and whenever he wasn't the top story in the news.

Well, at that time, it was really easy to create an enemy. We are running out of people that we can make our enemies. With more details coming out about the NSA's dealings, it seems that they think the next enemy is ourselves. Ill wait to see what happends though.

On another note:

A Green Beret (US Army special forces) named Jeff Attacot was just on Fox News talking about all the terrorist sleeper cells in Canada right now and how our northern boarder is our biggist weak spot. He talked about the Toronto 19 cell which planned to fly planes into a nuclear reactor in Boston, possibly killing about 250,000 people.

If we are going to build up our southern boarder, we need to build up our northern boarder. We cannot let a surface to air missle, chemical weapon, or a dirty bomb come through our northern boarder.

[4rtshark]

Originally Posted by I love Impulses

A wall would work, but it must be staffed as well.

thus defeating itself. if a wall needs guards as you say, a cheaper/ less "look at me I'm the next Berlin" approach with a fence is better.

Never the less, this is all to make his approval rating go up before the end of his horrible presidency. Another issue and another enemy to blind us from our real problems.

So attending to a NOT-iraq issue is diversion and subversion?


**** california.

[XOne]

Originally Posted by 4rtshark

thus defeating itself. if a wall needs guards as you say, a cheaper/ less "look at me I'm the next Berlin" approach with a fence is better.

So attending to a NOT-iraq issue is diversion and subversion?


**** california.

Iraq is not our only problem you retard. How about our healthcare system? We pay more per person a year on healthcare yet we have one of the worst quality systems in the world. How about social security? That wont exist in a few years, so our elderly wont have **** to retire with. How about Welfare? There are so many people leeching off the system that dont even need it? Our Education system? We are 37th in the world yet we spend the most on education.

On the issue of Education: Most people in this world know how to speak several languages. In Vietnam, they are taught 3 different languages. You guys are *****ing about learning spannish? I am Mexican and I know English, Spannish, and German. Quit being lazy. I am going to start learning an Arabic language soon.

[Furious Ge0rge]

Originally Posted by XOne

Well, at that time, it was really easy to create an enemy. We are running out of people that we can make our enemies. With more details coming out about the NSA's dealings, it seems that they think the next enemy is ourselves. Ill wait to see what happends though.

Now the NSA is spying on Journalists to find the source of all the leaks. Big Brother and Orwellian Nightmare, much? I guess the Bush Administration isn't big on the Constitution...

Originally Posted by XOne

On another note:

A Green Beret (US Army special forces) named Jeff Attacot was just on Fox News talking about all the terrorist sleeper cells in Canada right now and how our northern boarder is our biggist weak spot. He talked about the Toronto 19 cell which planned to fly planes into a nuclear reactor in Boston, possibly killing about 250,000 people.

If we are going to build up our southern boarder, we need to build up our northern boarder. We cannot let a surface to air missle, chemical weapon, or a dirty bomb come through our northern boarder.

I've known about **** like this since 9/11 happened. The fallacy that the Bush Administration claims is our 'National Security', is barely as effecient as it was 10 years ago.

[MikeM]

Originally Posted by XOne

Iraq is not our only problem you retard. How about our healthcare system? We pay more per person a year on healthcare yet we have one of the worst quality systems in the world. How about social security? That wont exist in a few years, so our elderly wont have **** to retire with. How about Welfare? There are so many people leeching off the system that dont even need it? Our Education system? We are 37th in the world yet we spend the most on education.

On the issue of Education: Most people in this world know how to speak several languages. In Vietnam, they are taught 3 different languages. You guys are *****ing about learning spannish? I am Mexican and I know English, Spannish, and German. Quit being lazy. I am going to start learning an Arabic language soon.

Our healthcare system is very expensive, but is far from "one of the worst quality systems in the world". What's your criteria for comparing? Accessability? Quality of care? Choices avaliable? What are your shining examples? There must be many and I'd hope they're better than Canada or the UK (two national systems that are far worse than our system).

As far as education goes, one of the biggest drains in terms of expense and quality in this area is bilingual education. Eliminating that disaster would improve our schools greatly and reduce costs.

[Furious Ge0rge]

When he means healthcare, I'm pretty sure he's suggesting those who need it the most, like children, elderly, etc.

[XOne]

Originally Posted by MikeM

Our healthcare system is very expensive, but is far from "one of the worst quality systems in the world". What's your criteria for comparing? Accessability? Quality of care? Choices avaliable? What are your shining examples? There must be many and I'd hope they're better than Canada or the UK (two national systems that are far worse than our system).

As far as education goes, one of the biggest drains in terms of expense and quality in this area is bilingual education. Eliminating that disaster would improve our schools greatly and reduce costs.

Lol, I have to go to school right now but what you said about Canada and the UK is wrong. France's current system is alot better. I will get you all the numbers you want later.

As far as bilingual education: Like I said, almost every country in the world teaches thier students several languages, yet we are ranked 37th. In Japan, they teach their students Chinese also, for example.

[BCP Klaus]

Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge

They were talking about this last night on MSNBC (It was Scarborough Country, I think) and they said that the proposed number of troops is enough for a guardsmen every 1.5 miles, PLUS, they won't even be carrying guns. Bush is playing another mind game with Americans, and the media.

actually...in regards to the NG, they'd be there purely as logistical support, ie: building service roads, repairing border fences and such, not necessarily "standing watch", and the theory is that this will free up Border Patrol staff and allow them to do just that, Patrol the Border!

[MikeM]

Originally Posted by XOne

Lol, I have to go to school right now but what you said about Canada and the UK is wrong. France's current system is alot better. I will get you all the numbers you want later.

Numbers can be deceiving. Tell me how many people you know that have experienced different health care systems. I know many people who have relocated to the UK for extended periods. NONE of them would voluntarily submit themselves to the UK healthcare system. There are very long waits to see specialists, schedule necessary procedures, etc. In order to come close to the same quality care they are accustomed to in the US, these folks need to go outside the system (private healthcare). My sister, brother-in-law, and their kids have been in Canada for a number of years (on a work visa). They have access to Canadian health care. Guess what they do nearly every time they come home (to the US) to visit? They schedule medical & dental visits. They will often plan trips to correspond to their medical needs. They choose to drive over 8 hours to avoid subjecting themselves to the poor care they have experienced when they were forced to use the Canadian system (that you believe is so wonderful) due to emergency. All of my brother-in-law's American co-workers do the same. Fortunately for us, Hillary's national healthcare plan was stopped before it brought down our system.

Originally Posted by XOne

As far as bilingual education: Like I said, almost every country in the world teaches thier students several languages, yet we are ranked 37th. In Japan, they teach their students Chinese also, for example.

Ranked 37th based on what? 37th in terms of quality of education? 37th in terms of classroom hours per year? 37th in terms of student achievement? What's the basis for this 'ranking'? Standardized tests of some sort? This seems like a ranking that is probably based on a very subjective basis. The fact that other countries choose to teach multiple languages does not mean that we should, nor does number of languages taught necessarily correspond to quality of education. Btw, I agree that our education system is weak. But it is not because we don't teach enough languages.

As far a language in general goes, I'd love to see English declared our official language and see an end to manditory bi-ligngual education, and an end to our being overly accommodating to those who choose to live here yet choose to not speak our language!

[zack]

This is no surprise. Fascism is ushered in by securing a national identity (flags, Christ and McDonalds), by securing borders against an external enemy (the terrorist, the immigrant...or is there any difference?) and by the transformation of the public sphere into a violent space where democratic dissent is impossible. Welcome to the new fascism, my Good American friends.

[Evilwombat]

If we make a wall, we will merely be accused of copying the chinese! Who here REALLY wants to be 2,000 years behind the chinese?

Frankly, A wall, unfortunately WOULD be the best solution. You could waltz across while breakdancing. That combined with our patheticly lenient laws makes illegal immigration basically legal.

[bern]

Ridiculous

[25bps (Banned)]

Originally Posted by zack

This is no surprise. Fascism is ushered in by securing a national identity (flags, Christ and McDonalds), by securing borders against an external enemy (the terrorist, the immigrant...or is there any difference?) and by the transformation of the public sphere into a violent space where democratic dissent is impossible. Welcome to the new fascism, my Good American friends.

I can think of a few better ways to combat fascism than welcoming in terrorists and economic burdens.

Besides, Americans hate each other. The notion of national "unity" is just a fantasy which was forgotten as quickly as 9-11.