Please Help!!!

lsutigerman22 · 08-05-2002, 08:19 AM

Ok. . .I have two cockers in my possession. One is mine(WGP vert feed) and the other is my brother's(STO). Neither one of the guns has worked correctly since we bought them. Both of the problems with the guns are similar in nature. We'll start with mine. Ok, when I chrono I have HORRIBLE consistancy as far as velocity goes. Let's say I shoot 6 balls through the chrono. This is what it would look like. . .267, 148, 210, 303, 178, 250. . .my question is what in the world would cause it to be SO FREAKING INCONSISTANT??? We have checked the reg and it works properly. We thought maybe it was the velocity screw so we put another one in and tried it but to no avail. It's a really long story as to why we thought it could be that so I won't bother you with it. It is not my tank(nitrogen) cuz we tried shooting it with other tanks and it did the same thing. The gun is timed perfectly. I think it has to be something internal. Any suggestions??
Ok, now my brother's gun. . .His shoots fine and fast. However, I have noticed that while playing with it, the velocity will just drop about 100fps during the course of the day. what causes such a drop in velocity? What can I do to fix it? I mean, I can only put the velocity screw in so much before it finally has to stop!
We bought both of these guns from the same store. The guys at the store have yet to fix the problem. Thanks for your help!!!

Ladd

lsutigerman22 · 08-05-2002, 08:23 AM

ok, I realize after reading my post that I called my cocker a "WGP vert feed". What I REALLY meant to say was WGP '02 cocker. ok now I feel better since I used better lingo. By the way, I've only owned a cocker for about 2 months so I'm DUMB when it comes to 'em. What I'm gonna do is print the posts out and bring them to my buddy who is a cocker guru. Thanks. . .sorry for my apparent lack of gun lingo.

blindsniper · 08-05-2002, 07:05 PM

I have the exact same problem you do on my new 2k2, i also posted here and no one has replied, so you can read my post below. I just wanted to let you know that this problem is not unique.

I have been playing this great sport for over a year now, and my first gun was a Tippmann Model 98, after a while i wanted to move up to a better gun, so i bought a 2k2 v/f bottomline Autococker as well as nitro. This was about two weeks ago, and a couple of days after i bought it i took it to my local fields airsmith to show me how to adjust the velocity and clean it, as this is my first cocker. He looked at it, dry fired and said that it was ok. So i took it home and fired a few shots. Most of the balls were getting jammed half in the bolt, and when they did shoot they would fly out at erratic angles. I assumed this was a problem with timing, so i took it back to my field to have them check it out again. After closer inspection, the airsmith said that this gun was broken, and suspected the regulator, and i should talk to WGP about getting it fixed with the warranty and such. Well i was at the field with my friends and didnt have a ride home so i just watched them play, and was talking to Nerobro who sometimes comes to my field, and he offered to take a look at it. After a couple of minutes he adjusted something, said that the ball detent was broken, and my gun was working great. So i got to play one game with it and then had to leave. The next weekend i went out to play again, i walked up to the chrono, and i was getting numbers like 326, 116, 243, etc. Obvioulsy i couldnt play like this and something was wrong. Being the cocker newbie i am, i had no idea what was wrong, and tried playing around with the velocity, to no avail. So i took my cocker to the airsmith again, and he said that the problem was probably with the regulator like he said before. So now i have a two week old cocker that has only worked for one game, and no idea what to do. I looked closer at the information that was shipped with my cocker and found the warranty registration card, the instuctions stated to have it postmarked within ten days of receiving the autococker, which of course was only a couple of days ago. So my dilema is this, what should i do? Do i still have a warranty at all? Or am i stuck with this defective autococker? If any of you have any ideas with whats wrong and if it could be fixed, or any advice about what to do, they would be appreciated.

lsutigerman22 · 08-05-2002, 09:53 PM

Man, to tell you the truth, I'm VERY DISAPPOINTED in the performance of my cocker and my brother's. I'm in no way talking down on cockers cuz hell I own one. I'm just disappointed cuz I know that 'cockers in general are better than what I'm experiencing. Apparently nobody knows what's going on with our guns. Did you look at the number of "views" we have on our threads and then how many people have replied? It seems to me that nobody knows what in the world is wrong. Everybody told me to check the same things as you and all of them came back fine. It has to be something internal. I sent an email to WGP and Rob Orr sent me one back. He said a tech was supposed to get in touch w/me by Thursday of last week. . .I haven't talked to any techs. I know I made the right decision when I bought my 'cocker. I have no doubt. However, it is very discouraging when the thing will not work correctly and I can't find anybody who knows how to fix it.

blindsniper · 08-05-2002, 10:16 PM

When i bought my cocker, i was expecting the highest in quality. While i had heard people saying that cockers were high maintenance and needed alot of tinkering, that was ok. What i wasnt expecting was my gun not to work period. I chose this gun over an Impulse and several other guns in that price range, and now i find myself regretting it. I hope that this all gets resolved and i dont end up regretting it in the long run.

While i havent contacted WGP yet, i probably will soon. One of my biggest worries is them having horrible customer service and just blowing me off, which of course screws me over. If they do blow me off im not sure theres anything i can do except bi*ch about it. Also im only 15 and i dont have a job, so i had to save up for a long time to buy this gun, so this is no small investment for me. I hope WGP can turn this whole experience around and restore my faith in them.

vantrepes · 08-05-2002, 10:28 PM

Could be a few things:
Bad paint
Bad paint to barrel match
Dry internals (put some oil in the ASA, and shoot it out without the barrel on)
Bad springs
Timing
Incorect reg setting

e-mail me, and we can go over them all one at a time.
vantrepes@bluefrognet.net

blindsniper · 08-05-2002, 10:33 PM

Well i can rule out several of those:

The paint is brand new big ball, and i used it the other day with no probs.

I oil my gun after every use.

The gun was timed by Nerobro who is a mod and knows what hes doing, and worked fine for a day.

And i have a stock reg which i dont believe is adjustable, and again it worked fine for one day, so i dont know.

That leaves springs which i have no idea about, but the weird thing is the gun worked fine for a day and then when i next used it it crapped out.

lsutigerman22 · 08-06-2002, 08:19 AM

well, we speculated that it could be the paint that I was shooting. So, I started buying the expensive stuff. Same trouble. We speculated also that it could be the barrel to gun match. We put a freak on it and still had the same trouble. I've had my reg checked several times and it came back all clear everytime. I take good care of my gun despite the fact that it doesn't work correctly. So, I oil it and such. I don't oil it after every use, cuz I don't want to over do it. t's somethig internal. I agree that bad paint would cause inconsistant velocity. . but to cause such a DRAMATIC decrease and increase from shot to shot is unlikely. Especially since I'm shooting good paint now. I'm callin WGP today to talk to one of their techs. I've had almost enough. Blindsniper, I'll hollar at 'em and I'll email you the number when I find something out. They're pretty good w/customer service.

lsutigerman22 · 08-06-2002, 08:25 AM

"We speculated also that it could be the barrel to gun match."

I meant barrel to paint. . .

harpo568 (Banned) · 08-06-2002, 10:09 AM

yeah it can all be frustrating...
a couple of things you should try before just giving up on your guns...first of all have you "sweet spotted" your regulator?it is adjustable...you have to unscrew the bottom cap to do it.
Vantrepes has a great article on his site about doing just eactly that...
next it looks to me like the problem could be in your valves...stock valves just don't flow well enough...
give those 2 things a try.
I work with 2 cocker EXPERTS and I'll ask them about this and see what they have to say...might be the first of the week before I have any kind of suggestions for you but from what I see here it's probably a combination of either your gun getting gas starved because the regulator isn't sweet spotted or the valve is getting too much gas and is being prematurely slammed shut because of too much pressure.Either way you are going to have some serious consistancy problems.

Dev · 08-06-2002, 09:19 PM

the problem your brother is having is that the IVG is not staying. very simple, replace the o-ring on the velocity screw. The velocity should not drop. About your velocity problems, try to let somebody to loan you a reg for a few minutes and set it up. I have a feeling its just a bad reg. If it is bad, it can be rebuilt (pain in the a**) or buy a new adjustable one.

harpo568 (Banned) · 08-06-2002, 11:29 PM

JEEZE!!!of all the simple stupid things for me to forget!thanks for mentioning it Dev...just totally slipped my mind...

lsutigerman22 · 08-07-2002, 08:44 PM

This is the email I sent to Rob Orr and his reply. . .Sent by: Rob

Orr <rob@worr.com>
To: "'rturne6@lsu.edu'" <rturne6@lsu.edu>
cc:
Subject: RE: I don't know what to do and am very displeased!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Duckworth
To: rob@worr.com
Sent: 7/30/2002 9:08 AM
Subject: Fw: I don't know what to do and am very displeased!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L Turner" <rturne6@lsu.edu>
To: <info@worr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:16 AM
Subject: I don't know what to do and am very displeased!!!

Good morning,
I purchased my first WGP autococker about a 2 months ago. In that time I have become extremely disgusted with my gun. It has not worked correctly since I bought it. I do not tweak it. The guy from the store said,"if it works don't try to fix it". Well, the thing hasn't worked a full day yet. I have taken it to the store several times and they say they can't find anything wrong with it or if they did they say they fixed it. Our field 'cocker guru has no idea what is wrong with it and his best explanation is that it is a lemon. I find that unacceptable. For the amount of money that we spend on these products there should be no lemons. I ate canned tuna for a solid month so I could save up and buy my cocker. So, you can see why I might be a little more perturbed than the usual disgruntled customer. Let me try to explain what is going on with the gun. . .1st problem. . .when I chrono my gun, it'll go from say 290-210-195-275 and etc. it jumps around so bad. well I took it to the store that I bought it from and they said they had fixed it. Well I went to chrono sunday and it was shooting low. . .around 210 consistently. So, I cranked it up and
got it to 280. whats happens next totally confuses me. I shoot about 5-6 balls quickly and the velocity DROPS DRAMATICALLY. I'm talkin in the 180's and it stays there consistently. Not only that but my back block will stick in the back position. I'll have to pull the trigger forward towards the muzzle of the gun in order for it to release. It has plenty of cocking pressure. the back block pops back plenty hard and fast enough to cock the gun. It is timed correctly also. I know my description of my problem may seem vague or confusing, but the gun acts a little differently EVERYTIME. This is my 1st 'cocker and I am VERY displeased thus far. I always held autocockers in the highest regard. Now my opinion of the marker slowly dwindles. I'm almost to the point of taking everybody else's advice. . .just say "screw it" and buy a Timmy or an angel. Anyways, that's my spill. Y'all take care!

See ya in the middle,
Ladd #15

Robert,
Your best bet is to call our tech line or send the marker back to us so
we can find the problem. I am going to forward your e-mail to someone and
they will contact you. Let me know if you do not heasr from someone by end
of day Thursday. I am sorry you have had problems and you are correct the
Lemon excuse is unacceptable. We will take care of you. The person I am
refering you to is Ken (I deleted the phone# for privacy's sake)Good luck.

Robert Orr

Ok, This was last Wed. I HAVE HEARD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM ANYBODY AT WGP!!!! It's a week later and I have heard nothing. I have called Ken 5 times and left 3 messages. . .Ken has not called me back or replied to my email. I sent Rob an email telling him that I haven't heard anything and he has not responded yet. Maybe how they are handling this is a good indication of why my gun doesn't work. They don't give a d@mn!

Today, I took the gun to the store from wich I bought it. I sat right next to the tech the entire time he worked on my gun and tested it. He checked my reg. . .mine is fine and dandy. . .just to be sure he put a BRAND NEW one on it. . .velocity is sitll everywhere. He changed out my velocity screw. . .still not working correctly. . .He then took the entire gun apart and checked every part for a flaw. He found none. I'm almost to the point of giving up. . .Up until now I have stood behind my choice in gun, but now I'm starting to doubt myself. WHAT DO I DO?????????

harpo568 (Banned) · 08-07-2002, 10:20 PM

man I have NEVER heard of anyone at WGP blowing any customer off...If I were you I'd get the main number for customer service and call and raise holy hell every day until they do take care of you...then again it may just be that they are swamped right now because it is tourney season and there are a lot of trade shows going on too and occasionally someone gets missed...for the most part it's not intentional it just happens,but most good companies will take care of you.

WGP CUSTOMER SERVICE:1-800-755-5061

call them again and ask to talk to someone else...and keep doing it until you get someone on the phone that is willing to help you not just pass you on.
if that doesn't work...well if enough people call them in support of you and your problem I think that they will do something to get you taken care of.

RgeSpirit14879 · 08-07-2002, 10:56 PM

I have been blown off by WGP too, I had to send in my hinge to get a spring replaced, (A simple mod that any cocker techy can do), well they said that they could not send me the spring via the mail or anything, that I had to send the marker in. Okay, so I had a tourney coming up in a week, and I sent the marker the fastest air mail that could be sent to them with a letter saying that I needed the cocker back and ASAP, and I empisized it many times. I also stated that I would pay for return shipping.

Well... the day of the tourney rolls around, and I am stuck using my backup. No cocker! I called and talked to the person in charge, and they did not even apologize to me and made excuses!!!!!! Well, you could imagine that I was mad, and I could have ripped that lady's head off. (I was nice and didn't) But, they have terrible customer service, anytime I do anyhting to my cocker that even deals with WGP, I call and e-mail and they still are slow and irritable as malasses(sp).

blindsniper · 08-08-2002, 02:18 AM

Now im really beginning to get worried, since no one has posted backing up WGP customer service, and up till now i always believed that they would help me, but now im not so sure. Anyways, ill call them tomorrow probably and ill tell you guys how it went........
well wish me luck,
Brian

vantrepes · 08-08-2002, 07:17 AM

The few times I have had to deal with WGP directly, they have been fast and helpful. I think you just fell through a crack on this one.

lsutigerman22 · 08-08-2002, 01:04 PM

Ok. . .I sent an email to Rob this morning explaining my apparent discontent with the way I'm being treated as a customer. I also called the Customer service# several times and nobody even picked up the phone. I had to connect to the sales dept. in order to talk to somebody. By this time I'm really pissed. I told the lady what I was told by Rob and that I haven't heard ANYTHING. She got my phone number and that was it. She didn't say what she was gonna do with it. I tried calling Ken again this morning and I got his voice mail again. I'll give them one more day and I'm gonna be raising 9 KINDS OF HOLY HELL!!!! There is no excuse for this.

blindsniper · 08-08-2002, 01:07 PM

Well i called WGP today in regards to my brand new and broken autococker, and there was no one there to talk no. No operator, no one in sales, not even a message machine. The place is deserted. I was just routed around in circles from ringing phone to ringing phone. I am utterly disgusted, and am at a loss for words. I find myself joining the ranks of those who bash autocockers, because frankly this is unacceptable for a company to first of all produce a faulty product but to then disavow their customer who placed their faith and their money in this company. I just wish id bought an impulse or an automag like my friends suggested. Ive never heard of anyone having a problem with Tom Kaye or Smart Parts, and when there is a problem they work hard to correct it, the same can not be said WGP.

harpo568 (Banned) · 08-08-2002, 01:39 PM

first of all it depends on what time you called..you really need to wait until around 11 or after PACIFIC time which is 1 Central time...try it again would be my suggestion

RgeSpirit14879 · 08-09-2002, 11:29 PM

As much as I was dissapointed, but to explain to all of you. Wouldn't the whole staff be at the IAO??? Wait untill next week before you guys blow a gasket.