[CA_Tectonics]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Makes more sense. You're Correct. It issss the interenet. Lol. Idt a well tuned g4 with a stock bolt comes even close to being efficient lol does it?

One other question. I've been told that the techt bolt still has bolt stick issues after 3 cases.
Has this issue been addressed on this newer bolt? Or is it just a design flaw altogether with dump valves?

Sure, a well tuned G4 can be fairly efficient - especially if one tinkers and underbore, etc.. It isn't going to reach G6R numbers but it is decent.

I don't think the bolt stick "issue" is due to the design of the dump valve at all. I'm willing to bet that a VAST majority of "bolt stick" comes from improper lube job, incorrect type of lube, or o-ring fitment. You could probably add in there board settings as well.

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics

Sure, a well tuned G4 can be fairly efficient - especially if one tinkers and underbore, etc.. It isn't going to reach G6R numbers but it is decent. I don't think the bolt stick "issue" is due to the design of the dump valve at all. I'm willing to bet that a VAST majority of "bolt stick" comes from improper lube job, incorrect type of lube, or o-ring fitment. You could probably add in there board settings as well.

I don't have years of experience behind me in terms of the g4 or any paintball marker. I just have dealt with a fairly intelligent guy that's been using a g4 for the past couple years. And said he tried all the different lubes. And all the tricks to keep it from sticking after a couple cases. And he can't manage to keep it from happening. not to say it's an issue with all of them I just heard it happened to quite a few people. (:

I personally havnt had it happen to me other than times of excessive dry firing. Lol (Yes we all do stupid **** like dry firing when we get something new and shiny and don't know better lol)

[CA_Tectonics]

Originally Posted by Winning?

I don't have years of experience behind me in terms of the g4 or any paintball marker. I just have dealt with a fairly intelligent guy that's been using a g4 for the past couple years. And said he tried all the different lubes. And all the tricks to keep it from sticking after a couple cases. And he can't manage to keep it from happening. not to say it's an issue with all of them I just heard it happened to quite a few people. (:

I personally havnt had it happen to me other than times of excessive dry firing. Lol (Yes we all do stupid **** like dry firing when we get something new and shiny and don't know better lol)

Wait.........He isn't relubing the bolt tail after every case or so? If not, I'm not surprised he is having issues. A spool valve marker is not like a poppet. You can't just lube it once and expect to go the whole season without lubing. The marker doesn't need a complete breakdown and service after each case but the bolt does (both stock and TechT).

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics

Wait.........He isn't relubing the bolt tail after every case or so? If not, I'm not surprised he is having issues. A spool valve marker is not like a poppet. You can't just lube it once and expect to go the whole season without lubing. The marker doesn't need a complete breakdown and service after each case but the bolt does (both stock and TechT).

Ha! I honestly couldn't speak for him on that. (:
But I did not know you had to re lube a spool engine after ever case. Good to knowww.

[xmc1146]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Ha! I honestly couldn't speak for him on that. (:
But I did not know you had to re lube a spool engine after ever case. Good to knowww.

you should do that especially when you are in a tourney.

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by xmc1146

you should do that especially when you are in a tourney.

I personally only play rec ball. and am somewhat of a gun whore.
But I mostly just operate my park and hear stories of other people's guns. I'll suggest it to anyone who has "bolt stick issues".

I personally havnt had any issues with any of my other spools needing lube after a case. But I hardly ever shoot more than a case and clean my guns after every use.
So I guess that would explain why I havnt had any issues. XD

[rkenders]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Ha! I honestly couldn't speak for him on that. (:
But I did not know you had to re lube a spool engine after ever case. Good to knowww.

I have a G3, G4, G5 and Threshy and none of them need to be lubed after every case. The G5 is the only one that is all stock. The rest have Techt bolts. I usually play 2 cases in a day of speedball. My guns are fine at the end of the day having never been relubed. I still take them apart and relube after a day of use, but I could go longer. The bolt stick issue is not lube related. I've used Hater, Monkey poo, oils, DOW 33, etc in my DP's and they all shoot fine with just about any lube. The bolt stick issue is due to o-ring fitment issues. I don't know if DP buys poorly sized o-rings and that's why so many people had bolt stick issues. My G4, new out of the box, wouldn't shoot. I had to replace all the o-rings and have never had a problem since. I suggest to anyone who has bolt stick problems to replace all the factory o-rings. I've "fixed" several sticking DP guns that way.

I also have a Clone VX, Drone DX and a Ripper with a spool motor. They all will go many more than 2 cases without relubing.

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by rkenders

I have a G3, G4, G5 and Threshy and none of them need to be lubed after every case. The G5 is the only one that is all stock. The rest have Techt bolts. I usually play 2 cases in a day of speedball. My guns are fine at the end of the day having never been relubed. I still take them apart and relube after a day of use, but I could go longer. The bolt stick issue is not lube related. I've used Hater, Monkey poo, oils, DOW 33, etc in my DP's and they all shoot fine with just about any lube. The bolt stick issue is due to o-ring fitment issues. I don't know if DP buys poorly sized o-rings and that's why so many people had bolt stick issues. My G4, new out of the box, wouldn't shoot. I had to replace all the o-rings and have never had a problem since. I suggest to anyone who has bolt stick problems to replace all the factory o-rings. I've "fixed" several sticking DP guns that way. I also have a Clone VX, Drone DX and a Ripper with a spool motor. They all will go many more than 2 cases without relubing.

That's impressive. You're only missing a revi. Out of dp spool valve line.

And I was thinking along the same lines. Most people aren't going to relube after every case it seems impractical and time consuming. The O-ring solution sounds very viable. I will check into that if I EVER have issues with a DP gun.

But to date. I havnt had any issues other than buying them used with broken solenoids most of the time. lol with the seller saying "it was working when I shipped it"... part of it. I guess lol

Solid guns for the most part. They don't seem overly popular on the Internet for some reason though. I may just be looking in the wrong places though. (:

[xmc1146]

its one of the most underrated gun out there. no one wants to shoot it cause its low end and so cheap. I guess 5 years from now ill be able to buy my kids their G3's for 50$ fully up.

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by xmc1146

its one of the most underrated gun out there. no one wants to shoot it cause its low end and so cheap. I guess 5 years from now ill be able to buy my kids their G3's for 50$ fully up.

Dangerous Power will probably have a "super gun" here in the next year or so. I would expect.Which in turn might bring the price of there older guns up.
Theyre working on something it seems seeing as theyve only produced a macroless g4 in the past year. or the"G5" whatever you want to call it.

As long as its a bad a** gun. I think it would give them a better out look from the higher end paintball community if they did so. Causing players to realize that these lower ends. Make for great back ups ,or are great for little siblings/kids getting into the sport.

[AoSpades]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Sweet. Now I'm curious as to how these effect efficiency. Lol does anybody know if there's like a "stupid question" part of this forum? I hate to keep bothering you guys with questions that most of the paintball population already knows.

I agree with aospades on doing both tests. Seeing as people love it when there are pods thrown everywhere. (if the bolt does make that big of a difference) It could be a selling point.

I also think it might be beneficial to non G-4 owners to see what a side by side efficiency test with a stock g4 bolt is. (More paint being thrown at a wall might amuse people) It would also be funny to watch the g4 stock bolt die like 3 minutes in. And the other bolt trucking on for the remainder of the video.

The setup on the gun for the efficiency test. Would everything be bone stock? Except for the bolt obviously, or would you change out the barrel to underbore (to get even greater efficiency gains) and mess with the settings on the board to get the very most out of the bolt.

Just my thoughts. I do realize this is more paint and more money. But might be worth it in the long run coupled with a web site with pictures ,and the efficiency test video on the site. (:

I've hit on the way I believe the test should be done earlier on in the original thread. This is what I was going to do with the bolt I received until I ran out of time as a tester because of locational issues. I still think it should be done this way with a quick general summary at the beginning for those people who don't have the time or patience to sit through all the shooting videos.


Test 1: All Stock
Test 2: TechT Engine, stock board
Test 3: Prototype, stock board
Test 4: Stock bolt, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers
Test 5: TechT Engine, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers
Test 6: Prototype, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers

Test results:

Efficiency
Consistency
Audibility

Other things to take into account are types of barrels used. paint matching, etc.

Winning

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by AoSpades

I've hit on the way I believe the test should be done earlier on in the original thread. This is what I was going to do with the bolt I received until I ran out of time as a tester because of locational issues. I still think it should be done this way with a quick general summary at the beginning for those people who don't have the time or patience to sit through all the shooting videos. Test 1: All Stock Test 2: TechT Engine, stock board Test 3: Prototype, stock board Test 4: Stock bolt, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers Test 5: TechT Engine, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers Test 6: Prototype, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers Test results: Efficiency Consistency Audibility Other things to take into account are types of barrels used. paint matching, etc. Winning

Paint matching and or under boring was one of my main concerns.
And figuring how many shots per cubic inch per thousand psi was another (: .
I do not care if it is figured on a 13/30 or a 68/45 as long as it's accurate.
But I like the way you would have set it up.

I didn't think about an after market board. And setting the dwells up perfectly.

[Deathwish_DW]

G series not being able to beat a G6R? Ha.

Test 1: All Stock (set to factory, 14? dwell? and psi)
Test 2: TechT Engine, stock board (using stock settings)
Test 3: Prototype, stock board (using stock settings)
Test 4: Stock bolt, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers
Test 5: TechT Engine, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers
Test 6: Prototype, aftermarket board to adjust dwell accordingly for best numbers

Math is easy do do.

I might do a full 68/45.. but I'd have to cool the tank and make sure it's full..

[AoSpades]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Paint matching and or under boring was one of my main concerns.
And figuring how many shots per cubic inch per thousand psi was another (: .
I do not care if it is figured on a 13/30 or a 68/45 as long as it's accurate.
But I like the way you would have set it up.

I didn't think about an after market board. And setting the dwells up perfectly.

It's the difference between a good shooter and a great shooter.

[Winning?]

Originally Posted by AoSpades

It's the difference between a good shooter and a great shooter.

Well yes. I thought the stock board could get close enough with dwells though? I most of the time leave my dwell bone stock for consistency.

[AoSpades]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Well yes. I thought the stock board could get close enough with dwells though? I most of the time leave my dwell bone stock for consistency.

When you bring the dwell down it increases efficiency but lowers consistency. Bring the dwell up it increases consistency and decreases efficiency. I like to find a nice balance between the two typically. But when I play speedball I play snake side so I like to have my marker set for consistency. However, when I play scenarios or have to go long periods without being able to get more air, I prefer a greater efficiency.




On another note, you must make this same type of bolt for the Rogue. I must have my rogue shooting like the G3. PLEASE

[rkenders]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Well yes. I thought the stock board could get close enough with dwells though? I most of the time leave my dwell bone stock for consistency.

The factory board will do fine. You can still set dwell on it to whatever you need. An OLED board just makes it easier to get to the setting. Admittedly my guns all have OLED boards in them if they are available, but that is only because I like to waste money on stuff that is cool, but doesn't make you a better player. I have dominated the paintball feild with an A5 before and lost with my Ripper. The gun and it's various accessories does not make you a better player. At most they just keep you from being hindered. Having said that I would still prefer to have equipment that is reliable, efficient, quiet and smooth shooting.

[firefoxx04]

Originally Posted by AoSpades

On another note, you must make this same type of bolt for the Rogue. I must have my rogue shooting like the G3. PLEASE

Off topic but my Rogue shot really smooth. And I own a Clone now and can still say that.


Efficiency, not so much.

[AoSpades]

Originally Posted by firefoxx04

Off topic but my Rogue shot really smooth. And I own a Clone now and can still say that.


Efficiency, not so much.

When I said shooting like the G3, I ment shooting like the G3 with this bolt in it.

[CA_Tectonics]

Originally Posted by Winning?

Ha! I honestly couldn't speak for him on that. (:
But I did not know you had to re lube a spool engine after ever case. Good to knowww.

Alright......exaggerated a little. Maybe not every case but the point is that in general, the spools need to be lubed much more often than poppets. Personally, I don't go much more than a case and a half before I relube. Most of the times I just do it real quick at lunch time and I don't have to worry about it.

[firefoxx04]

I grease my Spools after every case. My fusion and Alien, not so much but they are much more robust.


The clone I grease after every day of play.. usually no more than two cases. It does not need it but the more you take care of your gun the more it will take care of you. clean orings are happy orings!