[Legatus]

http://www.nwpr.org/post/firestorm-e...ducation-goals

I looked around but couldn't find a thread on this, so here goes.

As part of Virginia's waiver to opt out of mandates set out in the No Child Left Behind law, the state has created a controversial new set of education goals that are higher for white and Asian kids than for blacks, Latinos and students with disabilities.

Virginia Democratic state Sen. Donald McEachin first read about the state's new performance goals for schoolchildren in a newspaper editorial.

"And I was shocked to find that the state board of education [was] putting in place permanent disparities between different subgroups — Asians at the top, African-Americans at the bottom," says McEachin.

Here's what the Virginia state board of education actually did. It looked at students' test scores in reading and math and then proposed new passing rates. In math it set an acceptable passing rate at 82 percent for Asian students, 68 percent for whites, 52 percent for Latinos, 45 percent for blacks and 33 percent for kids with disabilities.

Alarmed by these numbers, McEachin and members of the Legislature's black caucus denounced the new policy as a "backwards-looking scheme."

"If we don't demand the best of our children, we won't receive the best," says McEachin.

At a meeting of the state board of education in late September, Patricia Wright, Virginia's superintendent of public instruction, defended the new policy.

"Rest assured, all of us hold all students to the same academic standards, but when it comes to measuring progress, we have to consider that students start at different points," Wright said.

In a phone interview with NPR, Wright explained that Virginia's expectation is that all students, regardless of race or ethnicity, will correctly answer the same number of questions to pass the state tests.

But the reality is that black and Latino children generally don't do as well as white and Asian children, and that gap, says Wright, is what the new policy is meant to address by setting more modest goals for struggling minority children and giving them more time to catch up.

"The concept here is that if indeed within six years we can close the achievement gap between the lowest- and highest-performing schools — at least cut it in half — that would be acceptable progress," says Wright.

At least one board member responded indignantly to accusations that the new policy harkens back to the era of segregation and Jim Crow. "We're not trying to go back to Jim Crow. What does that make us, Uncle Toms?" said Winsome Sears, one of three black board members at a meeting last month.

"So why do we have these different subgroups? Because we're starting with black children where they are. We can't start them at the 82 percentile because they're not there. The Asian students are there. And so the real question is why aren't black students starting at the 82 percentile? Why? Why are they not there?" Sears said.

That's the problem the board wants to solve, Sears said. Virginia devised the new policy after receiving a waiver from the U.S. Department of Education. Thirty-three states have received such waivers freeing them from what they call the unrealistic goal of the No Child Left Behind law — that all children perform at grade level by 2014.

But what Virginia has really done, critics argue, is institutionalize lower expectations for minority and disabled kids.

"Virginia has done something very, very wrong," says Amy Wilkins, with the Education Trust, a research group that advocates for closing the achievement gap.

"What Virginia said is, black kids in our state should achieve not at grade level but at the highest level that black kids have achieved in the past. That's not a forward-looking goal," Wilkins says. "That is not a goal that's going to ensure that black kids catch up with white kids or Latinos catch up with white kids or poor kids catch up with rich kids."

Wright disagrees but would not elaborate.

"Well, I really can't comment on Ed Trust's statement," says Wright.

In at least one other state — Florida — the NAACP has raised its concerns about new passing rates and performance goals for black and Latino students, although they don't appear to be as low as Virginia's.

Meanwhile, members of the Virginia Legislature's black caucus say they will consider filing a grievance with the U.S. Education Department before the policy is fully adopted.

I think socioeconomic status is what determines how well children do in school and not race. While it's probably true that black/latino kids are on average coming from lower income houses, I don't think racially segregating children is the right answer. If a black kid is adopted into an upper middle class white family as a baby, is he/she held to the same standard as black kids raised in the ghetto?

What do you guys think about this?

[Animal_Mother (Banned)]

I think we should just solve a lot of problems in our country by sending them back to Africa.

[Riley Coyote]

Have you ever been banned for racism on this site?

[Space Pope]

The race divides in education extend beyond socioeconomic status. Poor white students often outscore black students from high income areas. Economic factors are not a significant part of the problem, and the economic factors that due exist can be traced to cultural issues. It is most likely stemming from those cultural factors, and potentially even physiological differences.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by Space Pope

The race divides in education extend beyond socioeconomic status. Poor white students often outscore black students from high income areas. Economic factors are not a significant part of the problem, and the economic factors that due exist can be traced to cultural issues. It is most likely stemming from those cultural factors, and potentially even physiological differences.

This conflicts with progressive ideology. The hounds are coming.

[EPAPressure]

Eh, I dunno. I've seen Haitian immigrants who put their all into a subject and usually outdo most of the suburban white kids in classes. It's more of a "how bad do you want it" thing. Kids in the ghetto will never change, America's blacks are next to worthless at this point. All they do is breed more failure with each other, just like in the home land. If someone can show me 10 citites in the world that are 90+% black that are prosperous, filled with culture, low crime, and modern, I will paypal you $100. No srs, show me.

[Animal_Mother (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Riley Coyote

Have you ever been banned for racism on this site?

Nope. Don't even act like you think our country would be worse off if all the blacks were sent back to Africa

[Riley Coyote]

Really? That's ****ing incredible.

As far as your second statement is concerned, believe whatever you want dude.

[Animal_Mother (Banned)]

Originally Posted by EPAPressure

Eh, I dunno. I've seen Haitian immigrants who put their all into a subject and usually outdo most of the suburban white kids in classes. It's more of a "how bad do you want it" thing. Kids in the ghetto will never change, America's blacks are next to worthless at this point. All they do is breed more failure with each other, just like in the home land. If someone can show me 10 citites in the world that are 90+% black that are prosperous, filled with culture, low crime, and modern, I will paypal you $100. No srs, show me.

****, I'd be happy with 2-3 cities.

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by Animal_Mother

****, I'd be happy with 2-3 cities.

The big red writing in ur sig is a little disturbing, but I agree with your comment. Unfortunately a large majority of African American families have wrecked families and bad parenting. Others have it to, but I mean come on. Like 70% of African American mother births are in to poverty or with single parenthood.

In the words of psychologists everywhere.... Kids behavior and outcomes of prosperity or gangs, violence, uncaring attitude, death, etc starts with bad parenting

[EPAPressure]

In my city anyways, crime would almost be obsolete. Half of the city would now be open for business, and cheap real estate would now be open for gentrification. Good god what a dream come true that would be. Do we HAVE to ship blacks in the ghetto back to Africa? No, the same could be said about the rural parts of white counties around Atlanta, they're equally worthless in some aspects, and in some cases even worse. The problem is culture and the people who embrace the low integrity life style and enjoy government handouts.

[Umami]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

This conflicts with progressive ideology. The hounds are coming.

lol

Originally Posted by Space Pope

The race divides in education extend beyond socioeconomic status. Poor white students often outscore black students from high income areas. Economic factors are not a significant part of the problem, and the economic factors that due exist can be traced to cultural issues. It is most likely stemming from those cultural factors, and potentially even physiological differences.

Cultural? I might agree with that. Physiological? Don't make me laugh.

[Riley Coyote]

Originally Posted by Animal_Mother

****, I'd be happy with 2-3 cities.

Can you name 2-3 major cities in the US that are made up of 90+% African Americans?

[Iamamartianchurch]

The easiest way to fix our education system is to hold students at a grade till they understand the material. Those that do not, do not move to the next grade until they do. Pass or fail, no exceptions.

[Animal_Mother (Banned)]

He asked for worldwide cities. No city in the US has over 90% blacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._po pulations

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by Umami

lol



Cultural? I might agree with that. Physiological? Don't make me laugh.

I must be a seer.

[Riley Coyote]

Cities worldwide isn't relevant at all, unless he's overtly (or I guess, more overtly than he already would be) suggesting that he's genetically superior. I realize there isn't. The point was that asking for successful cities with such a high % of population is completely ludicrous.

edit: phones are annoying.

[Space Pope]

Originally Posted by Umami

lol


Cultural? I might agree with that. Physiological? Don't make me laugh.

You won't consider that genetic factors might effect the brain structure of an individuals, and that brain structure might effect the way they learn and retain information? Might these difference account for an education system effecting a person with a particular genetic background differently than another?

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

The easiest way to fix our education system is to hold students at a grade till they understand the material. Those that do not, do not move to the next grade until they do. Pass or fail, no exceptions.

That really throws a wrench in the "Everyone's performance is great, you are special and just as good as anyone else and deserve the same things everyone else does" model our current society like to use.

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

I must be a seer.

Indeed.

[Umami]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

The easiest way to fix our education system is to hold students at a grade till they understand the material. Those that do not, do not move to the next grade until they do. Pass or fail, no exceptions.

The problem with this - Republicans are hell-bent on punishing schools for poor student performance.

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

I must be a seer.

That or you have a basic understanding of neuroplasticity or brain development.

Originally Posted by Space Pope

You won't consider that genetic factors might effect the brain structure of an individuals, and that brain structure might effect the way they learn and retain information? Might these difference account for an education system effecting a person with a particular genetic background differently than another?

Oh I've entertained the thought before, and simply dismissed it. That position is not supported by the research or my personal experience.

If there is a difference, it's so small that it is completely overshadowed by the values taught to a child during their development (or not taught, depending on how you want to look at it). In the nature vs. nurture debate, I'm somewhere in the middle but definitely lean nurture. Environment has a HUGE impact on neural development, and that impact is only getting larger the more we learn about how the brain develops.

Originally Posted by Space Pope

That really throws a wrench in the "Everyone's performance is great, you are special and just as good as anyone else and deserve the same things everyone else does" model our current society like to use.

I vehemently disagree with this approach, btw.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by Umami

The problem with this - Republicans are hell-bent on punishing schools for poor student performance.



That or you have a basic understanding of neuroplasticity or brain development.

Are they? Well we have a fundamentally rotten philosophy anyway.

I try to ignore the brain. I am a sinner.

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

The easiest way to fix our education system is to hold students at a grade till they understand the material. Those that do not, do not move to the next grade until they do. Pass or fail, no exceptions.

This wouldn't solve anything.... Kids who want to understand the material try hard enough to move on.

All this would do is give kids even more reason to just stop showing up to school. The whole "this is stupid" mentality, which is where gangs come in.