Small Leak From Invasion Ram/Bolt

WildWayz · 02-08-2013, 11:17 AM

Thanks - will make sure the correct ones are on there.

The guy used Dye orings when he replaced them on the ASA... so it is a guess what size they are.

MstrKey · 02-08-2013, 02:36 PM

Ah yes........the old matrix oring kit coming to the rescue. I've been there many times....sometimes it works, sometimes not lol.

WildWayz · 02-08-2013, 03:23 PM

All fixed - it was me... pressure not turned up enough... did what some people suggested ie x from flush on the velocity and whammo - sealed nicely.
Did learn how to strip it down first and re-build it

shokertm · 02-08-2013, 04:04 PM

Don't dry fire poppits, It's not good for the ram or poppit..

Jack Rice · 02-08-2013, 05:39 PM

Not sure that's true...
The difference between a dry fire and shooting a ball is the ball holds some of the air back - the poppet closes before it can dump as much air.
Then the bad would be that a bottle of air will shoot many less shots.
Some boards have/had a dry shot mode that dropped the dwell, kept enough dwell that it would allow some air to escape.
At some trade shows I have put in pins for the poppet assembly that are very, very short - open maybe a 10th as much, but some air gets out.
As the "bad" for the rammer - I think there isn't a difference to the rammer. The bad would be that if you had enough air you could shoot thousands of shots and wear the breach, and just normal wear would increase - but a shot, is a shot, is a shot...

MstrKey · 02-09-2013, 04:01 PM

The most unhealthy part of dry firing is the beating you may get from people around you who are annoyed by the sound of constant shooting lol.

l1ryan1l · 02-09-2013, 10:45 PM

i had a similar leak once, but it turned out to be a hair in between the ram and ram housing

WildWayz · 02-12-2013, 05:18 AM

Hmmm it is still doing it... very very very minor when I air her up. As soon as I shoot one shot, no leak. Remove bottle, put it back on and very slight leak until the 1st shot again.

MOTORHEAD · 02-12-2013, 08:27 AM

^^^ Try taking the bolt out while the guns aired up, and put your finger over the hole that I assume has something to do with the sweep technology in the breech. What I thought was the leak between the ram and the ram housing turned out to be a worn down cup. Called Jack and ordered a new one that I am waiting on, but he said alternatively you could sand down the face of the old one.

Also, to verify this before sanding I would wrap some teflon tape around the face of the cup. It should stop the leak if it is coming from there, though obviously it won't hold when shooting.

WildWayz · 02-12-2013, 08:36 AM

I have about 500psi of air left in the bottle until I refill a week on Sunday (ps - was doing this when I had 3000psi in the bottle - so not a case of too little pressure to seal the bolt - but it will cause issues with further testing).

Do you have a photo of your cup seal so I can compare them?

As for orings, I only have the following:

BS004 Nitrile(70) 200-004 Ni70
BS005 Nitrile(70) 200-005 Ni70
BS006 Nitrile(70) 200-006 Ni70
BS007 Nitrile(70) 200-007 Ni70
BS008 Nitrile(70) 200-008 Ni70
BS009 Nitrile(70) 200-009 Ni70
BS010 Nitrile(70) 200-010 Ni70
BS011 Nitrile(70) 200-011 Ni70
BS012 Nitrile(70) 200-012 Ni70
BS013 Nitrile(70) 200-013 Ni70
BS014 Nitrile(70) 200-014 Ni70
BS015 Nitrile(70) 200-015 Ni70
BS016 Nitrile(70) 200-016 Ni70
BS017 Nitrile(70) 200-017 Ni70
BS018 Nitrile(70) 200-018 Ni70
BS019 Nitrile(70) 200-019 Ni70
BS020 Nitrile(70) 200-020 Ni70
BS021 Nitrile(70) 200-021 Ni70
BS610 Nitrile(70) 200-610 Ni70
BS611 Nitrile(70) 200-611 Ni70
BS801 Nitrile(70) 200-801 Ni70
BS802 Nitrile(70) 200-802 Ni70
BS803 Nitrile(70) 200-803 Ni70
BS804 Nitrile(70) 200-804 Ni70
BS806 Nitrile(70) 200-806 Ni70
2mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-2x1 Ni70
3mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-3x1 Ni70
4mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-4x1 Ni70
5mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-5x1 Ni70
8mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-8x1 Ni70
22mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-22x1 Ni70
23mm ID x 1mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-23x1 Ni70
10mm ID x 2mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-10x2 Ni70
14mm ID x 2mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-14x2 Ni70
15mm ID x 2mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA 200-15-2 Ni70

It is hard to get Orings over here - most places want you to order at least 50 :/

MOTORHEAD · 02-12-2013, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildWayz

I have about 500psi of air left in the bottle until I refill a week on Sunday (ps - was doing this when I had 3000psi in the bottle - so not a case of too little pressure to seal the bolt - but it will cause issues with further testing).

Do you have a photo of your cup seal so I can compare them?

The bolt itself doesn't seal on the Invasion, so the 500psi should be enough to test this. My only camera is a crap cell phone. Probably won't be high enough res to see anything useful.

My cup had an obvious groove where it was hitting the valve. I could both see it and feel it, and when I would cover the hole in the breech with the bolt removed the leak would stop. Your issue sounds similar.

If it is the cup that is causing the leak, you won't need to add or remove any orings. It is the small plastic(?) cup that is connected to the spring behind the LPR and has a stem that inserts through the cup valve through to the ram chamber.

WildWayz · 02-12-2013, 09:03 AM

I've emailed Jack to see if he'd knock up a repair kit for me ie orings, eyes, detents etc

As mentioned, I am in the UK and afaik, only one place sells Aliens (FS Paintball - and they charge $992!) and they don't carry spares.

I got this marker 2nd hand so no idea what it went through before, so I am thinking to just rebuild it all so it is 'new'.

MstrKey · 02-12-2013, 09:56 PM

This is why I don't like macroless guns. On an older alien you could break the gun down, air it up and spray around to find the exact spot of the leak. With macroless, you can't do that. :\

Still you can test if it's the cup seal or the ram easy enough. Turn the LPR to zero output. That will prevent any air from getting to the ram. Then air up the gun. If you hear a leak, it's not from the ram. It's from the cup seal or valve area.

Jack Rice · 02-12-2013, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MstrKey

This is why I don't like macroless guns. On an older alien you could break the gun down, air it up and spray around to find the exact spot of the leak. With macroless, you can't ...

Surprised to see you say that
You can do that with the Invasion - I have some good videos showing that

WildWayz · 02-13-2013, 06:17 AM

I took the marker apart, checked the cup seal and the face has no nicks or damage. I replaced the 2 015 orings and re-lubed them, but it slipped into the chamber VERY easily - no resistance at all... so maybe those 015 are more like 014?

Anyway, when I went to air it up again with the eye covers off, it was leaking a LOT more.

The LPR is about 1/2 turn in from flush - will screw it out to zero it tonight and retry that method...

James

WildWayz · 02-13-2013, 06:35 AM

HPR is turned in this much

LPR is turned in this much

MstrKey · 02-13-2013, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Rice

Surprised to see you say that
You can do that with the Invasion - I have some good videos showing that

Ok I just watched your tech video. I don't see how air will get from the grip frame into the ram if they're separated. On an indy, no problem.

Wild, did you change the valve orings? If the valve slipped in really easy then it will probably leak. It needs to be a fairly firm fit. You need tighter orings. I usually put dow 55 on my orings as well, so that they swell up and make an even better seal once the valve is in. I do this to all my poppet guns and it's worked great for me. See if your oring supply has something a tad larger or thicker.

WildWayz · 02-13-2013, 03:04 PM

Hi MstrKey - yeah I put 015's on there but they felt too easy to get on... tried some more 015s and they were FLOPPY. Went back to the originals and back to a very very very slight leak. I've now run out of air

Even my 015 poly's were floppy on it.. the originals feel stiffer. Probably 90s instead of Vanguards 70s.

PS - Invasions have no internal hoses.

Jack Rice · 02-13-2013, 05:18 PM

Get 14mm by 2mm - not 015 and you will be good to go

WildWayz · 02-14-2013, 01:45 AM

Thanks Jack - will try that!
Just got to get some air at the weekend.

WildWayz · 02-14-2013, 09:15 AM

Just an update.... i've sold the Alien to a guy who has owned many of them (including a Remains) - he is aware of the leak and will sort it.

In the mean time, i've ordered a NEW Alien from FS Paintball in the UK - so that will be with me tomorrow. It is all black and will go nicely with my new Shadow Barrel kit